Hip Pocket Builders' Forum

Outdoor Free Flight Forum => P-30 Class Sport and Competition => Topic started by: DerekMc on February 14, 2020, 12:04:14 PM

Title: P30 Primer Query
Post by: DerekMc on February 14, 2020, 12:04:14 PM
What topics do you think should be in a P30 Primer pictorial document? Basic idea is that a novice to free flight could read and build along with the P30 Primer and a kit and end up with a nice flying, good looking P30.

Basic Chapter Layout

1. Kit unboxing/unbagging

2. Glue basics

3. Building Board Options

4. Building Techniques

5. Covering Options (tissue, Mylar, adhesives and sealing)

6. DT Modifications

7. Timer Options

8. Rubber Basics (selection, handling, winding, torque meter)

9. Propeller options

10. Basic flight trimming

11. Thermal Picking

12. Basic contest flying

13. Second Plane Options (What Now?)

What else?

Title: Re: P30 Primer Query
Post by: strat-o on February 14, 2020, 01:46:22 PM
I think I would try to find a way to show as few options as possible for a document aimed at a beginner.  Try to show the most commonly chosen options as the way but perhaps express in the text that "there may be other ways but this is the way we are showing you here."  Otherwise they may get lost in completing the task because they may not be motivated enough to try to figure out which option is best for them.  Also the final document will end up being simpler.


Title: Re: P30 Primer Query
Post by: DerekMc on February 14, 2020, 01:57:26 PM
Marlin, I agree. The planned format will be a basic section with my favorite way to do it. Options will be covered in an addendum for each topic. One will be able to build a nice flying good looking P30 with just the basic chapters.

Title: Re: P30 Primer Query
Post by: Greg Langelius on February 14, 2020, 03:54:30 PM
14. Finding designs that aren't kits.

15. How to select feasible scratch building designs, and making up the parts as if they came with a kit.

16. Building with those parts from the plans.

There are a lot of orphan plans out there, with no kits attached.

Gotta bring them in sometime. After a successful kit build (or a few) might be an option the beginner would be interested in.

Knowing what's involved in scratch building helps the builder decide if and/or when it's time for that.


Title: Re: P30 Primer Query
Post by: Lee from Chitown on February 15, 2020, 01:10:13 PM
As a relative newbie the Primer I think it sounds great.
My comment is probably nit picking, or lack of knowledge, I think the topic of the building board should be second, after choosing a plane. Without the board you are not going to do anything, except wait for a board. You can gather tools, building material, discuss different glues and nothing gets done until you have that board.
A possible topic I didn’t see was “accessories. Winders, stooges, meters and such.
Looking forward to Primer!

Title: Re: P30 Primer Query
Post by: DerekMc on February 15, 2020, 01:53:15 PM
Thanks for the feedback Greg!  Great list of topics for a volume 2 I think. We will see how far this gets 8)

Title: Re: P30 Primer Query
Post by: DerekMc on February 15, 2020, 01:58:27 PM
Great suggestion Lee and I agree.  I'm adjusting the outline with the feedback I've received here and on FB.  The plan is to cover accessories as they come up in the build and trim process. Once I'm finished I plan to put together a full list of everything I used and options so that one can see what's up early on. There is a lot and I don't want anyone to see a long list and be put off by it right up front.

Title: Re: P30 Primer Query
Post by: flydean1 on February 15, 2020, 09:20:58 PM
I sorta disagree with Greg.  You really should start from kits, especially short kits.

Many lack the skill to cut out parts.  There are some short kits out there that aren't hard to build, and the laser cut parts save much time and frustration.

An example is Lee Campbell's Souper 30.  I think Retro RC or someone has the kit still.  If I recall, it has a flat bottom airfoil which is much easier to build, and cover for a beginner.  Get something in the air successfully and quickly so they won't be turned off by tedium.

Agree with the building board priority.

Title: Re: P30 Primer Query
Post by: calgoddard on February 20, 2020, 01:05:40 PM
Derek -

You have come up with a great idea. Your primer would encourage people to try outdoor free flight.

Maybe the DT description should be an option. While it is relatively easy for experienced builders and fliers to implement a DT, it can be complicated and frustrating for a novice. Yes a P-30 without a DT will fly away sooner, rather than later, but the novice will likely be inspired and build a better P-30.

The easiest P-30 kit to build is probably the Almost P-30 from Peck-Polymers, formerly called the One Nite 28. Leave off the single landing gear and the tip plates on the stab. Unfortunately, currently that company's web site says this kit is out of stock.

A good P-30 for scratch building by a beginner is the HOT BOX by John Oldenkamp.

I have a total of eight P-30 models and two P-30 kits waiting to be built. P-30 is obviously one of my favorite classes.

Title: Re: P30 Primer Query
Post by: Greg Langelius on February 20, 2020, 03:43:46 PM
I agree with everything said here.


Title: Re: P30 Primer Query
Post by: DerekMc on February 21, 2020, 01:15:37 AM
Thanks for the input calgoddard.  My first P30 was the One Night 28 and it did fly away without a DT. 3rd flight if I remember correctly. Glad to hear that it is still available with a new name. 

The kit I will use for the P30 Primer is the Souper 30. It comes with a DT so no modifications are necessary and it is readily available as a full kit.  It was my 2nd P30 and I flew it quite a bit until I lost it in a big thermal. Stab DT just doesn't cut it with a P30. Now I pop the wing off which works great.

I'll probably start and new thread and post the draft versions of the sections as I write them.  My first stab at the P30 Primer was several years ago. I stopped flying P30 for a while to concentrate on F1B and F1S/E36.  I still have all the initial notes so I'm editing them into a new format at the moment. It will be interesting to see where it all ends up :)  Onward!

Title: Re: P30 Primer Query
Post by: flydean1 on February 21, 2020, 11:29:26 PM
I second your choice of the Souper 30.  Lee got it right for newbys.

Title: Re: P30 Primer Query
Post by: DerekMc on February 22, 2020, 02:10:41 AM
I second your choice of the Souper 30.  Lee got it right for newbys.

I agree. This will be my fourth Souper 30?  I'm not sure.  I modified most of them in some way.  I'll build this one out of the box and close to plan. Only difference will be a pop off wing DT.  I made a copy of the plan today so I have all the parts ready to go. Hopefully start the build tomorrow morning.