Hip Pocket Builders' Forum

Outdoor Free Flight Forum => Free Flight Scale => Topic started by: Crabby on September 17, 2020, 10:07:26 AM



Title: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on September 17, 2020, 10:07:26 AM
This is not going to be a proper build thread in the tradition guys are used to on this forum. I was in the process of getting rid of the kits I knew I'd never build, and this Reliant began to coax me into submission. One of my favorite models is a Comet high wing, the Aeronca K, it just has all the charm and charisma I like in a model. I want to approach this build in the same manner as I did the K, with maybe a little "crabification". So please check in if the spirit moves you as I go through the build process on the Reliant. Your commentary is always welcome from the sweet to the tart.  Also look at Paul Bradley's studious build thread of the same plane!
https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=3779.0
Is my imagination or does this plane resemble a Lysander?


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on September 23, 2020, 12:01:36 PM
After looking over the lumber in this kit, I decided to cut the parts from the sheet, and all is going well. I can't help but think the guy who set up the print wood was a bit of a wiesen-hiemer though. this is a very hard sheet of 1/8. Call it a plank. Here is how he set up the wheel covers for a regular guy with an exacto, a box of band-aids and his mom singing in the kitchen cutting carrots with a paring knife. I got the last laugh though. Kids please try this at home before you cut your phlange tip off and scare your mom!


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: TheLurker on September 23, 2020, 04:11:25 PM
Yes. Quite.  Not at all helpful nor considerate.
I think I would have resorted to a pin chuck and fine drill bit.


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on September 23, 2020, 04:19:12 PM
I think I would have resorted to a pin chuck and fine drill bit.

Lurk, please advise on the above technique...


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: TheLurker on September 24, 2020, 03:07:08 PM
Dead simple and a very old idea (even older than me) to boot.  Take one drill bit about one third to one half the width of the stupidly narrow gap.  Into a pin chuck and drill a series of holes as closely spaced as you possibly can along the centre line of the gap.  If they're close enough you can just, "Tear along the dotted line." when you're done.  Otherwise use the tip of a scalpel/exacto blade to gently cut away the tags holding the bits of wood together.  Then sand back to profile.  It's not a desperately fast way of doing it, but it does work.  I use the technique if I want to cut awkward curves in (thin) plywood.

Cheers,
Lurk






   


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on October 13, 2020, 11:16:17 AM
No pain no gain. When I was a young balsa butcherer, cutting my fingers, this was the part that finally turned me off to modeling. I would dive into a project like this with a dull xacto, and an impatient tempo. I have been putting this specific part off since the day I saw them, 16 cowl bumps. I began by hot glueing a toothpick into the back and fiddling like Satan's protégé. that didn't work so I am now fingertipping the job. I will have the fingers of a safe-cracker when this is done, but I like the look of a handled model. Good thing I bought a Craftsman jig saw at a yard sale least year. I will be looking at Thee Olde Man's Mr. Mulligan when I begin the cowl. He used the thin foam from the bottom of a Schweppe's bitter lemon bottle. Very thin. I will post pics.


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on October 15, 2020, 07:33:06 PM
Good evening to all!
If you have built this model I would really welcome your experience/(pics) with this area right here. Its a major beauty mark on this plane, and I would bet several guys/gals have several different approaches on how they wound up handling this. One thing for sure it would be bad place to get lazy.


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: OZPAF on October 15, 2020, 07:44:19 PM
Nice bit of balsa sculpturing at the top of the UC. I was admiring the foam cowl on your dad's model when I noticed the lump of clay on the prop - very practical. It's been there for a while but still has that just placed look :)

Anyway nice work.

John


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on October 15, 2020, 10:15:52 PM
HA HA HA HA!!! It looks like nose cancer to me. That plane was contest flown and he didn't seem to lose any sleep putting a nasty snot-locker on a beautiful dame like that Mulligan, just so long as she did her thing! As far as the Reliant, I was hoping someone had done that nice round upper area in paper and had a pattern, before I re-create the wheel!


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on October 20, 2020, 12:29:47 PM
I am referring to the Bradley thread now and then, but I still like the brain calisthenics of figuring out problems of my own. After building up the sides on the plan, I began to over think a solid jig for lining up the sides when I put the top and bottom formers in. That's when I recalled someone saying that George Perryman did a lot of his builds "in the air", so I set up a TV table with a couple tools and watched football while I joined the sides "in the air" it was fun and as square as it would have been had I been over at the bench. But it was fun. Not for trembly hands, and I find that a 30 minute meditation period is advisable before building a model, to let the clutter settle.

There are a lot of Reliants to choose from on the web and in Thee Olde Man's files, plus I can't wait to try the bow and arrow logo! Here is how Art356a did his


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: TheLurker on October 20, 2020, 01:53:39 PM
Building in air?  Crikey.  Brave fellow.

How are you planning to do the bow & arrer?


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Indoorflyer on October 20, 2020, 03:23:39 PM
Art's horizontally aimed "bow and error" is a later design that was used on the Voyager series. The Reliants had the upward/vertically aimed logo. A quick search on the web will bring up the different versions of the logo.


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on October 20, 2020, 03:32:39 PM
Lurk lets just hope it not a bow & error!

True that Indoor Flyer! It is a pic of the Voyager tail. I have Arts Voyager. I was supposed to give it away at the next club fly, but I decided to keep it awhile. Its a hell of a nice model and I am gonna take her out in the tall grass for some hide and seek!
 


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on October 21, 2020, 04:49:47 PM
Over on Paul Bradley's site (linked earlier post) he posted a masterful build sequence with a lot of good ideas. One is the nose assembly jig which I made from the part templates sheets he included. You will notice J1 and J2. These are designed to keep the jig square and and if you take for granted they will just slip in the groove and automatically be square, ...... ::) ::) >:(!   I eyeballed it square after I removed J1. If you attempt this model this is a great jig and you could even build in some thrust adjustments if you are very careful or very uncareful ::)  >:(!  Last pic is where I took the aluminum rod and coaxed a slight curve into the upper and lower longerons so to avoid a banana-type experience. I learned at a later age to be careful choosing my balsa for certain uses in the airframe.


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on October 24, 2020, 03:29:30 PM
State of the Stinson.
Fuse built per plan, looks like a Home Depot d.i.y. project on Budweiser. I ain't even gonna weigh it. I am, however gonna sand the B'jesus out of the thing. Must download fiddle music for that session.

Some things in the detail section of the pic are gonna be done over like the cowl bumps. I stumbled on a good way to do 'em I forget where and I can not wait to try it. I think the wheel pants are too skinny they are going on a carb diet starting tomorrow.

This build is relatively free of and superfluous Crabbification, but I need to find a lightweight material to skin the cowl with. I am worried about the weight


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Don McLellan on October 24, 2020, 04:36:50 PM
Nice work Crabby.  When (if) you redo the cowl bumps let us in on your other secret construction method.


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: OZPAF on October 24, 2020, 06:55:59 PM
Quote
but I need to find a lightweight material to skin the cowl with. I am worried about the weight
Depron foam or Vector board could be used if you have a simple framework underneath to take the rubber thrust loads.

It's much lighter than balsa but is also softer.

John


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: TheLurker on October 25, 2020, 03:33:52 AM
Quote from: Crabby
I think the wheel pants are too skinny...
I dunno, they have a charming, "Flash Gordon" aesthetic which I find quite appealing. 


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Russ Lister on October 25, 2020, 12:02:48 PM
Enjoying watching the build, Crabby ... I was given a slightly battered kit of the Stinson over 15 years ago. That also has plank wood, but watching your build has made tracing the parts a more attractive prospect.


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: TimWescott on October 25, 2020, 08:49:39 PM
I have been putting this specific part off since the day I saw them, 16 cowl bumps.

Eh -- sixteen cowl bumps?  Shouldn't that be seven or nine times two, depending on which engine was in the prototype?


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on October 25, 2020, 10:24:01 PM
sorry professor, I stand corrected, and thanks for stopping in!


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on October 25, 2020, 10:46:02 PM
Ok I read this on the Paul Bradley build as well. You cut a balsa blank a little wider than the cowl bump, 3/16 x 5-6", sand it to the tear drop profile, then round the ends to the correct shape. Figure out a jig so you can cut them all the same height. As you go be mindful of your profile, hitting it with the sanding block to keep things true, chances are you will not be perfect in sanding a consistent profile. The nice thing about this is you got something to hold onto, making the tedium a little less tedious. Yes I am still missing one or two.


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: OZPAF on October 26, 2020, 08:00:43 PM
It looks effective Crabby! Neat idea from Mr Bradley.

John


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: dosco on October 27, 2020, 05:35:45 PM
MMMmmmm.

Am enjoying this build. Something about some of those Comet designs ... looks like too few wing ribs (but it's not). I built an Avenger, way back when, that I presume was designed around the same time as this particular bird.

Keep it rolling, man.

-Dave


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: bobson on October 27, 2020, 11:12:40 PM
Nice assembly line for the cowl bumps Crabby and great build! Looking forward to seeing more progress.


Oliver


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on October 28, 2020, 04:59:26 PM
I wont lie, it took 3 efforts to get the hang of doing cowl bumps. I had to slice one, then reshape the profile as I went. I also had to make a slicing jig in order to get the height uniform. This is a great way to do cowl bumps, because its like the only way. Its not even easy, but it kept me from biting my nails while I watched football on Sunday. I will say this about this kit...this particular one was put together in the transition period between die-crushed and CAD cut. It was beautifully printed on some of the hardest balsa I ever dealt with, BUT everything goes together like puzzle pieces. no drama yet. Here I got going with the wings, and yes I love these old Comet designs and I agree they probably need more wing ribs. Its your workbench after all!


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on October 30, 2020, 10:33:45 PM
Here is the wing. Despite intense internal pressure to so the usual laminated tips I did the built up version as the kit dictates. The bottom stringers are 1/16 x 1/8 and add good compression strength, but I am fighting the urge to add another across the top from the second rib out to the tips. The right half is about a half a gram heavier than the left so I have to deal with that. This plane is going to be a bit of a porker, the fuse and the wings doing about 13.5 gr. I can see why a guy might go for electric. The peg is going to go up maybe 2 bays. It might not be a contender, but it ought to be a sight doing circles in the sky!


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Don McLellan on October 31, 2020, 03:34:28 PM
So is there not a top stringer on the wing?  If not, will you get the 'starved horse' look?

Also, which game(s) did you watch last weekend?


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on October 31, 2020, 05:39:54 PM
Don, the plan does not call for it, but that does it I am going to do a top stringer. What's a pound to an elephant?

Games? I watch 'em all I have the NFL game ticket thing, where you can watch 'em all. I usually watch the Bears if I have time for the pain, but the Seahawks have been a pain antidote for me lately.


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Don McLellan on October 31, 2020, 08:39:23 PM
Hi Crabby,

I don't think I've ever made a wing without a top stringer, so applaud your decision. 

And hoping the Seahawks can do better this weekend.

Don


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: PaulBrad on November 02, 2020, 11:15:52 PM
Crabby - You will be very happy you added a top spar to the wing. It makes a huge difference in the span wise bending strength. That is very important when you have one of those "landings" that involve a wing tip strike with the ground. Don't ask me why I added a top 1/16" spar on my version of the Comet plan :). I can also confirm you are very correct about the pleasure you get from seeing the model circle over head regardless of the total duration. The Comet Stinson looks great in the air.

Paul Bradley


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on November 05, 2020, 06:47:04 PM
Thanks for stopping in Paul. The deed is done. The other hi wing Comet kit I built, the Aeronca K also has no top stringer, and it is a little starved horsey. That said it is very pretty thing to behold in the air.You can actually stand there and drink in all the rewards for the building, fixing repairing, trimming. I had Earl Stahl and Dave Platt sign the fuselage.


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on November 14, 2020, 06:12:31 PM
Small progress on the Reliant, I managed to do the stab and rudder last week. BUT it wouldn't be progress without the compulsory set-back. The rudder was a misfit. I had to roll the bottom piece to conform to the top fuse spar. I guess I have to figure out the LG next. I really hate it when the undercarriage gets ripped off, but I also hate "building for the crash". I am thinking about something that will break away clean Pay no attention the direction the pic is facing it will auto correct if you click on it.


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: flydean1 on November 14, 2020, 09:03:34 PM
Hopefully, the wide plank in the photo is not the rear peg location.  If so, it needs to be moved way far forward.


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on November 14, 2020, 09:46:19 PM
I knew that would get you on here! No the peg is going up two bays but I am glad you reminded me to put it in.


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: flydean1 on November 15, 2020, 01:59:17 PM
You're welcome ;D


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on November 20, 2020, 10:22:39 AM
Here's the hang up... I am in a perpetual loop over the landing gear. Habit tells me to use a LG wire passed thru the fuse for shock absorption, but that means not fixing the upper fairing to the fuse, so the whole apparatus can spring back. Then looking at the long nose, and thinking of a crash, the nose should take most of the beating before the LG gets abuse. That makes me want to do this splendid carving and glue it on rock solid. Then I imagine the mess if it all gets ripped off in a crash. What you see is a paper template of the upper end of the appendage where it should fair nicely into the fuse.


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: strat-o on November 20, 2020, 11:54:18 AM
That is a dilemma and I don't have an answer for it.  Just that I think the Sterling kit solution was to make it rigid by providing very stiff wire gear.  I think too that the upper fairing, being made of plastic, had a bit of give.

Marlin


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Indoorflyer on November 20, 2020, 12:39:04 PM
It is one of those "details left to the builder" dilemmas.  Further complicating the issue: the wing strut "appears" to attach to/or through that big beautiful upper gear leg fairing...

Maybe the fairing needs to be two parts, one solid to the airframe, another that nestles close, but can move with gear flex?  

Perhaps a "slot" could be incorporated into the fairing, to allow gear flex.



Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: PaulBrad on November 20, 2020, 02:05:20 PM
I also struggled with the decision on how to best mount the landing gear legs. I finally took the easy way out. I made up a piano wire landing gear core. That was mounted to the fuselage between two balsa plates that are parallel to the bottom fuselage longerons. The fairings were then sandwiched over the piano wire legs. That does not allow for any for and aft flex and really limits the side flex. I decided to live with that as the model is light and doe not produce a lot of force on a hard landings. Mine has logged many flights. I did manage to crack one of the gear leg fairings below the fuselage blend fairings. The piano wire central leg prevented any real damage. A few drops of Ca on the crack and she was ready to take flight again.

Paul Bradley


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: billdennis747 on November 20, 2020, 02:17:33 PM
The u/c on this might be worth considering
https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=709


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: OZPAF on November 20, 2020, 06:16:28 PM
Nice looking model and what a neat solution. I was actually thinking of using silastic for a similar approach with the UC on a HE71A. I think that would be a good way to go.
mentioned by Indoor.

John


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Richard Hewitt on November 21, 2020, 06:16:34 AM
Also the McHard Gladiator, https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=7 offers a solution - he moulds the fairings from thin plastic and leaves a discreet slit at the rear so the legs can flex backward upon "arrival".


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: ghostler on November 21, 2020, 05:26:35 PM
Here is the wing. Despite intense internal pressure to so the usual laminated tips I did the built up version as the kit dictates. The bottom stringers are 1/16 x 1/8 and add good compression strength, but I am fighting the urge to add another across the top from the second rib out to the tips. The right half is about a half a gram heavier than the left so I have to deal with that. This plane is going to be a bit of a porker, the fuse and the wings doing about 13.5 gr. I can see why a guy might go for electric. The peg is going to go up maybe 2 bays. It might not be a contender, but it ought to be a sight doing circles in the sky!

Just curious, but when I built the Comet kit in 1966, it mounted the wing halves on each of the sides of the fuselage. Are you just holding the halves together as they were one? As I recall, the inward curing gull leading edge graced the front edge of the cockpit window topside on both sides. It was an interesting way that they mounted the wing forward slightly to compensate the center of gravity for the heavier radial piston engine of the day.

Nice craftsmanship, by the way.


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on November 21, 2020, 10:58:37 PM
Hi George thanks for stopping in. I apologize for that misleading pic. I was just holding the two halves together to check if my dihedral jig was effective. When you lean a root in rib to effect the dihedral, it doesn't look like much. I am still meditating on an efficiently springy landing gear married to a solidly-mounted arty looking bit of "balsa sculpture" that won't break off "upon arrival". After reading Paul Bradley and others' posts I am probably over thinking the whole affair. I really don't expect any hard landings. It is, however a beauty mark on this plane and could be an Achilles Heel as well if a little shock absorption isn't considered.


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: ghostler on November 21, 2020, 11:07:37 PM
Hello Crabby, OK, thanks for clarifying the wing. Comet didn't have a really good method of a landing gear on most of their aircraft that could reasonably withstand landings. Appears to be more of a cost move.

One is left to engineer their own. I built their 18" wingspan P-40 fifty years ago, made a non-scale landing gear that was fuselage mounted similar to control line using music wire.


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on November 22, 2020, 09:53:40 AM
Good am guys and thanks for stopping in to check things out. I feel a little less un-creative when I see the slot in the back, and then the rubber transition approaches. I had though of those ideas and had them back burnered in case I didn't come up with something more elegant. But...now that I see those sameish approaches done by wizards of the art, I feel emboldened. Here is the impressionistic approach Thee Olde Man employed on his Mulligan. Some of his planes remind me of what Rita Hayward  said about herself: "They sleep with Gilda, and then wake up with Rita". That means the sum of all the imperfections equal majestic beauty in dim light or at a distance. That is just a piece of mis-guided humility, meant to imply she was simply a very plain person who could dupe men with a little make up...But I like women better without all the make-up. AND...his tricky method like Rita's does the trick. That is the strangely thin foam-plastic that was used in a airline first-class menu as a divider of some sorts. On the other side not pictured he has the LG leg attached to this membrane and it would give upon landing then the wire would unflex, tautening it back up. What a bunch of mad scientists we are.


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on November 22, 2020, 09:57:04 PM
HA HA HA HA I just re-read what I typed this am.... Wifey must have slipped something into the tea this morning bless'er heart!


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: OZPAF on November 23, 2020, 01:46:35 AM
 :D It was a bit puzzling! You wouldn't be a screen writer by any chance Crabby? ;)

John


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on November 27, 2020, 08:57:46 AM
OK I hope everyone had a pleasant Thanksgiving Holiday. Its back to the Reliant. I made a decision to carve out some landing gear "legs". (1) I made a sanding jig to get the upper part angled to blend into the fuse, and maintain the angle out to the wheels. Then I glued a block to each from which to carve that "teardrop" blend. I glued them together making a UFO looking thing and sanded and fiddled it into a somewhat eye-pleasing shape. The use of shaping sticks and rods in several abusive grits down to 3000 grit to get it polished. I hereby promise to stay on track and not drift off into the ether. Straight Earl Grey from here out! the pics aren't in perfect order but if you have a question I am delighted to answer!

These legs will glue modestly to the fuse, and the wire LG will hide behind all that and do its springy thing on less than elegant landings. On the really bad crashes where I do something absent minded, the leg (or legs)should break off at the fuse joint. Now for some surgery to insert the wire LG. I have a Crabbication brewing.


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: bobson on November 27, 2020, 12:27:51 PM
Some really nice woodwork Crabby. Can't wait to see them on the fuse.

Oliver


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on December 05, 2020, 09:57:43 AM
Good am comrades, and thanks guys for stopping by to check me out! Hello Oliver!

Yesterday I fiddled with the cowl by "spit forming" stiff 1/32" sheet around a 2" diameter hole saw and wrapping it with ankle wrap from the first-aid supplies. I then baked it in the oven at 275 for two hours, loosing track of time... I find spit works better than any of the other "solutions I have tried. No buckles either. You will note that as usual when doing a radial cowl I run the grain lengthwise to the sheet so I can do the operation in one piece. It really works well for me. So I tacked it all together and I now face the scale... 19 grams. I am gonna go for the cowl "bumps" next, then probably the cabin details. Its the journey not the destination, still I have visions of launching this model into the gentle cyclones! I am letting my wife choose the color scheme. I went with the dihedral angle found on the plan, .75 at the wing tips. I have to refer back to Paul Bradley's build to set the incidence, he got some advise on increasing it some from a fellow builder. I think the dihedral seems kinda flat for a model.


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: TimWescott on December 05, 2020, 05:28:58 PM
That's interesting that you can get 1/32 to wrap around that small of a form -- I'm going to have to try it.  That, and baking.  Maybe not the spit though -- I'm not sure I could work up enough for such a large cowl!

Apparently spit is also a good mild cleaning solution for removing organic matter from ancient artifacts.  As in -- honest to gosh museum conservators use it for cleaning mummy cases.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhbFLt7tGWc&t=392s


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: OZPAF on December 05, 2020, 06:04:27 PM
Nice cowl. I'm also amazed that your "spittoon" technique works so well and with stiff balsa!  :)

John


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on December 05, 2020, 06:58:32 PM
I saw it on National Geographic a long time ago. These African ladies were handweaving baskets and other stuff from a stiff African Plains grass. They would run it through their lips and then bend, twist, and form it into the craziest shapes without ever breaking it. So I suck on lemon drops and slobber, in a neat and classy way, all over a 2" x 7" x 1/32! The key is to wrap while pulling around the form inside an Ace bandage. The Ace bandage is stretchy. Here we go with the cowl bumps. My OCD wont let me get away with the bad spacing!


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on December 05, 2020, 10:41:56 PM
I tested negative for Covid BTW


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: OZPAF on December 06, 2020, 06:59:54 PM
 :D It's nice to know you won't be infecting a poor innocent model!

Thanks for the info!

John


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: ghostler on December 06, 2020, 07:54:33 PM
Have to be careful, I tested positive for Castor. ;D


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on December 09, 2020, 11:34:02 PM
Here is one color version I like, since orange is a favorite color of mine. Its not an SR-7, but who's telling? the other I like is Doolittle's SR-10 I will post a pic of that soon. I found a nice inexpensive set of acrylics at Home Depot the other day and I have been fooling around with them doing tissue samples then coating with clear dope just to get the feel of it. I never took stock of all the tissue I have. Jeez guilt trip! with the esaki shortage going on. You'd think I've hoarding it like toilet tissue a few months back.
Anyway I am looking at Stinson Gullwing colors right now, its dazzling!


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on December 11, 2020, 09:45:28 AM
OK the plane I have decided to copy from is a Stinson SR-9F NC-18445. Its because I like orange, and the lightning bolt. Plus because this is gonna be hand painted, there doesn't seem to be any particularly challenging super graphics on this plane, except for the Stinson logo on the tail. As the work goes on I MAY chicken out and use the printer here and there, but I am doing my best to stay away from printed tissue, so I can use my eye-hand coordination, while I still have some. The landing gear dilemma, I decided like Paul, to rely on my much improved (?) flying skills, and just glue 'em on with a few spots of straight Duco onto a foundation of solid painted balsa. In the highly unlikely  ::) event of a hard landing they will knock off and not take any tissue with it. I am not even going to use any wire through the fuse, to save some weight. If there are any objections I will hear them now along with cross-examinations. I have satisfied Flydean and moved the motor peg nose-ward.


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: ghostler on December 11, 2020, 01:36:14 PM
I think you are doing a fine job, Crabby and regarding your plans to finish, don't see any reason to object. Everyone has their own preferred methods of finish, and what is best or preferred for one is not for another. Basically you have to please you, because in reality that is the only one who matters in this case.

The black does remind me of Comet kit black tissue, that for some odd reason was included in more kits than not in 1965 - 1966. Being a military dependent with transportation (24" English 3 speed bicycle), I'd ride over to the Keesler AFB hobby shop several miles away (in Biloxi, MS) and buy Esaki style Japanese tissue. (I don't know the actual name then, I was only 11-12 YO, didn't require adult escort then). It covered so much nicer compared with the shoe box packing grade tissue so common in kits back then.

I covered a 16" span Comet Ryan SC low wing cabin with Comet black, looked a little gawdy but still cool in my own eyes. Forgoing the black tissue that came with the kit, I covered Sparky in genuine orange for wings and stab, and blue for fuselage and rudder. Then at 32" span, Sparky was huge.


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: flydean1 on December 11, 2020, 02:11:47 PM
Well done grasshopper, well done.


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Don McLellan on December 11, 2020, 03:36:28 PM
I like the colour choice Crabby. 


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on December 11, 2020, 04:03:12 PM
Geez IS it black? I was seeing a deep blue. Glad we are having this discussion!


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: flydean1 on December 11, 2020, 10:05:02 PM
My ancient eyeballs see black and red.


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on December 12, 2020, 09:59:52 AM
I have to get my eyes antique eyeballs checked. I am now convinced it does look black and red. I guess I must’ve had the orange light on! I am gonna have to get comfortable with black. It may take awhile. Maybe I will stick with my blue and orange and give it a fictitious serial number.


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: flydean1 on December 12, 2020, 10:34:28 AM
Hey man, it's your world, and they all like you there. :D


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Indoorflyer on December 12, 2020, 11:07:40 AM
Put your rose colored spectacles in your pocket, Crabby!  ;D  If ya had your heart set on blue, there is a nice blue and orange SR-8 in the Delta Airlines Museum, done up in early Northeast Airlines livery. The official colors are "Stinson Blue" and "International Orange."  On their website, they have a few pics, even a shot of the logo/emblem on the fuselage side,  that could be printed out and affixed to your Esaki...

https://www.deltamuseum.org/exhibits/exhibits/aircraft/stinson-reliant

See more web images if you google/search  on  "northeast airlines stinson reliant"

https://www.flugzeuginfo.net/images/museums/deltamuseum/sr-8e_northeastairlines_nc16181_deltaheritagemuseum_02.jpg


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on December 12, 2020, 01:02:20 PM
Thanks for that Indoor Flyer, AND after finding an article about NC 18445 in the Nov/Dec 2016 Vintage aircraft, it it described as being black, red, and gold. I will look for the gold. So that settles it. Either black and red, or I go with the Delta Airlines version, which is unquestionably the colors I like. I was thinking NC 18445 was a Dark Navy and orange. The orange comes from a graphic arts interpretation of what is known as warm red, which some swear is orange. Dark Navy to a layman's eye is virtually black. Whatever! I am now getting myself all turned on to do a black SR-7 NC 18445. Its just that way-out for me that its exciting in a taboo way. Two non colors Thee Olde Man expressly forbade in my watercolor box are black and white, so I am a little brainwashed still, and I refuse unintentionally, to see or interpret either. That's just how this kid was raised, and I still roll that way!


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on December 15, 2020, 08:49:25 PM
I was thinking about the plastic kits I have collected, and the Monogram Classics kit of the Grumman F3F is one I had to have because of the cool way you spin the prop and the landing gear retracts into the fuse. Well, the engine detail just happens to be a Pratt & Whitney AND it is a perfect fit! Its too heavy for a porker, but I can make a silicone mold and pour one from a lighter material. I found the gold on the plane...its the outline of the lightning bolt, the serial numbers, and the bow and arrow logo. But having the plastic motor fit in was a turn on!


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: OZPAF on December 16, 2020, 11:42:20 PM
It's definitely going to need a light copy of that Crabby. Nice.

John


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on December 19, 2020, 01:59:54 PM
After some fence-sitting over the color matter I decided to try an enlarged mock up of the lightning bolt detail on the fuse and wheel pants. I think I can so this for the Reliant, but its gonna take some micro-sharp surgical blades, and at least a half hours' meditation period to calm the clutter. I went out and bought cheap gold wrapping tissue, gold paint pens, tiny brushes etc. As usual I went beserk buying "S" I won't use. After 3 attempts with acrylics and swearing, I wised up and cut the red, doped it on the gold, cut around it, then doped it on to the black. You have to have something behind the red or the black will swallow the whole thing up when you dope it. Paint pens are out with dope (of course)>


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: THB on December 19, 2020, 06:12:31 PM
That's a bit 'flash' there Crabby!   :)
Thanks again for the advice here on the cowl bumps - worked a treat.
Stinson looking great.
Tim


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: OZPAF on December 21, 2020, 07:04:35 PM
That's neat Crabby!

John


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: bgrove on December 21, 2020, 08:27:04 PM
Wow!!  Great work Crabby.  I don't know if I have the nerve to try cowl 'nipples'??? what are they called  :)


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: ghostler on December 21, 2020, 08:29:46 PM
Wow!!  Great work Crabby.  I don't know if I have the nerve to try cowl 'nipples'??? what are they called  :)

I think you mean the rocker arm covers making clearance for the tight cowling around the engine?


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on December 22, 2020, 10:29:58 AM
I have been critical of the sad and anemic looking wheel pants the plans provided, and was thinking go with them since I was gonna stick with the plan, AND Lurker applauded the Flash Gordon appeal they had, but they got me itchy, so I redid 'em fatter and shapelier.
Bgrove I'll be damned. Just when I'd thought I'd heard everything, now you come up with cowl nipples! You cut me to the quick! Even on the farm they they aren't called that! Thanks Ghostler for saving the day! The correct and widely accepted term, is "cowl bumps" however! :o :o >:( :( ;D ;D ;D :D


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: OZPAF on December 23, 2020, 06:55:48 PM
The mind boggles at the number of young cowls that could be fed with off a Cowl with that many feeding points  :D :D

John


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Pete1978 on December 23, 2020, 08:16:32 PM
Wow!!  Great work Crabby.  I don't know if I have the nerve to try cowl 'nipples'??? what are they called  :)

I think you mean the rocker arm covers making clearance for the tight cowling around the engine?

I always knew them as 'blisters'. 'Nipples' are usually for greasing!  :P


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: ghostler on December 23, 2020, 10:46:56 PM
I'd say more including that of nose art, but then we would be departing from the "G" rating of this forum. :-X ;D


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on December 24, 2020, 02:35:45 PM
Good afternoon comrades and happy holidays, however you do it!
Thanks for checking in to my post and making the highly relevant comments! Here are a couple props I carved, one is 8.5 the smaller is 7.75. I think I am going to have to use one of them as the plastic props are going to be too heavy. What is a pound to an elephant? Its a little late in the game to be weight conscious, we shall never fit into the skinny jeans here, but just maybe a curvy Rubenesque model will still foxtrot if we go a little easier on the knees! Who has what to say about which prop to use? Or do I carve another


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: TimWescott on December 24, 2020, 03:53:49 PM
It's not in need of nose weight?  If it is, wouldn't a heavy prop be an advantage, seeing how it's way out in front?


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on December 24, 2020, 04:21:24 PM
Dollars to donuts you are correct Tim, but in reality after I carved 2 props, one of them is going on this plane! I am anticipating nose heavy and hope I am wrong as usual!


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: flydean1 on December 24, 2020, 05:27:36 PM
The shorter prop will be easier to trim for.


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: OZPAF on December 24, 2020, 05:41:17 PM
I'll second FD - the smaller prop would be better I feel. Your wingspan is something like 18"?

John


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on December 24, 2020, 09:02:00 PM
26!


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: OZPAF on December 25, 2020, 08:29:40 PM
My eye estimate of the WS was more than a bit off :D

Then you would think it should be able to handle the large one as it is still only around 30% of the WS.

John


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: ghostler on December 25, 2020, 10:55:32 PM
Hope I don't sound nit-picky. Comet plans and box art have wingspan as 25 inches.

https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=979 (https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=979) Scanned plan and parts sheets.

https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=978 (https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=978) Paul Bradley redone in CAD printed to PDF.

Back in 1966, I agreed to help a friend build his Comet Kit 3209 SR-7. I remember the plans stating to leave the underside of the wings uncovered. I had it half way framed up, when as a 12 YO, my dad retired from the Air Force and we were moving away. I returned the partially assembled kit back to him.


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: flydean1 on December 25, 2020, 11:08:41 PM
I remain convinced of the shorter prop.  Scale models cannot tolerate large diameter props like duration models.  Go small, you will thank me later.


Title: Re: Comet Stinson Reliant
Post by: Crabby on December 27, 2020, 10:41:40 AM
Hope I don't sound nit-picky. Comet plans and box art have wingspan as 25 inches.
   OOPS I did it again!

I got involved in some silicone mold-making. Per the instructions on you tube I mixed a batch of soapy water, then added silicone. Then wearing rubber gloves I kneaded the goopy mass into a ball, then pressed the part a plastic model engine, (that is a perfect make and size for the Reliant) into the  ball and waited forever for it to set. A failure. It never completely set so I read up on a setting agent for silicone, corn starch. I know, easy gets harder every day. Just cut the picture from the plan and get done son. For some reason I am more inclined to take the nettle path thru the woods.