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Outdoor Free Flight Forum => Power => Topic started by: ScienceGuy on August 04, 2017, 10:11:02 AM

Title: PeeWee 30 - Basic Yeller
Post by: ScienceGuy on August 04, 2017, 10:11:02 AM
Pictures and short video: http://scienceguyorg.blogspot.com/2017/08/basic-yeller-peewee-30-free-flight.html (http://scienceguyorg.blogspot.com/2017/08/basic-yeller-peewee-30-free-flight.html)

Building from plans instead of a laser-cut kit seemed like a lot of work but it went pretty well. The structure of this plane is really thought out well with many diagonal pieces in the wing and stab. Finished airplane came out exactly at the minimum weight of 100 grams. For most of the adhesive I tried using Titebond glue using a glue syringe, this worked pretty well for more accurately applying the glue compared to squeezing it out of a tube of Duco.

This was the first glow engine model for me in a long time; I did have a couple of PeeWee engines but obtained one with hole for fuel line drilled in the tank. Engine run time is controlled by using an eye dropper fuel tank, getting consistent run time I need to work on. DT system is a fuse which I have little experience with. Cleaning up the mess afterwards was not something I had missed but it isn’t too bad.

When the model was pretty much complete I gave it some test glides from a small hill, the glide looked really good.  I started the engine a few times and tested the fuse DT; I need more experience lighting a fuse. At the first Minnesota free flight contest, I decided to start it up and give it a launch. Darn it climbed out nicely, the glide stalled pretty bad.

There is a PeeWee30 event on the last day of the Nats but I thought I better do some test flights before the day of the event. I shimmed wing on the side to create a tilt for glide, this appeared to help the glide but might not be perfect yet. On the first runs I used 10% nitro but I switched to 25%, this helped the climb and the motor was far from lean.  It climbed to a good height on first test flights, and took a long time coming down. The first good flight went half way across the field and landed next to the blacktop, when I retrieved it the stab was down. For the next flight I made darn sure the fuse was lit before launching. What little wind there was had switched and it was gliding towards the RC soaring area. Just at the edge of where they were flying it came down by DT.

Contest day started out windy so I decided to head for home. I was satisfied that I had built the model pretty well and the trim was close to right.

Bill Kuhl

Title: Re: PeeWee 30 - Basic Yeller
Post by: flydean1 on August 04, 2017, 04:11:09 PM

Get rid of fuses.  More trouble than they're worth.  Use some sort of viscous rotating timer from FAI Model Supply, or better yet, one of The very light Texas Timers DT units.  Your DT issues will be over.  Just remember to wind the thing, and trip it as well.

Title: Re: PeeWee 30 - Basic Yeller
Post by: ScienceGuy on August 04, 2017, 04:20:55 PM
I just looked at the rules and that is certainly allowed, I built just like the plans.  Sure something to think about. Some people seem to like fuse but I am not one of them.

Bill Kuhl

Title: Re: PeeWee 30 - Basic Yeller
Post by: applehoney on August 04, 2017, 07:27:57 PM
>Get rid of fuses.

Each to their own.    I've used fuses for about 70 years.   In that time I've also tried viscous, bandburner, tomy and other clockwork systems. Other than clockwork d/t timers for gliders I've abandoned them all.   At least a fuse gets lighter as it burns.....  ;D

Title: Re: PeeWee 30 - Basic Yeller
Post by: TRuss on August 05, 2017, 10:54:57 AM
Judging from what I've seen in my short time in Free Flight is that DT timers along with most everything else is a matter of preference.  Good arguments for and against can be made for most anything, both good and bad stories are told about most anything.  It just depends on what you like.  I'm still working out what I like, and when I find it I'll stick to it.  I've just been going through this, this week.  I decided to try a new process of boxing my fuselage sides, even though I have developed my own way that has been working pretty good.  After several days of frustration and several redos I went back to the way that I know has worked for me, and so far so good.  I still have some cross pieces to go, but it's definitely looking better at this point.  I didn't even make it to this point the other way.  Someone else might hate my way though, and have struggles with what I do.  You just have to experiment.  Definitely listen and take the advice you're given seriously, but ultimately it's down to what works for you.

Title: Re: PeeWee 30 - Basic Yeller
Post by: danberry on August 05, 2017, 02:20:12 PM
Well, Charlie Caton uses fuse DTs on his bunter Gas planes. You could find a better gas flier than Charlie but,......
oh wait. I forgot. You can't find a better Gas flier than him.
Find a system and make it work.
A side note: fuses on ROW planes have an inherent problem.

Title: Re: PeeWee 30 - Basic Yeller
Post by: skycafe on August 05, 2017, 03:04:10 PM
A side note: fuses on ROW planes have an inherent problem.

That gave me a chuckle! 

Regarding the fuse vs. timer for DT, remember to make a check list for the plane.  Be methodical in making the list, and always consult the list as you assemble and prepare the plane for flight.   Laminate the list, keep it with the model.  Even when you have done it all so many times that you feel you could do it in your sleep, continue to follow your check list.  Adapt the list if need be.  By that I mean, add steps if needed, but don't take any away.  Make the list perfect, and follow it perfectly.

Don't ever forget to have fun too, but I think you know that.

Title: Re: PeeWee 30 - Basic Yeller
Post by: Hepcat on August 05, 2017, 07:30:45 PM
I have used pneumatic timers, fuzes, clockwork from Tomy toys, and viscous dampers, but now Jim has mentioned the fact I think that fuzes are the most reliable.  One of the problems is that they are so simple that people rig something without much thought.  Consider the hooks or pegs that hold the band to be burnt, think of the band to be burnt and how the fuze will pass through this band and into the snuffer. It is not surprising that the first D/Ts were usually tipping tail and therefore also not surprising that the fuze was neatly put at the end of the fuselage.  What is surprising is that many modellers kept their fuses there for many years where it was difficult to see, easy to knock the fin or tailplane and almost impossible to light without two people.  When the fuze was moved to be under the wing using a fuze was much easier.
Then there is the matter of lighting the fuze. A cigarette perhaps if you still smoke, a cigarette lighter if you don’t mind burning the model occasionally, matches, ditto, a lighter specially made for lighting fuzes which never works.   The correct safe and efficient way is a piece of lit fuse which you press on the fuze to be lit.  This was difficult for English modellers to accept because it is built into  our DNA not to spend a penny if a halfpenny will do.  Bur seriously one must not be parsimonious. The fuze that is going to light the fuze on the model should be burning before the model is even wound.  What lots of modellers do is to get a tin box, about the size of a jacket pocket and make a hole in the side just large enough for the fuze to pass through.  Several feet of fuze are looped together and put in the box and one end of the fuze is pulled out of the hole and lit, and stays lit until the model is launched.
A thought just crossed my mind.  There is a lot of concern about fuses causing fires but modern model aeroplanes seem to be chock full of batteries. I am not very technical but isn’t there some relationship between electricity and heat?

Title: Re: PeeWee 30 - Basic Yeller
Post by: ScienceGuy on August 07, 2017, 12:02:00 PM
My issue with fuse is just have not had enough experience working with it yet. I am not just sure when to know it is lit. When you see smoke coming from it do you know it is going to stay lit?

I was using electric lighter and I think the connection with the batteries might have been questionable. Took the batteries out, scraped the ends and then it glowed really bright.  Hank Nystrom said the plasma lighters work good.

With the PeeWee 30 it is neat that the plane is lower tech, there is a charm to it.

Bill Kuhl

Title: Re: PeeWee 30 - Basic Yeller
Post by: danberry on August 07, 2017, 08:02:43 PM
The fuse glows orange when it is lit.

Title: Re: PeeWee 30 - Basic Yeller
Post by: ScienceGuy on August 16, 2017, 10:05:57 AM
I flew the Basic Yeller at MMAC contest and the DT worked everytime, used one of those plasma lighters to light the fuse and made sure I saw red.

http://scienceguyorg.blogspot.com/2017/08/mmac-free-flight-contest-north-branch.html (http://scienceguyorg.blogspot.com/2017/08/mmac-free-flight-contest-north-branch.html) 

Bill Kuhl

Title: Re: PeeWee 30 - Basic Yeller
Post by: Skinnyone on September 02, 2017, 04:53:43 PM
I have had great success with fuses, I make my own fuses from cotton  rope commonly found in building or boating stores. I then make a mixture of salt petre  (potassium nitrate), found in chemists/pharmacist, and warm water. About 1 - 2 teaspoons in 50 - 100ml of water, something to remember is that the more concentrated the mix is the faster the burn.

Soak short lengths of about 30cm length in this mix until it is saturated fully, then simply hang up to dry. Once dry I then cut a length (2.5cm/1in) and time the burn, I aim for a burn of about a minute for this length, if it is too slow then add more salt petre to the mix and repeat the soak and dry and test burn process. If too fast then simply time a longer piece...

The salt petre keeps the rope burning and can alter the speed of burn as I mentioned above.

As has been mentioned always be on  the lookout for other things on your plane that can be burnt by the fuse...I was testing a new model and the tail had a light cable as it's stop from tipping too far, the fuse burnt through the rubber band and the cable that stops and ultimately prevents the tailplane from falling off, needless to say the plane needed some (luckily minor) repairs after that DT.