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Outdoor Free Flight Forum => Power => Topic started by: Duncan McBride on January 17, 2018, 11:10:39 AM



Title: Tee Dee .020 for payload
Post by: Duncan McBride on January 17, 2018, 11:10:39 AM
At the KOI Denny Dock didn't get much (any) competition in Payload, so we have to do something.  I got a Tee Dee .020 on the interweb.  Plan to use a Texas Timer Micro for fuel shutoff.  I don't particularly like the plastic tank the engine comes with and would maybe go with the plastic mount.  Is there a remote tank that suits the .020 for a ship like a payload?  Pressure?  Those little balloon things?  I'm in new territory here.  Thanks.


Title: Re: Tee Dee .020 for payload
Post by: flydean1 on January 17, 2018, 01:04:02 PM
Duncan,

Get rid of the plastic tank and backplate.  Bob Mattes markets aluminum backplates which seal better and pack the case better.  In fact, you may want to avail yourself of his total .020 rework.  His web address is on the NFFS directory.

Definitely pressure.  Ace Hardware and others stock "Little Red Caps" in their paint department.  They are used to seal glue/caulk tubes after partial use.  It's in their catalog if they don't stock them.  Bob will also sell you some, but they are readily available locally.  Really cheap and less pressure than bladders, a bit more than a balloon.  Good for anything up to a .40!!!

Micro is the lightest and best timer.  Add a viscous timer for DT.  Avoid fuses.  Look on Texas web site for how to incorporate viscous with Micro.

Use the spring starter to avoid hydro-locking and bending the rod.  Really easy with a bladder.  Thumb on fuel line, port-prime, blow thru exhaust ports, back-wind spring 1-1/2 turns, release thumb pressure when it lights off.

Hopefully, Dan Berry will chime in on plane design.


Title: Re: Tee Dee .020 for payload
Post by: danberry on January 17, 2018, 07:34:32 PM
I run a clown balloon.
355 pop, 20% all castor fuel.
Plastic backplate mount. Micro timer, fuse DT.
hand start.


Title: Re: Tee Dee .020 for payload
Post by: danberry on January 17, 2018, 09:06:07 PM
The reason for the clown balloon? I do not have a tank that will not leak and a pen bladder is too much pressure and won't needle.


Title: Re: Tee Dee .020 for payload
Post by: Duncan McBride on January 17, 2018, 09:19:54 PM
All right, thanks!  I emailed Bob Mattes, his web site says he isn't reworking .020s now.  I'll see what he says.  Dean, thanks for the rundown on starting, I was wondering how to manage pressure from a bladder or balloon.  

Dan, it sounds like I could experiment with the stock Tee Dee to get a little more experience before investing in rework, assuming it's available.   Here's hoping you found your Payload model after that flyaway at the Nats.  I would be happy to bring a plane that flies anywhere near that well. 

So, what's a good Payload design?  I was thinking of scavenging the E36 wrecks for a wing and stab.  200 sq in?


Title: Re: Tee Dee .020 for payload
Post by: Starduster on January 18, 2018, 07:14:49 AM
Duncan: Check you're PM's!


Title: Re: Tee Dee .020 for payload
Post by: ddock on January 18, 2018, 08:32:52 AM
Duncan, Glad your considering Payload. My dad flew a Patriot  by Harry Murphy for years. Good design. Bob Stalic published a modified Spacer in Model Builder years ago. That is where I got my idea for using a 1/2a Zeek wing and Tail and building a fuselage to hold the dummy. I would think any of your e-36 parts would be fine. Rules for the dummy and fuselage requirements  are on the nffs site.
I use a standard TD, suction,40%, old Tatone timer and fuse DT. Keep the needle valve clean, head tight, good engine runs and you will be just fine.
Denny


Title: Re: Tee Dee .020 for payload
Post by: Duncan McBride on January 18, 2018, 10:54:23 AM
Thanks Denny,
Where was this forum when I was thirteen years old?  This is great.  If you're running suction, are you using the stock plastic tank?  The one on my Tee Dee is warped so the back is not flat.  The mounting holes sit off the firewall and I'm afraid if I tighten things up it will break, or leak.  But running without pressure seems simpler to an electric flyer like me, so I'll probably start there.

You know, I even have an old Zeek wing.  Onward!


Title: Re: Tee Dee .020 for payload
Post by: NormF on January 18, 2018, 12:56:56 PM

It looks like stock TD 020 tank parts are available. The plastic backplate (only) https://coxengines.ca/cox-020/ (https://coxengines.ca/cox-020/), the whole tank assembly https://www.ebay.com/itm/COX-ENGINE-020-020-TD-Tee-Dee-fuel-Tank-complete-from-MECOA-K-B-69-c0201/272044481797?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D44040%26meid%3Dbd8c143e33e346f4b5692214138497e8%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D332520625376&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1

Also Kevin Sherman was making an aluminum tank, an improved copy of Sal Taibi's tank mount, you could check with Kevin.

Norm Furutani



Thanks Denny,
Where was this forum when I was thirteen years old?  This is great.  If you're running suction, are you using the stock plastic tank?  The one on my Tee Dee is warped so the back is not flat.  The mounting holes sit off the firewall and I'm afraid if I tighten things up it will break, or leak.  But running without pressure seems simpler to an electric flyer like me, so I'll probably start there.

You know, I even have an old Zeek wing.  Onward!


Title: Re: Tee Dee .020 for payload
Post by: danberry on January 18, 2018, 06:42:00 PM
I run a stock engine. Pressure isn't real hard to learn.

I got the plane back and was 2 minutes too late for a second flight. When I got to it it was 15 ft up but I didn't have a pole. The time it took to get a pole and come back cost me. Ah well.


Title: Re: Tee Dee .020 for payload
Post by: newg4ff on January 19, 2018, 12:09:17 PM
I used Denny Davis's Mini PAAgan in the TD .020 era.  Of five nationals I got three 3rds, one 1st and a national record which stood until they changed the rules.  I have a ton of printed copies for the taking.


Title: Re: Tee Dee .020 for payload
Post by: flydean1 on January 19, 2018, 03:14:24 PM
Duncan,

Pressure...  Suction is NOT simpler.  Denny is luring you into a dark corner.  The old football coach is very sneaky in that regard.  He is not called the PayMaster for nothing.

Uneven engine runs, inconsistent needle settings, all await you with suction feed.  Even on a ROG, the model will accelerate enough to sometimes lean out the engine producing the much-lamented lean sag.

Ask Bob Mattes if he has any of the radial mounts he was marketing.  That by itself is a major improvement over the stock backplate.  Maybe the guy who is making the Taibi tanks will make you a mount.

Use the balloon system for low pressure per Dan Berry, or the Little Red Caps from ACE Hardware.  Use the Cox starter spring.  It's easy, and you will be glad you did.

Say to yourself..."pressure is my friend, pressure is my friend, pressure is my friend".


Title: Re: Tee Dee .020 for payload
Post by: ddock on January 19, 2018, 09:52:47 PM
I have never tried a red cap with a standard Td needle valve. Fine thread .020 needle valves are hard to find.


Title: Re: Tee Dee .020 for payload
Post by: flydean1 on January 20, 2018, 04:21:47 AM
Denny, keep using suction feed so that Duncan and the rest of us have a chance. :)


Title: Re: Tee Dee .020 for payload
Post by: Starduster on January 20, 2018, 09:44:00 AM
So, Duncan...

Now that you've gotten the Payload (or is it PAALoad?) bug, I wonder... how much longer before we see you flying Cargo?

Rich


Title: Re: Tee Dee .020 for payload
Post by: rudy10945 on February 26, 2018, 06:50:33 PM
I just happened across this thread. I fly both Payload and Cargo.
Duncan, if you want to really get into Payload, get an alumni m mount from Mattes and use a Balloon or Red Cap
for a tank.  I would really be happy to see someone flying Payload and Cargo for that matter.  Also, Denny and I both
fly 1/2A Nostalgia PAA Load.  Another event where additional flyers would be welcome.  Rules are on the NFFS  website.
1/2Anostalgia PAA Load uses nostalgia legal engines like Cox Medallins - you can use a stock motor and get
competitive performance.  Check out Bb Holman's website for the Payhopper. An xcellent performing PAA Load design.


Title: Re: Tee Dee .020 for payload
Post by: danberry on February 26, 2018, 10:15:09 PM
Rudy! You were missed at the nats. Many were worried about you.
!/2A Paa load could get me going if I find time to build it. I have a spare wenMac........


Title: Re: Tee Dee .020 for payload
Post by: rudy10945 on February 28, 2018, 06:10:25 PM

Hi Dan,  I expect to be at the Nat's with bells on this year.  What kind of bribe does it take to get you to build a Nos PAA Load ?  There are several good choices.
Rudy


Title: Re: Tee Dee .020 for payload
Post by: danberry on February 28, 2018, 08:08:05 PM

Hi Dan,  I expect to be at the Nat's with bells on this year.  What kind of bribe does it take to get you to build a Nos PAA Load ?  There are several good choices.
Rudy

Most guys bribe me with beer.
Time is an issue. Lots going on right now.
I have several things on the plate to do before PAA Load. But I do have the engine.


Title: Re: Tee Dee .020 for payload
Post by: Steve J. on March 04, 2018, 11:42:14 AM
These are nice.
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?3039268-Cox-Tee-Dee-010-and-020-Aluminum-Backplates (https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?3039268-Cox-Tee-Dee-010-and-020-Aluminum-Backplates)


Title: Re: Tee Dee .020 for payload
Post by: Duncan McBride on March 04, 2018, 02:40:31 PM
Thanks to everyone for the suggestions.  I need to get on it.  I'm thinking now of using a Super Pearl 202e wing and stab.  Could call it a Pearlload.  Has that been take already?


Title: Re: Tee Dee .020 for payload
Post by: flydean1 on March 04, 2018, 10:33:02 PM
I'm working on the same combo with the same name.  I have a drawing of a Super Guppy with the Pearl logo,


Title: Re: Tee Dee .020 for payload
Post by: ddock on March 05, 2018, 08:50:54 PM
Lil Goliath Payload plan on e-bay... ;D
Denny


Title: Re: Tee Dee .020 for payload
Post by: flydean1 on April 09, 2018, 12:00:17 PM
Any progress on the PayLoad projects? I've been on the search for mag articles and find them rather rare.
 
Somewhere, there was one that spent a lot of time on the location of the main gear.  I think is was in MAN somewhere between 1959 & 1961.  Also Sympo articles don't seem to have any.

Successful Pee Wee 30 experience would help, I think.


Title: Re: Tee Dee .020 for payload
Post by: Duncan McBride on April 20, 2018, 09:07:52 AM
Some progress.  I built a fuselage that kept the same moments as the Pearl 202e (thanks Don!)  It has a little cabin and door for the little 1 ounce guy.  Conventional gear, just ahead of the CG to minimize groundloop tendency, theoretically.  Hasn't flown yet, I'm still figuring out internal combustion with Bob Whitney's expert help and a bunch of nitro-sniffing kibitzers at Palm Bay (Hi guys!).  We have the Tee Dee running on pressure using the red cap.  One question for those who have used these, do you cut them down or use the whole thing?  I cut one down and there is plenty of fuel for a regular flight, but I noticed that when the fuel gets a little low and the pressure falls off, the engine will quit.  I'm wondering if using the whole red cap would give a longer period of time where the pressure is steady.  And whether that is really necessary.   Thanks, everybody.


Title: Re: Tee Dee .020 for payload
Post by: flydean1 on April 21, 2018, 05:45:43 PM
On an .020 I would use just the last "bulb" before the end.  Plenty of fuel, just de-fuel and re-fuel between flights.  I think we used 2cc of fuel.  This on my grandson's T-Bird that won Jr. 1/2A Gas two years running.