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Outdoor Free Flight Forum => Power => Topic started by: Russ Lister on July 22, 2008, 06:52:39 PM



Title: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: Russ Lister on July 22, 2008, 06:52:39 PM
I have just read in the SAM 1066 online newsletter that there will be a celebration event in the UK for the 50th year of George Fuller's 'Dixielander' design in 2009.
This event coincides with my own 50th birthday ... I am not one for parties for myself, so what better excuse than to attend this party so that I can get out of the way! (my wife IS one for parties)
I have never built a gas duration model however - would this be a suitable introductory model? (I must add that I am not a raw beginner if you do not know me already)

Russ


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: applehoney on July 22, 2008, 10:50:22 PM
Well, Russ .. they sold 6000 kits and there weren't that many 'experts' so you should be okay. It's a stable, forgiving airplane and if you don't overpower it too much you shouldn't have any problems.

One of our Leeds glider flyers, Jack Kay - sadly long since departed - built a Dixie as his first-ever power model. It was also his last-ever. He fired up the AM35 (am pretty sure it was the 35), got all excited and let go.... hadn't set the timer or lit a fuse... perfect pattern... up out of sight.. never seen again.

You won't do that, will ya?


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: Ployd on July 23, 2008, 07:52:20 AM
Hi Russ

Heartily endorse the D/lander as THE ideal introductory open power model if you have never flown a gas model. I'm working on my 4th at the moment (much modified but in essence a D/lander). Use a good PAW 2.5, OS 15 or 19, Cox TD 15 or any light 2.5 diesel or glow or a PAW 09 CT diesel.
The only mod I would recommend is to reduce the wing warps shown on the plan by 1/2, doesn't need any more.

Ployd in OZ


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: PeeTee on July 23, 2008, 08:12:48 AM
Good on yer Russ

I recently bought a batch of 80's Aeromodellers at MW, and it just so happens that the Aug 86 one has an article by Pete Harris on Dixielanders and SLOP trimming in general. As a sport power flyer only (I can't call E30 & CO2 power!) I found the advice to be easily understood, and based on what my southern "noisy boys" chums tell me, spot on. As you probably know, until his untimely death at Barkston a few years ago, Peter was a power flyer par excellence.

If you don't have the issue, send me an e-mail & I'll pop a copy in the post.

Peter


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: Russ Lister on July 23, 2008, 06:28:25 PM
Thanks for the advice all ... I do feel as though it is one of those things that I haven't done that I would at least like to try. Even though I would feel a bit out of it amongst the experienced flyers this event is bound to draw, it would at least show that the design is still attracting new builders.
I would try to avoid the temptation I regularly succumb to with other gas designs ... a conversion to electric ...
The article also calls for people from overseas that cannot make it to the meeting to organise something in their own country ...

Thanks for the offer (once again) Peter - I have a feeling that I might have that Aeromodeller so I will have have a check first thanks.


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: glidermaster on July 25, 2008, 05:37:39 PM
Just to keep the juices flowing, here's the little 3 view from the Aeromodeller at about the time the kit was released.

I've built 2 - one had quite a lot of mods (VIT and A/R for instance), and my current one is std. with Cox TD15. Speaking personally I would opt for a smoother running engine than the Cox, the vibration in my current model is not pleasant. An OS I think might be a better bet.

Dave Hipperson wrote extensively in the early/mid 90's (Aeromodeller again) in a series 'A Cautious Return to Power Flying' which was framed around the Dixielander - that's a series worth seeking out.

John


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: applehoney on July 25, 2008, 06:58:54 PM
I told George over fifty years ago that I didn't like that tall ugly pylon! Never built one because of it ... ;D

I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.... it's still a great airplane.


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: Tmat on July 26, 2008, 11:38:30 PM
Jim might be interested to know that the Dixielander was the first "big" power model I ever built. I found the plan in an old aeromodeller that was loaned to me by a friend of my father's. I used a cox t.d. 15 and a homemade timer that used the innards from a camera timer. The model flew great and floated very slowly. Stable and forgiving is what I'd call it. But to my 15 year old eyes it was too slow! By then I was used to my 1/2A models that climbed much faster than the Dixielander. Incidentally, while on the subject of vintage UK power models, my very first free flight power model was a Slowworm. It also flew great. It wasn't long before I made them with much thinner lower cambered airfoils and got them moving pretty fast!
In fact, my first FAI power model (Frank Schlacta's Loon design if you must know) seemed slow to me too! And that was with a Rossi!

Tmat
-the Dixielander brings back memories...


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: glidermaster on December 17, 2008, 02:47:07 PM
It's pretty slow in the Power section these days (other than Scott's steady output), so what better time to remind readers of what Russ said at the top of this thread.
It's also snowing in the Vancouver area as I type (a pretty rare event it must be said), and naturally one's thoughts are turning to the building board and what to put on it.


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: applehoney on December 17, 2008, 07:13:59 PM
Quote
Frank Schlacta's Loon design if you must know) seemed slow to me too!

Ah, yes, Tony..... but Frank's airplanes of that time were SO much faster coming down ...... :P


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: glidermaster on December 18, 2008, 07:05:06 PM
We should get some discussion on building Dixielanders going.
It is, of course supremely simple to build - at least the airframe is. What is not so easy is the engine mount/tank/pylon arrangement - that is, I found it quite challenging. It would be quite easy to adapt to a bladder tank, but not so easy to fully accomodate a bladder. One of mine had a disc valve engine which required wholesale revision of the fuselage at the front, and the timer ended up behind the pylon.
Also the wings have been known to part in the middle as it can be quite a fast model with the right engine.
GM


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: Ployd on January 17, 2009, 06:58:50 AM
Hi Glidemaster

The best way to keep a Dixielander wing in one piece is to reinforce the centre joint with a single 3/32" ply dihedral keeper at the two spar lines and extend them into the second rib bay and web the spars in the two center panels with 1/32" vertical grain balsa; that will tame a hot 15 ;) If you use a Seelig timer it usually finishes up behind the pylon (anywhere else usually finishes up with a broken fuselage or a ripped out pylon... ask me about it :-[ ). If you do use a hot 15 then you can safely reduce the warps quoted on the plan, 3/8" is a bit much :o

As you will be aware there is a 50th anniversary event being flown in the Uk this year and a similar event is also being conducted in OZ. I have been task by our organisers to come up with a stick-on or transfer to mark the event and rough draft is shown below.

Ployd in OZ


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: faif2d on January 17, 2009, 02:11:31 PM
I will, with your permission, make a copy of the decal and blow it up to T shirt size. OK?


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: Russ Lister on January 17, 2009, 04:43:12 PM
Great design Ployd :)
I hope the Oz event is just as successful as I feel the UK event is going to be. As I mentioned before, power duration is not my usual thing, but I hope to be at the event in the UK even if just as a spectator.


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: Ployd on January 17, 2009, 08:49:44 PM
Hi faif2d
Be my guest, you are welcome to use it.

Ployd in OZ


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: glidermaster on January 19, 2009, 07:58:43 PM
Great Sticker, Ployd - just perfect.
Are scaled versions going to be allowed? George himself had the E Type Dixie for Eta 29, and a bigger one for Fox 59. Dick Johnson had a big one for K&B 40 - then there was the John West variant and Lindstrum's Chiclander. Some of us discussed a 'Pixielander' 1/2A some time ago, too. They were all clearly identifiable as Dixielanders.

George also flew a slightly stretched version in Slow Open that I really liked - with an OS20FP - I wish I had a picture I could refer to; that one should have been published. A commercial engine mount and an upright engine solved some of the problems I refered to earlier.

John
- almost reaching for the wood box.


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: Ployd on January 19, 2009, 09:16:45 PM
Hi John

The answer is no; we have followed SAMS UK in that only the original kitted model is allowed (no scaling).
We have allowed builders to use geodetic wing and stab construction and to add nose ribs i.e first 30% of chord but no sheeting. Doing it this way allows the model to be used in open power or with a 1.5 cc diesel, OZ Diesel duration.

What we in OZ have done is arranged for a short kit to be produced with selected strip wood, laser cut ribs and a plan; a Tee shirt will come from George Fuller and I will be providing the stick-on transfer and an alternative Tee shirt iron-on. You could say we ised organized ;D

faif2d; If you want a bigger version without the degradation of scaling up the image posted here let me know offline.

Ployd in a HOT OZ (39C)


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: glidermaster on January 21, 2009, 12:53:09 PM
I had a letter from George Fuller at Christmas, congratulating me on my choice of Trad Lad for vintage FAI, and saying that he is very much enjoying flying electric these days. He said he likes the cleanliness, and thinks they will be as fast as gas models pretty soon. He promised me one of the T shirts, too!

Johnson/Fuller products came out with an updated kit in the early 70's (modified engine bearers, slightly stronger pylon, slightly taller fin with swept shape and A/R) - I guess that one's out too (I have the plan, if anyone's interested).

I'm heading to OZ in March, Ployd, turn the temperature down a little before I come, will you :)


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: Ployd on January 21, 2009, 08:56:04 PM
Hi glidermaster

I cannot promise you that the furnace temp will be turned down before you come out, part of the deal of living in a hot brown land ;) Where abouts will you be heading for down under? and bring some anti-nausia pills because you will be walking up side down and that takes a bit of getting use to :D

As For the Fuller/Johnston products; nope, don't qualify either.

Ployd still in a HOT OZ (35c)


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: Ployd on April 12, 2009, 08:12:33 AM
Just got my first look at the commemorative Tee Shirt that will be available for the Dixielander event, bright enough :o

Ployd in OZ


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: grathosas on August 08, 2009, 11:38:31 AM
All,
A little late on the follow up but a comment and then a question. First FF power I ever saw was a Dixie with the ED246 in Huddersfield!! Flew like a charm, have loved them since!! Now I live in good ole Dixie!!!!

Any info on the shirts would be appreciated. Question, any one had any experience with an Oliver (repro not org!!!!) on pressure for the Dixie!!! What if any advantages are there?

Tks for the info on the build improvements will add.


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: applehoney on August 08, 2009, 12:45:52 PM
Quote
in Huddersfield

Surely you mean 'uddersfield ??  ;D


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: grathosas on August 08, 2009, 07:39:05 PM
AH,
I stand corrected!!! It is a long time since I have heard it put this way, memories!!!!


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: glidermaster on August 08, 2009, 07:45:52 PM
I have an Oliver repro (CS) and it is a fine motor - the only 'defect' being that the contra piston was rather tight.
No doubt you (and everyone) is aware that Olivers are now back in production - not in Dorset, anymore, but still using the original Oliver tooling, and overseen by Mr. Oliver himself. I believe deliveries have started, and in true Oliver fashion, I also believe there's a waiting list.

So far as using an Oliver as a powerplant for a Dixelander is concerned, I feel it might be rather heavy. For sure the model has an ultra short nose, but they balance on the trailing edge, and an Oliver might make tail ballast necessary. Not a huge deal, I suppose, but something to bear in mind.

John


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: craig h on August 09, 2009, 09:59:46 AM
I also being a first timer for the attempt of flying power have selected the Dixielander... but I have other models to finish. I have gave some thoughts of trying a FOX engine. Any thoughts on this? I have also thought of obtaining a kit .... who should I contact? Wouldn't mind a shirt as well.

Thanks...


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: applehoney on August 09, 2009, 10:52:03 AM
Quote
I have also thought of obtaining a kit

The only curves in a Dixie are the ribs - build from a plan and save all the time in finding, ordering and waiting for a kit ... build with probably better wood selection .. and, oh yes .. save money. Faster, better, cheaper ... what more can you ask?


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: craig h on August 09, 2009, 01:25:45 PM
 Ok gentleman...let me get this straight now...are we talking about the Dixielander are the "Yeoman" Dixielander? Are there any pics of the Dixielander?

Thanks....Craig h


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: applehoney on August 09, 2009, 02:21:01 PM
Quote
Dixielander are the "Yeoman" Dixielander?

Same thing. George's 'Dixielander' was kitted by Yeoman


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: grathosas on August 09, 2009, 04:33:27 PM
Craig H,
Lee Campbell and Jim O'reilly offer plans and short kits , I have both of their plans but have not seen the kits, both are in CAD form. If you do not have the websites PM me will send.

Glidemaster, did not know about Ollie being back in prodn , can you send contact details ( reason I need parts esp needele valves).
On the weight will check as I have other 2.5 diesels , I know Dave Platt used the ollie in his Slow worm so could use it in it, the other will be electric as will one of the Dixies!!!!!! Just don't tell Dan B !!!!


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: applehoney on August 09, 2009, 05:11:52 PM
I have a Yeoman plan I can copy, if required.

Olivers are now being built by Tom Ridley in England, with John Oliver as consultant - last info I took note of, some months ago, was that he was working on Tigers Mk 3, 4, 5, Cubs and Majors.  Email contact is: [email protected]


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: glidermaster on August 10, 2009, 12:14:28 PM
Power for a Dixielander;

A Fox 15 (the old plain bearing versions) would be ideal as they are light and compact.
In my opinion Applehoney is right, if you can cut ribs, you can build a Dixie, and a kit is a bit unnecessary.

Dave Hipperson wrote a series of articles in Aeromodeller in the mid 90's - A Cautious Return to F/F Power (or something like that), and it was framed around building a Dixie for an AM35 diesel. Of the 2 I've built, I have to say I got in some difficulty getting the engine bearers, and pylon together with a tank big enough for more than about 20 secs of fuel, and the Hipperson articles are very good in this particular respect. I can copy/scan if it would of help.

John


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: Ployd on August 12, 2009, 09:08:45 AM
Quote
A Fox 15 (the old plain bearing versions) would be ideal as they are light and compact
Have to concurr with Glidemaster on this choice. My first Dixie was powered by such an engine (57 vertical plug version) running an 8 x 4 nylon on 20% nitro. A better choice is an OS15 FP with the ABN piston and liner (if you can find one!) using an 8 x 3.75 or 8 x 3 wood propeller with the blades thinned out and balanced and running 25% nitro.

Ployd in OZ


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: glidermaster on August 12, 2009, 11:20:45 AM
Ployd is right about the OS15FP.

It is an ideal engine for anyone wanting to get started in contest f/f power. I have 2, they run very well on suction if need be, though suction is not my first choice fuel feed arrangement.

They come with an effective std. silencer, and they run pretty darn well with the silencer on if you're so inclined.

A great choice for a Dixie.

John


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: craig h on August 12, 2009, 06:32:24 PM
Question ? Is the OS15FP with ABN piston and liner nostalgia legal in the US?

Craig h


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: glidermaster on August 12, 2009, 06:47:22 PM
The OS 15FP would not be nostalgia legal anywhere I don't think.

John


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: RobinB on August 22, 2009, 04:25:13 AM
George is a clubmate of mine, so I get to pick his brains about Dixielanders. If you're building one, you should know that the warps should be 3 degrees, not 3/8 of an inch. It makes a difference!

Apparently, the kit plan was drawn up by Ron Warring and he misread the notes.

If it helps,

Robin


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: Ployd on August 23, 2009, 08:13:51 AM
Robin wrote:
Quote
If you're building one, you should know that the warps should be 3 degrees, not 3/8 of an inch

If you build the warps in at 3 degrees you finish up with 3/8" washin or washout (draw it out with a straight line and protractor and measure the angular difference on a chord of 7").
2 degrees gives about 1/4" and 1.5 degrees gives 3/16", would suggest you check with George again.

Ployd in OZ



Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: RobinB on August 23, 2009, 09:06:59 AM
You're absolutely right, Peter, but George definitely said '3 degrees' tho' I know for a fact that he uses 1/4". One of us is losing the plot - as he's older than me I'll say it's him ;-)

Robin


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: Hepcat on August 23, 2009, 11:54:35 AM
As one who has not flown power since the 1950s I am ever ready to pass an opinion! My understanding for many years has been that the 3/8" on early drawings was about right for the way the Dixies were then flown and the power then available but a reduction in wash-in was necessary later as more powerful motors were used.
John


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: Ployd on August 23, 2009, 08:18:30 PM
Hi John

I think that 3/8" washin/washout even for low powered engines is still excessive as it would act more like a drag flap than an aid to increasing wing lift on the inner wing to counteract torque roll and as model speed increased (with low power) the drag/lift benefits would be marginal and the correctional forces reduced.
It is noted that George uses 1/4" (I use 3/16") and even that can be a little too much sometimes

Ployd in OZ


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: Russ Lister on August 30, 2009, 04:42:23 PM
Just back from Middle Wallop - the weather had a good try at ruining things for the day but there was still plenty of Dixielanders taking to the skies ... and plenty of bright orange T shirts! 8)

I didn't manage to join in after all, but I hope that all involved managed to have a good time in the wind and drizzle.


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: PeeTee on August 30, 2009, 05:04:43 PM
Russ

Sorry to hear that the weather was inclement, as it wasn't too bad a mere 60 miles north east in Ealing! I'm off there tomorrow & am sorry that I'll miss you - unless you are going back again :D

Peter


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: Russ Lister on August 30, 2009, 07:44:16 PM
Have a good day Peter... the forecast certainly looks better for Monday.

The Middle Wallop visit was tied into the end of a holiday. I didn't want to put my wife through three days of a flying meeting, but she did end up enjoying the two days.

I miss the scale event on Monday... it was the one I really wanted to see. :-\

I ended up spending at least six hours searching for a rapier model... lost on the Saturday and found on the Sunday! Worth it for the four minute plus flight - no exact time because it was a trimming flight!


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: Ployd on September 02, 2009, 08:48:57 AM
Pictures, we want pictures!

Roy Summersby sent me the picture of his just finished Dixielander complete with an Ozzie Rothwell 250 (Olly clone) for power.

Ployd in OZ


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: PeeTee on September 02, 2009, 09:14:55 AM
Sadly, I didn't go on the Sunday so have no pictures to post. All I can tell you is that the Dixielander event was won by Colin Foster, a noted northern expert in power & glider.

Peter T


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: applehoney on September 02, 2009, 09:52:23 AM
My old club continues to be strong in F/F


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: Russ Lister on September 02, 2009, 12:38:37 PM
Sorry, no pictures from me either - the almost constant slight drizzle meant the camera stayed in the car.


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: gossie on September 02, 2009, 05:09:11 PM
Pictures, we want pictures!

Roy Summersby sent me the picture of his just finished Dixielander complete with an Ozzie Rothwell 250 (Olly clone) for power.

Ployd in OZ

That's one helluva motor for a Dixie. I wonder if Roy's trimmed it yet?


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: glidermaster on September 05, 2009, 02:06:59 PM
Here's a few shots of my Dixielander - COX TD15 powered - that was THE classic Dixielander set up. John West etc etc

It's a light model - barely 13 oz.

John


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: glidermaster on September 05, 2009, 02:12:33 PM
A couple more shots - pretty much per plan - weight 13 oz.

JB


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: glidermaster on September 05, 2009, 02:15:53 PM
I increased the rake angle on the pylon to give me a bit more room for the tank - which is between the front bulkhead and the pylon.

Bad vibration has killed my interest in this model, so it hasn't flown since '02. Maybe it'd make a good candidate for electric??

CG is 1" aft of the wing trailing edge. Other than the vibration it flew very well.

JB


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: gossie on September 05, 2009, 06:23:33 PM
Vibration? Is that the way those engines were? Or is it the prop?


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: glidermaster on September 08, 2009, 07:46:46 PM
I think the Cox had a bit of a reputation for vibration, Gos.
There's probably a bit of a 'poor build' factor in there, too - I built it pretty quickly.

It's not the prop., though, I'm pretty careful about those.
John


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: Ployd on September 09, 2009, 08:41:11 AM
You are right about the COX 15 it is a vibrator >:( Jon Fletcher has a dixie powered by a Cox 15 and you could shave a beard with the edge of the piston :o top end heavy.
Love your trim on the Dixie you built Glidermaster, it has inspired me!

Ployd in OZ


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: Ployd on September 28, 2009, 07:57:35 AM
We have the first photo of the Dixielander Flyin held in West Australia on the weekend of August 30. They had 10 models present but after some prangs only 8 were still in one piece to put in official flights. Yep that is their flying field.
The boys on the East coast have their flyin this coming weekend and it is reputed that about 18 will turn up. More photos to follow.

Ployd in OZ


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: Ployd on October 04, 2009, 06:13:30 AM
Hello All
Well, the Dixielander weekend for the East coast of Australia has been run and done and we attracted 19 starters, they all flew and only 2 were rekitted.
Weather was perfect; light rain all day Saturday with little or no drift (very wet underfoot) and overcast with little or no drift on the Sunday morning.
Engine choice was varied and ranged from Rothwell 150 diesel (Olly Cub copy) to OS 15's of all descriptions, PAW 1.5's and 2.5's, COX TD15's and a Russian UCKTAM 1.5 glow with a pipe :o
All participants qualified for a personally autographed tee shirt from George Fuller. We will be doing it all again next year and including the Stomper and Zoot Suit designs to make it a Fuller (pun) weekend.

Ployd in OZ


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: glidermaster on October 05, 2009, 03:38:55 PM
That sounds great Ployd.
Who won?
Which model in the pic had the piped engine?

One model to the far right seems to have union jack construction on wing and tail, which is probably not a bad modification, if a little questionable on the design fidelity front!

Sandra Drew once said that if there was prize for having the most fun flying free flight, George Fuller would ALWAYS win. I'm sure he's having a great time hearing accounts of all the Dixielander flying going on right now.

John


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: Ployd on October 06, 2009, 07:31:09 AM
Hi Glidemaster

Answers are as follows:
The far end Dixie (red, white and blue model with orange tips) belongs to Jon Fletcher, ex pom, and it is a geodetic wing and stab. Power is a very much internally modified COX TD 15 with a Nelson plug head (photo of head on my website under Fletcher products).

Next is a photo of Terry Bond's piped Dixie under going a plug change (will be converted to Nelson head).

Next is the winning model by Vin Morgan. More or less standard Dixie powered by an OS15 FP. Unique is the the fact that it has an electronic timer driving 2 micro servos that operate the engine cut out and DT concealed within the fuselage. 2 other models also used OZ made two function electronic timers.

Next is my model again not standard in having extra ribs in the wing and stab (our rules were a little more lax than those followed at the English event, you could do pretty well what you liked with the structure BUT no sheeted surfaces which ruled out dee box wings and stabs).

Lastly the go department for my model. Modified OS15 FP with Nelson plug and carbon 8 x 3.75 prop. Engine cut out is a variation of control line cut out and is operated by a F1C Seelig timer.

Ployd in OZ


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: RobinB on October 07, 2009, 10:16:31 AM
Sandra Drew once said that if there was prize for having the most fun flying free flight, George Fuller would ALWAYS win. I'm sure he's having a great time hearing accounts of all the Dixielander flying going on right now.

3 weeks ago he was flying an E30 electric Dixielander, which never got more than 50 ft. high. One flight went straight into a streamer pole, and the only one that could have maxed d/t'd 5 secs early. Despite all that, and the fact that he's not 100 percent healthy, he seemed to enjoy himself twice as much as anyone else there. Unstoppable!

Robin


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: glidermaster on October 07, 2009, 11:02:17 AM
I remember in about the late 80's he had what appeared to be a standard Dixie with an OS35 in it, and it got a lot higher than 50 ft.

At the nats a certain ex-control line flier was bragging how his Slow Open Model was the fastest thing on the field (this was in the day when you could use up to a .60 in Slow Open!). Then George flew his OS35 Dixie, and the ex-control line guy went quiet all of a sudden.

George would approve of the piped model in Oz. He LOVED tuned pipes.

JB


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: danberry on October 08, 2009, 12:36:45 AM
Denny Dock has been flying Dixielanders with flat bottom wings and modern engines. He HAS added geodetic ribs. The big one has a 6 or 7.5 K&B. It is some kinda impressive.


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: RobinB on October 19, 2009, 05:24:42 AM
At yesterday's last Area competition of the year, there was a picture of the Western Australia Dixielander flyers taped to the CD's table, along with the picture (from you, PLloyd?) of one with a ramjet on top of the wing!

George is thinking about another contest for all the published Fuller designs.

Robin


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: John on December 09, 2009, 09:44:46 AM
Dave Hipperson wrote a series of articles in Aeromodeller in the mid 90's - A Cautious Return to F/F Power (or something like that), and it was framed around building a Dixie for an AM35 diesel. Of the 2 I've built, I have to say I got in some difficulty getting the engine bearers, and pylon together with a tank big enough for more than about 20 secs of fuel, and the Hipperson articles are very good in this particular respect. I can copy/scan if it would of help.

I think I might have these articles somewhere in my workshop but cannot find at the moment so would you be able to copy/scan them for me John, as Jim kindly copied and sent me the plan which has got me thinking about building it for next year. I have a PAW 2.5 that I could use for power

John


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: applehoney on December 09, 2009, 10:17:11 AM
I got in some difficulty getting the engine bearers, and pylon together with a tank big enough for more than about 20 secs of fuel

True enough, 7.5cc is enough if you get a quick start and release ... However it's not writ in stone that the tank has to be that size, or fit neatly between the fuselage sides as shown on the plan. A larger tank could be mounted on the side of the fuselage - ugly but practical - but better to be between bearers and protruding through a side, with a soft balsa fairing around it.

Photo's not a Dixie, of course ... but on of the only two models I have that are fitted with hard tanks, as fitted with diesels. This one was an interesting assembly with a rear induction engine mated up to a timer on one side and a tank through the other, and fuel line length kept to a minimum


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: glidermaster on December 09, 2009, 11:34:02 AM
John,

Yes, I have the Hipperson Aeromodeller articles scanned - send me an email address (PM is good), and I will forward them.

John


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: John on December 10, 2009, 08:33:35 AM
Thanks John have sent you a message offline with my e-mail address.


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: Ivanhoe on December 28, 2009, 07:09:46 PM
I built a Dixielander from the original Aeromodeller plan when it was first published, as far as I remember I put an AM 25 (only engine I could afford back then) in it, and it still climbed like a homesick angel!

Really upsets me to realise that was 50 years ago!


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: mick66 on May 10, 2011, 02:51:54 PM
Hi

latest model ready to trim ... 14oz, Tissue over 10micron mylar and a Norvel PB, Nelson Head on pressure.

Cheers

Mike


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: RobinB on May 10, 2011, 03:23:15 PM
Nice.
Latex balloon looks quite short - how much can you pump into it?
Robin


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: mick66 on May 11, 2011, 03:45:54 AM
Robin

I push 20cc in on .15 motors and 25cc in on .19 motors.  The tubing is from TexasTimers.  I use the same system on all my glow motors.  Works pretty well.

Gives a run of about 35 secs off the top of my head ... enough for 15 second start up and fiddle, flight then flood off

I think the piece of tube is about 1.5" long when I start to build the bladder.

Cheers

Mike


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: ddock on May 11, 2011, 10:58:18 PM
VERY nice Dixie...Makes me want to start cutting!!
DD


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: hastf1b on July 14, 2011, 12:03:07 PM
My DIXIELANDER build in 1998 from a Yeoman kit. Engine 1,5 ccm MVVS.

Heinz


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: glidermaster on July 14, 2011, 01:50:53 PM
Nice Heinz!
How did it go?

Rare to see a 1.5cc in a Dixielander. Dixies in the UK contained some pretty big motors - designer George Fuller himself had a standard size one with a .35 in it, John West had a standard sized version with a G.15 (and described trimming as 'envigorating'). No auto surfaces, either!

The best, most successful combo. (I think) was with a Cox Special - light and lively (if you fed it the right amount of nitro - i.e. over 30%).

John


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: Tmat on July 14, 2011, 02:28:00 PM
My first Dixie (first model larger than a 1/2A) used a cox special 2.5 cc with bladder tank and modified camera timer. The model was very light and quick but those TD engines vibrated something fierce!


Tony
-was it really 30 years ago?? :'(


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: hastf1b on July 14, 2011, 03:07:28 PM
John, I used a 1,5 ccm engine for the former german class F1C-X.

Tony, in the early fiftys we used "Autoknips" timer.

I have used this timer on my first power model "Swiss Miss" in 1957.

Heinz


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: glidermaster on July 15, 2011, 12:46:26 PM
I agree Tony, about the Cox Special. I still have a Dixielander with a Cox, and I've stopped flying it because of the vibration. On your other point, only you can say if it really was 30 years ago!

I have several timers with Autoknips movements - mostly my Dad's, but one is in a F1C, which dates back even further than Tony's Dixielander, and another in a ETA 29 open model - the fuselage of which dates back to 1966, and the timer still runs beautifully. Dad died in '92, but I have flown both these models from time to time since.

You can still pick them up on eBay for under $20.

John

p.s. I just took the attached pictures - the first time this model has been put together for better part of 10 years!


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: Tmat on July 15, 2011, 03:22:37 PM
That looks familiar John! Except that mine was covered in boring all orange tissue (double covered on the bottom of the wing).

Tony
-yes it was 30 years ago! :o ::)


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: PeeTee on July 15, 2011, 04:05:35 PM
Quote
yes it was 30 years ago

I have to say that I'm impressed with under 10 year old boys flying Cox powered Dixielanders ;)


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: Tmat on July 15, 2011, 04:36:13 PM
I started young, but not quite that young! I think I built my cox powered Dixie when I was 14 or 15. First F1C at 16. Made my first Canadian team (F1C) at 17.


Tmat


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: gossie on July 15, 2011, 05:39:27 PM
I started young, but not quite that young! I think I built my cox powered Dixie when I was 14 or 15. First F1C at 16. Made my first Canadian team (F1C) at 17.


Tmat


My memory is a bit hazy.   Were you at the OZ WC in '83 or was it Yugo '85 or both?   Can remember you flew power, and we did speak briefly at processing.


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: glidermaster on July 15, 2011, 05:57:17 PM
Holy Cow! on the team at 17, Tony, way to go!
I built my first power model when I was about 11, my first Dixie when I was 13, and started F1C when I was 20. I never made a team (was reserve '85), never won anything in fact, and quit winless in '94 at nearly 40. However, I am dabbling again in F1C, and with so few flying, surely I can win something this time!

Back to Dixielanders, quick  :D

John


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: Tmat on July 15, 2011, 06:47:46 PM
Gossie,
I was at Burgos in '81, Oz in '83 and Livno in '85 for F1C.

This year in Argentina marked my 10th W/C participation! (F1C and F1B)

Tony


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: gossie on July 15, 2011, 07:36:13 PM
Ah I feel better now, it was both Oz & Yugo.  Memory still working.

Have never built a..............??????? What were we talking about?


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: Sandgroper on November 28, 2011, 09:00:04 PM
We have the first photo of the Dixielander Flyin held in West Australia on the weekend of August 30. They had 10 models present but after some prangs only 8 were still in one piece to put in official flights. Yep that is their flying field.
The boys on the East coast have their flyin this coming weekend and it is reputed that about 18 will turn up. More photos to follow.

Ployd in OZ
Thanks for posting this Peter it was a fantastic day,the field used to be even better, there is a new dam in the top left of the picture as you can see which can be interesting if we have to fly from the north east end of the paddock.I am holding up the orange Dixielander at the rear-not often we have trouble fitting everyone in a photo.After running a 10FP then a 15LA in it I have fitted a brand spankers OS Max 111 .15 from the US to make it more era correct.


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: Sandgroper on November 30, 2011, 01:22:32 AM
Chris and George Fullers Open Dixielanders from the 70-71 Aeromodeller Annual-hope it`s clear enought.If you open with windows picture viewer click actual size for better detail.
Phil


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: Sandgroper on November 30, 2011, 06:03:32 AM
Here are a few pics of my John West Dixielander and one of me launching  my standard version with a OS10FP glow,some have been posted already but this thread is more suitable.
It  now weighs 13.25 oz with a OS 10FP diesel,I did not use the 1/16in wash in on the LH inner as John has on the drawing,it has spruce front spars top and bottom,fuselage has a 3/32 ply doubler extending 1 1/2in past the pylon on the timer side to mount everthing on, also a spruce front spar on the tailplane other wise its the same as the John West version .The forward raked  pylon gives a little more room for a  bigger tank although my orange Dixie has a smaller tank and has no problems with the 15LA up front.
I only use 5% to 15% nitro fuel which helps the fuel economy,nitro adds power but is a poor fuel.
The 15LA pulls a 7x4 APC at over 19,900RPM(19,995 if the tacho was to be believed) on 5% nitro with a high compression turbo plug head and is 1/3oz(10g) lighter than the15FP,std venturi and needle valve,no mods apart from the head,even std they pull 18,000RPM with a LC3 or LC4 plug and 15% nitro
I rarely move the needle more than a click all day just start it up followed by a quick warm up until she peaks then guide her away gently without throwing.
Mike Beilbys FOX 15X pulled a 7x4 Master at 17,700 RPM on 40% nitro in a extended wing Climax- it used to flutter going straight up,Mike says he did very well at the British Nats  years ago almost taking out Open Power with a TeeDee 049 powered No Thrills.
The diesel 10LA was as fast as the glow 10LA but was poor starting with the fuel I had on the day so I put the glow head on to fly-do that with a PAW. It has since been replaced by a 10FP when it got a little sand in it and I hit it with the starter-exit 10LA .
With less warps the climb has less roll as the speed builds up and apart from reducing tail incidence with 1/32 packing on the front mount and shaving 1/32 off the rear mount it flew off the board.CG is 5/16in behind the trailing edge.
The launch shot was taken last year a few months before my heart attack,I have lost a few pounds since then,the paddock is one of our spares down the road from the 2009 field we flew the George Fuller 50th event in.

Phil


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: gossie on November 30, 2011, 03:33:05 PM
Neat aeroplanes 'Groper. :)


Title: Re: Dixielander 50 Year Celebration 2009
Post by: JohnOSullivan on December 02, 2011, 05:51:57 PM
Here are a few pics of my John West Dixielander and one of me launching  my standard version with a OS10FP glow,some have been posted already but this thread is more suitable.
It  now weighs 13.25 oz with a OS 10FP diesel,I did not use the 1/16in wash in on the LH inner as John has on the drawing,it has spruce front spars top and bottom,fuselage has a 3/32 ply doubler extending 1 1/2in past the pylon on the timer side to mount everthing on, also a spruce front spar on the tailplane other wise its the same as the John West version .The forward raked  pylon gives a little more room for a  bigger tank although my orange Dixie has a smaller tank and has no problems with the 15LA up front.
I only use 5% to 15% nitro fuel which helps the fuel economy,nitro adds power but is a poor fuel.
The 15LA pulls a 7x4 APC at over 19,900RPM(19,995 if the tacho was to be believed) on 5% nitro with a high compression turbo plug head and is 1/3oz(10g) lighter than the15FP,std venturi and needle valve,no mods apart from the head,even std they pull 18,000RPM with a LC3 or LC4 plug and 15% nitro
I rarely move the needle more than a click all day just start it up followed by a quick warm up until she peaks then guide her away gently without throwing.
Mike Beilbys FOX 15X pulled a 7x4 Master at 17,700 RPM on 40% nitro in a extended wing Climax- it used to flutter going straight up,Mike says he did very well at the British Nats  years ago almost taking out Open Power with a TeeDee 049 powered No Thrills.
The diesel 10LA was as fast as the glow 10LA but was poor starting with the fuel I had on the day so I put the glow head on to fly-do that with a PAW. It has since been replaced by a 10FP when it got a little sand in it and I hit it with the starter-exit 10LA .
With less warps the climb has less roll as the speed builds up and apart from reducing tail incidence with 1/32 packing on the front mount and shaving 1/32 off the rear mount it flew off the board.CG is 5/16in behind the trailing edge.
The launch shot was taken last year a few months before my heart attack,I have lost a few pounds since then,the paddock is one of our spares down the road from the 2009 field we flew the George Fuller 50th event in.

Phil


I remember when Mike Beilby and Margo and kids visited the UK and they came to stay with me in Galway in the west of Ireland. We attended the "Ballinasloe Horse Fair"  and had a great time.  I have discussed this with him in the past.
I believe he is still flying and would like to contact him if anyone has his email.