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General Forum => In the Work Shop => Topic started by: Jack Plane on November 30, 2018, 06:03:26 AM



Title: When spraying...
Post by: Jack Plane on November 30, 2018, 06:03:26 AM
... do you use a spray-booth?

I intend to spray acrylics only and have found two options:

https://www.everythingairbrush.com/respirators-spray-booths/spray-booths/sparmax-spray-booth-with-exhaust-fan-pipe.html (https://www.everythingairbrush.com/respirators-spray-booths/spray-booths/sparmax-spray-booth-with-exhaust-fan-pipe.html)
This is 20" wide, sucks at 2m3/min, and costs £147 delivered.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/FLOUREON-Professional-Airbrush-Airbrushing-Extractor/dp/B00KXTDI7A/ref=pd_sbs_21_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00KXTDI7A&pd_rd_r=d972ad37-f48c-11e8-bed3-773608197450&pd_rd_w=PHf03&pd_rd_wg=Hiq55&pf_rd_i=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_p=18edf98b-139a-41ee-bb40-d725dd59d1d3&pf_rd_r=Z9XZJXAA0PF72JEBVQ9D&pf_rd_s=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=Z9XZJXAA0PF72JEBVQ9D (https://www.amazon.co.uk/FLOUREON-Professional-Airbrush-Airbrushing-Extractor/dp/B00KXTDI7A/ref=pd_sbs_21_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00KXTDI7A&pd_rd_r=d972ad37-f48c-11e8-bed3-773608197450&pd_rd_w=PHf03&pd_rd_wg=Hiq55&pf_rd_i=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_p=18edf98b-139a-41ee-bb40-d725dd59d1d3&pf_rd_r=Z9XZJXAA0PF72JEBVQ9D&pf_rd_s=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=Z9XZJXAA0PF72JEBVQ9D)
This is 13.5" wide, sucks at 3m3/min, and costs £95 delivered.

I'm (obviously) inclined towards the cheaper one (which is quieter as well as being advertised as having a more powerful suck) but don't want to find myself with an opening that is too narrow for (future) larger model parts.

Also are these things any good for extracting dope fumes?

Would welcome advice from experienced sprayers...

Cheers
Jon


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: SP250 on November 30, 2018, 08:54:17 AM
Jon

I am not an experienced sprayer but am experienced at cheap ways of doing stuff.

I cobbled up a system for about £20 years ago.
Basically a kitchen extractor fan (Screwfix now about £20) a large cardboard box to make the booth, some second hand 6" bore flexible tube and a replacement panel filter (about £6).
In true Blue Peter fashion with a roll of gaffa tape and a couple of brackets you can knock up something to do the job.
Just make sure to buy the correct filter panel to take out the relevant nasties of what you are spraying and blow the cleaned air to outside through a window or cat flap.
Block up where the rest of the window gap is and you are good to go.

Also tried using a "Henry" vac cleaner for the suck, with the correct panel filter in where the bag goes - worked ok but the smell was still in the house so reverted to doing the above.

John M


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: Jack Plane on December 01, 2018, 04:29:55 AM
Cheers for that John.

I would go down the DIY route, but I've got Christmas deadlines on to complete two small but complex jobs, plus essential health-related workshop gear to make (e.g. a carpeted, perforated bench-sized sanding-table to be connected to the 3-ph dust-extractor).  2019 is then the year to chip more rust off the marketing machine:  a time-intensive and little-loved job but necessary to stop a few financially-comfortable people giving their money to less deserving purveyors of consumer durables...  ;D

So what time and energy I have left I just want to spend on making models - my first Open class entry, a new Peanut which doesn't scrape the floor on the static front like my first one, and a 2m balsa slow-aerobatic sloper currently in very short-kit form.

Jon


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: FreeFlightModeller on December 01, 2018, 05:50:11 AM
No expert, but in a similar situation to you Jon.
I just make do with a three sided box I made from correx.
It's just put together with tape so it hinges and folds flat.


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: randoloid on December 01, 2018, 11:46:16 AM
I made my own down draft spray booth that I'm very happy with and it wasn't all that difficult or expensive. I spent way more time researching and planning than I did building.  There's quite a rabbit hole you can go down determining airflow requirements, filtering and safety aspects and there's a lot of misinformation on the internet (a cheap bathroom fan is not a good solution)  

If there's any interest, I'd be glad to provide pictures, and draw up plans with measurements along with the exact specs.

The air gets pulled through the floor, filtered and exit through two flexible dryer hoses. The layers are as follows (from the flooring down)
  • Peg board as the base flooring-  pre drilled holes allows for airflow
  • a furnace filter
  • 2 shielded exhaust fans
  • and 2 two flexible dryer hoses to move the air outside



Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: randoloid on December 01, 2018, 12:01:46 PM
I'm (obviously) inclined towards the cheaper one (which is quieter as well as being advertised as having a more powerful suck) but don't want to find myself with an opening that is too narrow for (future) larger model parts.

I forgot to quote you in my first post that your concerns about size is well founded.  I've been airbrushing for over 30 years and I can verify that both would do the trick for extracting the dope fumes (I've owned the one from Amazon and have used one very similar to the first link) Both have the turntable which is essential to working efficiently.

It would be totally fine if all you were building were peanut scale, anything larger, at best it will be a frustrating experience.




Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: fred on December 01, 2018, 12:08:26 PM
I would just bite the time constraints worry bullet and DIY a booth.
  Be very surprised if it took more than am Hours' actual construct time.
 How long does it take to slice one end off'n a cardboard box, or duct tape on a wee fan unit, slide a piece of dryer duct onto it's designed for it outlet,
 and subsequently  point  said  tube at a window ?
Stuff in a furnace filter, add a cheap turntable and the thing is the equivalent (or better) of some goofy Chinese made contraption.
Hardest / most time consuming part of all this is leaving the house to acquire the fan , filter and drier hose.
Wayyy easier than building a Peanut


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: Jack Plane on December 01, 2018, 12:23:53 PM

If there's any interest, I'd be glad to provide pictures, and draw up plans with measurements along with the exact specs.


Well Rando, I'd certainly be interested... because, notwithstanding my rationale to just buy one, I've just realised that it would make an excellent collaborative project for my 13yr old to work on with me over his Christmas holidays!  A bit of basic maths and applied physics, some hot-glue gun action, etc, etc!  :)

I'm sure loads of other people would also be interested and appreciative.

Jon



Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: randoloid on December 01, 2018, 01:49:52 PM
Jack, 

LOVE that idea of working with our kids, it's my opinion that it's these skills that our kids are really lacking (at least mine are). 

I'll put together specs, a drawing/plan, and snap some photos tomorrow. 



Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: Jack Plane on December 01, 2018, 02:05:07 PM
 :)


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: john bowerman on December 02, 2018, 08:42:44 AM
John
I have one of the type you mention at £95.00, not sure of the make of mine but there are a few of the same type under different badges. I have to say I have been pleased with mine and it performs at an acceptable level for me. I am only airbrushing and not many of the models will actually fit inside the box but as long as the item is in front then the fumes will be sucked out through the filter and outside. I allways open the window and allow the tube to vent in to fresh air and I also allways wear a decent mask to be safe. My workshop is within the house and so far I have received no complaints about the smell permeating the rest of the house.
Hope this helps.
John


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: Jack Plane on December 02, 2018, 09:31:40 AM
Thanks for that John, most helpful.

One thing I noticed about these generic commercial units is that some are designed so two can link together for a wider opening... but you have to spend double quite a lot of money in the first place!!   :o

As mentioned above, Randoloid's version seems like a quick and fun project and can be sized to suit the size of models in my own comfort zone (Peanut up to a max of maybe 30" span), and looking forward to seeing the design.

Coincidentally, the Kid was reading my copy of "Flight Without Formulae" last weekend, and asked me if we could make an experimental wind-tunnel, complete with incense sticks!  So we might in fact have two Christmas projects to make from my copious supplies of stiff corrugated cardboard!   ;D


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: flydean1 on December 02, 2018, 10:22:31 AM
Any source for that book?  Also interested in a home made wind tunnel.


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: Buster11 on December 02, 2018, 11:31:53 AM
Available via the South American river here:  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Flight-Without-Formulae-Aeroplane-Explained/dp/0582026989/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1543768217&sr=1-4&keywords=FLIGHT+WITHOUT+FORMULAE


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: fred on December 02, 2018, 01:08:52 PM
Any source for that book?  Also interested in a home made wind tunnel.

 Again; a trusty cardboard box..  both ends removed, plane in the middle and a box fan at the other end.
 Experiment as to whether suck Or blow works best for you
Or if really lazy... a box fan and a string to suspend the model in front of the fan


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: Jack Plane on December 05, 2018, 10:00:20 AM
Jack,  

LOVE that idea of working with our kids, it's my opinion that it's these skills that our kids are really lacking (at least mine are).  

I'll put together specs, a drawing/plan, and snap some photos tomorrow.  


Rando

Would be interesting to see how you went about it (especially your down-draft solution rather than the usual back-wall filter)... when you've got the time!  :)

In the meantime, I've just ordered some inexpensive components on a suck-it-and-see basis:

A 12w 100mm diameter exhaust 85m3/hr bathroom extractor fan https://www.screwfix.com/p/manrose-mg100s-12w-bathroom-extractor-fan-white-240v/36536 (https://www.screwfix.com/p/manrose-mg100s-12w-bathroom-extractor-fan-white-240v/36536)

20mm thick filter material https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/St290-Dual-Layer-Spray-Booth-Filter-Media-Roll-20m-X-1m-20mm-Depth/23007263347?iid=263517687932 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/St290-Dual-Layer-Spray-Booth-Filter-Media-Roll-20m-X-1m-20mm-Depth/23007263347?iid=263517687932) which comes in a 1m width x how ever many metres you want off the roll.

I bought 2m (as I want to also experiment with this on my workshop sanding-table and air-cleaning filters etc), so there's plenty enough to make a sizeable spray-booth, say 900mm (36") wide x 450mm (18") high.  If the bathroom extractor isn't quite man enough for this surface-area and thickness of filter, there's the alternative of a similarly cheap 25w 150mm diameter 230m3/hr kitchen extractor fan https://www.screwfix.com/p/manrose-xf150bs-25w-kitchen-extractor-fan-white-240v/11640 (https://www.screwfix.com/p/manrose-xf150bs-25w-kitchen-extractor-fan-white-240v/11640)

Jon


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: mick66 on December 06, 2018, 08:37:41 AM
Hi

you might want to take into consideration the type of fan you are using if you expect to spray anything that produces flammables.
Cellulose Dope, thinners etc ... you can get a build up of gases which ignite with the wrong kind of fan.

Personally I'd risk it but then I'm an idiot.

Cheers

Mike


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: Jack Plane on December 06, 2018, 02:34:06 PM
Thanks for the warning Mike!  :o ;D

I intend to only spray acrylics in occasional very low volumes only, but its worth bearing in mind, and there's nothing to prevent one from removing the filter when the booth is not in use to promote passive clearance of fumes from around the motor.

Interestingly the only technical diagram of a spray booth fan that I've found is the Sparmax one referred to earlier, which shows a 'paddle-wheel' type rather than the 'propellor-type' bathroom fan which I'll be using.  Don't know if there's any reason for the paddle type - noise, air-handling, efficiency, speed of operation?


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: PB_guy on December 06, 2018, 02:43:12 PM
From what I have heard, the 'centrifugal' or 'squirrel cage' design is quieter and more efficient than blades for moving larger volumes of air.
YMMV ian


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: Jack Plane on December 06, 2018, 03:45:07 PM
That makes sense Ian.

The simple box dust-filter unit in my workshop has a pre-filter at the intake end, the main filter in the middle, and a 'squirrel cage' fan at the exit end.  Quiet as it (relatively is) its always a delight when I turn it off!


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: SP250 on December 06, 2018, 06:02:14 PM
Jon

On the Squirrel cage type of fan, any flammable fumes and dust go through the paddle wheel and out though a filter.
The electric motor is in a separate chamber / area behind a seal so fumes etc. can't get into the motor like the they can in a kitchen fan with the motor central to the blades and in the air/fumes flow.  So it is considerably safer if extracting flammable fumes.

John M


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: mick66 on December 07, 2018, 01:51:59 AM
Hi

From my limited experience with my airbrush set up ... using mainly Tamiya acrylics (which work like a dream for me) ... you will find that 90% of your airbrushing effort goes into preparing the work area and cleaning up.  It's best to get into that mindset pretty quick as it makes it way more enjoyable.  The actual spraying is 10% of the effort.

Fumes are a consideration even with acrylics.  Not the paints themselves es but what you end up thinning them with and also what you end up cleaning the airbrush with.  Tamika thinners is expensive but undiluted car windscreen wash, neat cellulose thinners are really good for that initial cleaning of the brush.  Obviously neat cellulose thinners vapourised might be a concern.  You might be interested in one of these ...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Spraytidy-Professional-Airbrush-Cleaning-Accessories/dp/B00RVZG4X4

Good Luck!


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: Jack Plane on December 07, 2018, 04:38:39 AM
Thanks for explaining the difference John.  If gasses can get into the motor housing, then the habit of leaving the motor running with the filter removed after each (relatively brief and low-volume) session should help clear these?

Thanks Mick also for the extra info - and super looking jobs!  My kit so far includes that Spraytidy (as well as a Badger 350 and a combined compressor/tank) from Everything Airbrush.

The only experience I have of any paint is brushing on minor areas/details using Vallejo Model Air acrylics - the basic 16 colour set https://www.everythingairbrush.com/airbrush-paints/vallejo-model-air/model-air-paint-sets/sixteen-color-sets/model-air-paint-set-basic-colors-x16.html (https://www.everythingairbrush.com/airbrush-paints/vallejo-model-air/model-air-paint-sets/sixteen-color-sets/model-air-paint-set-basic-colors-x16.html) which have proved easy enough to mix and dilute with water if needed to achieve desired colours.

I'm all for trying Tamiya, but having started with Vallejo was thinking of sticking with them, using their thinners and airbrush cleaner, and adding bottles of specific colours as I need them.  Each make is probably as expensive as the other!


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: FreeFlightModeller on December 07, 2018, 08:46:37 AM
Following with interest, Jon .... I need to do similar myself (I've already mentioned my 'get by' solution).
If you survive to complete a successful spray booth, I might take your lead  :P

I really like the AV acrylics, but I have moved more towards Tamiya in recent times. This could just be that my old collection of Tamiya seems to be lasting on the shelf better than the AV?
I do find that Tamiya 'melts' better with its own thinner .... I seem to have less clogs than I did with AV. This could be just down to my own clumsy methods though?

The old Reg 2000 was painted entirely with AV acrylics.



Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: mick66 on December 07, 2018, 10:19:50 AM
Hi Jon

I don't think Tamiya is better than other paints per se ... it's whatever works for you that counts.

I have the Machine Mart equivalent of your Badger and its good for larger areas.  For smaller details stuff I'd recommend an Iwata Neo (gravity fed).  Both are better units than I am a user so no point upgrading at this point.

Whatever paint you use ... have a look on the 'plastics' forums for alternatives to branded cleaning products.  Save you a small fortune.  Concentrated windscreen wash cuts Tamiya superbly for initial cleaning of your brush.  Just use the branded stuff for the last rinse.

Cheers

Mike


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: Jack Plane on December 08, 2018, 02:49:11 AM
Cheers for the extra advice guys.

The Badger 350 came with a set of fine, medium and broad heads, so the scope for the equipment to exceed my abilities is threefold!

Russ, I think there might be something wrong with your equipment or your technique:  the earth colours on your Reg seem to have sprayed on very blurry...   ;D


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: FreeFlightModeller on December 08, 2018, 04:53:22 AM
Bill Brown used to call it 'mouldy'  ::)


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: fred on December 10, 2018, 12:57:15 PM
Re sealed and open motors in fans:
these are invariably INDUCTION motors as in seriously unlikely to ignite anything.
Having No brushes / no sparks... just AC cycling as magnetic motivation.
Seriously thinkm??.. that our 'safety' rules would allow for sale a potentially dangerous Fan motor in Either our Bathrooms Or Kitchens ??   
Think Hair spray isn't  instantly Volatile??
Beyond that: 30$ can buy a Bathroom fan featuring a Sealed (in a can case) motor Or for a few $ less.. an open frame motor.


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: Jack Plane on December 10, 2018, 02:56:08 PM
Good point Fred.

I've done my risk assessment (not mandatory as I don't employ anyone) and consider the likelihood pretty low and the consequences non-fatal.

... which is more than could be said for that bloke who launched his hang-glider off a cliff without having first clipped on!


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: Squirrelnet on December 10, 2018, 04:20:20 PM
I'm following this thread with interest Jon.

 I'm in a similar boat where some sort of extraction would help stop the workshop becoming out of bounds until the coloured mists settle  :-\. I just invested in a new compressor and half decent airbrush so a home made booth would make sense.

In addition to the fan you mention I noticed a fan on ebay as a cheap (£14) extractor

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Manrose-4-inch-Standard-Bathroom-Wall-Ceiling-Mounted-Quiet-Extractor-Fan-White (ftp://https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Manrose-4-inch-Standard-Bathroom-Wall-Ceiling-Mounted-Quiet-Extractor-Fan-White/372078410923?)

or even for a bit more (£17 - £18)  one that could go inline with some flexible hose and moves 183 -243m3 per Hr

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vents-axial-inline-fan-bathroom-fan-125-VKO-Series-up-to-243-m-h-IPX4 (ftp://https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vents-axial-inline-fan-bathroom-fan-125-VKO-Series-up-to-243-m-h-IPX4)

The hose adds more expense though at about £8 a metre.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Flexible-Aluminium-Ducting-Hose-Round-Ventilation-Tube-Flexi-Duct-Flexipipe (ftp://https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Flexible-Aluminium-Ducting-Hose-Round-Ventilation-Tube-Flexi-Duct-Flexipipe)

Just thinking out loud really, not sure what I will do which is why it's good to hear the discussion here. The in line fan looks good on the face of it

edit - I tried to add a link but I can't get them to work - Hopefully there's enough info in the links to do your own ebay search if you're interested


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: Ex Member on December 10, 2018, 04:40:32 PM
The larger “computer” type axial fans are a good option.  Many are dc low voltage, so you can power them from a wall wart, they are pretty quiet, and the decent ones are locked rotor protected.  They don’t spark since they are electronically comutated.

Although AC motors don’t spark, they can get quite warm to hot (especially single phase ones), and stalled (ie in a locked rotor scenario) they can get bloody hot!  :o. Current rules state that they should have thermistor in the windings to prevent this from happening... but....

Of course for a pukka extraction system the motor would have to be ATEX rated, but i agree that you really shouldn’t need to go that far!

Andrew


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: Monz on December 10, 2018, 05:24:18 PM
For a budget booth, grab one of these boxes, hole in the back, cheap fan and hose and you're done  ;D

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00ORQ13T0/ref=asc_df_B00ORQ13T057405348/?tag=googshopuk-21&creative=22110&creativeASIN=B00ORQ13T0&linkCode=df0&hvadid=256255917267&hvpos=1o4&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13759456258232826451&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046019&hvtargid=pla-422328351513&th=1&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00ORQ13T0/ref=asc_df_B00ORQ13T057405348/?tag=googshopuk-21&creative=22110&creativeASIN=B00ORQ13T0&linkCode=df0&hvadid=256255917267&hvpos=1o4&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13759456258232826451&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046019&hvtargid=pla-422328351513&th=1&psc=1)


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: randoloid on December 10, 2018, 11:06:09 PM
Sorry for the delay.  I had a family medical issue to attend to...

I quickly pulled out my spray booth, took some measurements and put together this rough plan.  the specs for the two fans that I'm using can be found here: https://www.mechatronics.com/pdf/UF17PC.pdf

The plan only shows the portion of the booth that removes the fumes... not the back and sides of the top side (not sure if that makes sense but maybe my photos will help)

I'll try to get the photos up soon.



Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: Ex Member on December 11, 2018, 02:19:15 AM
Them’s the fans I meant, that looks like a good scheme...

Andrew


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: Jack Plane on December 11, 2018, 03:26:34 AM
Thanks Randoloid - yes, I understand the design, and agree that it looks like a good scheme.  (Hope your family health issue is sorted.)

Converting units, each of your two fans draws 385m3/hr; together they total 770m3/hr - nine times more volume than the single tiddler I was thinking of using!  These are the 'H' (high) versions which produce 55dB each; the 'L' (low) versions draw half the volume at 37dB.

They are available here in the UK at not too crippling a price.  Your particular model has a long lead-time but there are similar Mechatronics ones in stock, just need to check their specs.

The 20mm thick spraybooth fleece arrived yesterday.  If I adopted your downdraft solution, the fleece by itself should make a suitable 'soft' floor, sat on a simple wire lattice (from coat-hangers) without the need for a perforated board.  The base unit and superstructure would be simple to construct from ply, the hood from any lightweight material.  Would be great to see a photo of your complete unit in due course.

Putting it all together, and planning on a slightly larger base dimension of 36" x 18" (yours is 30" x 15"), I wonder if I can get away with the two quieter but less powerful fans sucking air through the open-fleece floor?  Would you say that - in use - your booth has the right amount of suction or too much?  Would too powerful a system not simply suck paint away from the surface being sprayed, especially around the edges?

Cheers
Jon



Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: Jack Plane on December 11, 2018, 03:33:56 AM
I'm following this thread with interest Jon.

 I'm in a similar boat where some sort of extraction would help stop the workshop becoming out of bounds until the coloured mists settle  :-\. I just invested in a new compressor and half decent airbrush so a home made booth would make sense.

...

edit - I tried to add a link but I can't get them to work - Hopefully there's enough info in the links to do your own ebay search if you're interested

Hi Chris

The link system on HPA (second button in from the left on the line above the smilies) takes a bit of getting used to.

This is the basic outcome of copying and pasting the link in the middle of the url square-brackets thing:

https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/forecast/week/tahiti_french-polynesia_4033649 (https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/forecast/week/tahiti_french-polynesia_4033649)

But by replacing the repeated URL in the second half of the line (which you can see in full only if you edit the post you've just put up) with a better description, eg 'LINK' or 'WEATHER IN TAHITI', it will look like this:

LINK (https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/forecast/week/tahiti_french-polynesia_4033649) or WEATHER IN TAHITI (https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/forecast/week/tahiti_french-polynesia_4033649)

Try quoting this post and look at how the above two lines appear in full to see what I mean.

Jon  :)



Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: Pete Fardell on December 11, 2018, 04:06:21 AM
Jon, can you demo that again please but with a link to your bank account?

(Just need to book a flight to Tahiti)


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: randoloid on December 11, 2018, 06:19:45 AM

The 20mm thick spraybooth fleece arrived yesterday.  If I adopted your downdraft solution, the fleece by itself should make a suitable 'soft' floor, sat on a simple wire lattice (from coat-hangers) without the need for a perforated board.  The base unit and superstructure would be simple to construct from ply, the hood from any lightweight material.  Would be great to see a photo of your complete unit in due course.

Putting it all together, and planning on a slightly larger base dimension of 36" x 18" (yours is 30" x 15"), I wonder if I can get away with the two quieter but less powerful fans sucking air through the open-fleece floor?  Would you say that - in use - your booth has the right amount of suction or too much?  Would too powerful a system not simply suck paint away from the surface being sprayed, especially around the edges?


I knew that I had "too much" fan with the design - I use two flexible dryer hoses to get the fumes outside and know that they impede airflow quite a bit.  I haven't had an issue with too much airflow keeping my airbrush from painting but I'd be willing to bet that the quieter and "less sucky" fans would work just fine.  While doing my research I looked at the risks associated with fire and decided that since OSHA wouldn't be inspecting me that I'd be ok ;). I do turn the fans on before spraying or even mixing and let the booth run a couple minutes after I finish before I turn my system off.

I also use a furnace filter below my peg board to filter before extraction- I think you are spot on by using the fleece.  It will help keep things clean - Occasionally I get annoyed at all the overspray on my work surface and grab a can of white spray paint to freshen my pegboard up a bit

All I can say is that I'm really happy with it's functionality... while it may be a little more complex than other designs, I went with down draft style because it's similar to a commercial automotive spray booth (in terms of airflow).

I also added some battery powered led lights to the sides and back to really illuminate my work- once again copying a commercial booth- just on a much smaller scale.




Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: Jack Plane on December 11, 2018, 01:42:36 PM
Jon, can you demo that again please but with a link to your bank account?

(Just need to book a flight to Tahiti)

Sure Pete, I need the money and every little bit helps...!  ;D


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: Jack Plane on December 11, 2018, 01:51:35 PM
Thanks Rando for the extra info.

Will be running with my slight variation of your downdraft design, so your input much appreciated!

Jon


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: Squirrelnet on January 12, 2019, 01:42:11 PM
Ok here's my low tech, under a tenner, answer to the spray booth.

It comprises - 1 cardboard box, a cheap 12v Computer fan (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Corsair-12CM-120mm-Black-Fan-Cooler-Case-PC-Computer-Cooling-3-Pin/272834880457?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649) from eBay and some tumble dryer hose (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/All-sizes-PVC-Flexible-Ducting-Tumble-Dryer-Extractor-Hose-4-5-6-100-125-150mm/132857614786?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=432158708250&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649) also from ebay

The fan has a couple of moulded in threads for a self tapper so it was screwed to the cardboard with a suitably large washer. The 125mm PVC ducting is taped to the back so it can be stuck out of the workshop window. The power is supplied by a 12v power supply I have anyway for powering my battery chargers.

Does it work ?  .... don't know yet... I'll keep you posted. Got to be better than nothing though ?

It awaits its first victim 8)


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: fred on January 12, 2019, 06:46:53 PM
looks like it should work  although IMO..a larger  Cardboard carton wouldn't go amiss in containing oversprays .
 These (as example )  https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.fiberglass-3-pack-16x25x1.1000417261.html
make for decent  DIY carton booth filters.
 Either fitted as flooring or back wall. One can even get cheaper or pricier .. accordian pleated filter material ones, if the whim takes you


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: Squirrelnet on January 19, 2019, 01:16:58 PM
Thanks Fred it seems you are right, it worked well

I sprayed a fuselage today with primer and the fan successfully pulled the overspray out of the workshop.

Where I had previously had to vacate the workshop and cover everything to avoid the mist settling , this time any overspray cloud quickly disappeared and never filled the workshop space like it did before.

The fan has gained a mist of white primer so its obviously pulling some of the paint overspray away as it should. I have no filter, it's just a crude extraction system



Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: lincoln on January 20, 2019, 02:18:37 PM
I think, for just sprayed acrylic on a small model, you guys are over-reacting. Particularly if it's a stick and tissue model that's supposed to fly well. I should think just a dust mask and some overspray protection (newspaper, tarp, plastic sheet etc.) ought to be more than enough.

On the other hand, for dope near the water heater or furnace pilot light, a spray booth is a really good idea.

When I was using brain melting contact cement, I was fortunate enough to have a basement that had a built in exhaust fan. It had been used as a commercial kitchen at one point. I got a cardboard box that had once been for a large appliance and backed it up against the fan. As I recall, I had some plastic sheet or something that I'd dangle over the open front when I wasn't actually spraying, to minimize any circulation coming back into the room. It's been a while, but I seem to recall it worked pretty well. Probably overkill, but convenient.

For those in the US, you can find surplus fans at goldmine-elec.com, allelectronics.com, sciplus.com and surpluscenter.com. The selection varies over time, but you can often find fairly inexpensive stuff.

The specs, of course, matter. Not just CFM but the pressure too, usually expressed in inches of water. OTOH, you'd have to look up and calculate how much pressure to expect with the hose, etc. that you're using. You may have to take the model number and get the specs off the manufacturer's site.


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: DHnut on January 20, 2019, 04:35:47 PM
Chris,
         From what I see you have made a very practical solution to ensuring a minimum impact on your surroundings. I would still use a full mask with activated carbon filters while sraying even with acrylics. Maybe an overkill but you never know what is in any of the paints we use these days. They may not smell as much but!
The Wilga is really looking good and I think will be very competitive and not just in breezy conditions.
The video of the DLG looked as if it was a very cold day, we are currently at 25 deg C.
Ricky     


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: Squirrelnet on January 21, 2019, 02:12:18 AM
Thanks Ricky, Yep still wearing a mask but the coloured workshop fog I was getting has gone  :D

DLG session was pretty cold, around freezing, 25C sounds very attractive

Chris


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: RalphS on March 28, 2019, 10:54:35 AM
As a winter project I purchased a Dancing Wings Hobby Piper J3 laser cut kit for about £30. Not bad for a near 4' span r/c model.
The wood selection and laser cutting was excellent.  Not being able to resist I have been modifying it a bit to make it more scale-like and am happy with the work that I have done.  Now back to the thread ---.

Although I usually airbrush my scale freeflight models I never liked having to clear away the overspray and coloured paint dust everywhere in the workshop.  Nearing completion of the J3 I realised that there was going to be much more overspray dust from a model this size than from a KK size rubber model.  Then the Squirrelnet spraybooth design came to the rescue.  I had a long box courtesy of Sussex Models selling off little Taylorcraft micro r/c models.  I purchased the recommended 12v pc fan, thin plastic dryer ducting and loosely bound filter material intended for fish tanks (??) and made up something like Chris's spraybooth.  Everything that I ordered came within 3-4 days but the ducting only arrived after I complained to ebay - they sorted it out quickly after I complained but it took 3 weeks from Leicester to Cheshire.

The J3 is ready for covering but I wanted to spray a bit of colour around the cockpit area inside and out before covering.  So today saw the spraybooth finished and let the spraying commence.  No overspray, no dust, absolutely brilliant.

Now I can finish the model and give it a covering of Cub Yellow without worrying about the need to clean the workshop down afterwards.  Thanks Chris.

3rd pic shows a test strip of clean filter against the working filter to see the colour change.


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: Jack Plane on March 28, 2019, 12:01:55 PM
Nice one Ralph!

Still haven't made my booth yet - expect I'll do so just before I need to spray something!

Jon


Title: Re: When spraying...
Post by: Squirrelnet on March 28, 2019, 03:55:33 PM
Glad to hear it was useful. I like your fish tank filter idea, my fan has changed colour a few times already

Chris