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Author Topic: IMS Mini Sticks  (Read 4440 times)
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crashcaley
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« Reply #50 on: March 21, 2012, 03:09:04 PM »

Hi Guys,  Have not given up on my Ministick build.  Just gotten to a lot of building in the radio control and outdoor rubber area. 
  One reason I am taking a break is I am having lots of trouble setting the dihedral and washin when the wing is covered.  I keep tearing the covering.  That makes me have to remove the covering and try again.  I am going through too much of that covering you guys were so nice to give me.  So I am going to try figuring out how to do the dihedral/washin a different way.  There has got to be a way for a clutsy person like me.  Caley
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What's stall speed?  Undecided
crashcaley
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« Reply #51 on: November 17, 2013, 08:44:36 PM »

I guessed this is the place for my ranting or whatever it may be called.  I happened to like a small indoor flyer by Wout Moerman, called a Living Room Flyer. 
  I have most of it done, but need help on choosing the prop hub wood.  What do you experts use for prop hubs on such tiny models. 

  The wingspan in only 5.5 inches when completed with dihedral.  What I liked about this model is I could use tissue paper.  Wout used Dollar store stuff.  I am using Esaki. 

  I used 1/32 square very hard wood for the flying surfaces.  Probably one reason I am already up to .4 grams, not including the wing pylon sticks and prop assembly, or the glue I will need to put on the tail feathers.  Oh, I still have to make the front prop hanger which should be real fun.

  Now I wonder just how you indoor gurus manage to get your models so light.  I bet you fabricate most of your models out of air.   Smiley 

  Last thing.  I may never get a chance to fly this model, but it sure has taught me patience.  Maybe someday I can manage to sneak into the military gym for a few minutes of trying to fly.  Caley
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Jimmy JFlyer
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« Reply #52 on: November 22, 2013, 10:52:14 PM »

Hey Caley,
I'm certainly no guru so I don't know the answer you are looking for but I am hoping one of the gurus chimes in for an answer. I am curious to see the Living Room Flyer. Now is it supposed to be actually that? I built Ikara's Butterfly kit and it does 4 to 5' diameter circles in the family room and is just a blast. I love being able to fly in the house. Being able to fly whenever is awesome. I am looking forward to seeing your end product.

Wonder if you should do your own thread on it maybe?
Any chance of some pics?

Looking forward to hearing & seeing more.
HAPPY THANKSGIVING!  Wink
Jimmy
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crashcaley
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« Reply #53 on: November 23, 2013, 10:25:59 AM »

Hi Jimmy,  As soon as I get the thing together, I'll post a picture.  The reason I put it here was because I simply didn't think it deserved a seperate thread, and that it is about the same size as a Mini Stick.
  I am just going to use a hard piece of balsa as the prop hub.  I think that is what most people use for their indoor super light weight flyers. 

  Happy Holidays to you and yours.  Caley
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Jimmy JFlyer
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« Reply #54 on: November 23, 2013, 10:56:49 AM »

Actually Caley, I just had a total brain fart and had forgotten that this is YOUR thread to begin with and why you started it. I was looking through the beginning again as I had always wondered about the IMS kit and then remembered this was yours. lol

I am curious to hear more though of the weight of the wood folks would use for the hub. What is better, light (obvious reasons) or the heavier for more stiffness? Does stiffness of the prop hub actually matter as much on a sub gram build?

I definitely want to try a scratch built mini but am nervous the trimming would be over my head. The Ikara Butterfly is superb but only because they have done all the guess work and give specific instructions on trim throughout the build. It is the perfect living room flyer. I can't imagine figuring that out on my own with my limited knowledge. Ah newbiness....  Wink
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crashcaley
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« Reply #55 on: November 23, 2013, 11:12:43 AM »

Jimmy,  Quite a while back I tried to get into indoor super light airplanes, but I just didn't have anyplace to fly, and decided to quit.  But I saw Wout's Mini Living Room Flyer and just liked it.  So it is nearly built with no place to fly, unless, I can sneak into the military gym for a few quick trials.

  As for wood selection, I get the feeling that the real good builders go through a lot of wood before the decide on each piece.  Somehow they do find very light wood that is also strong, and stiff enough for the structure.  I, for the moment am not trying to build super light, but just learn to build with the very thin pieces of wood.  This model I am working on uses 1/32 square wood for all the flying surfaces which is the thinnest wood I have ever worked with.  I am guessing I need to use 1/20 or 1/16 sq wood for the prop hub, otherwise a bump is going to break things. 
  Anyway Jimmy, all I can say is the experts learned a lot of what they know by trial and error in all aspects of building and flying their models.  We can only try the same approach.  Might as well get your feet wet and try.  Try building without getting too into wood choosing, just learning how to build these very delicate models.  Once you are successful, then start trying to get choosy with the wood.  The heavier models won't fly that well, but it gives you experience, telling you where you need to improve on the next build.
  Of course, the experts can give you a ton more help.  Maybe try the indoor general area for all your questions.  And don't get discouraged if you don't get an answer right away.  They may be on the road competing, or off on vacation or something.  Caley
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Jimmy JFlyer
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« Reply #56 on: November 23, 2013, 08:11:14 PM »

Hey Caley, I guess I'm not over overly concerned with wood yet so much as understanding how certain things affect flight like wash in/out. With my extremely limited free time, having the patience for R&D and trial and error I don't have. Kids & Church get all my free time.  Wink Though you are right. I would rather just try it, learn and get it on my own.

Building Ikara's Butterfly was quite the experience. I have never built with virtually weightless pieces of balsa and Japanese tissue. I did a thread documenting the entire build step by step with loads of pics if you want to take a peek. It's here in this section. I couldn't believe how light and fragile this stuff is. Slebetman did an awesome one too. A mini-stick that you can disassemble and stick in a small box. His flew in a small living room too.
This indoor stuff is definitely a different world.
Jimmy

ps... check out k777's Misstick thread. He has a close up of his prop hub set up. It looks pretty nice.
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crashcaley
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« Reply #57 on: November 23, 2013, 08:41:08 PM »

Jimmy, Great job on the Ikara Butterfly.  It looks real good.  Glad you got a lot of flying done.  Hopefully my little flyer will do a few circles, though I have to find a place large enough.  I don't have a room big enough in my little house, unless I build, say, a three inch wingspan model.
  Just wait until you are using wood that is thinner than 1/32, or at least from what I have seen of some of these pro built models, they are thinner than that.
  I have an idea how to build my prop sets now.  Making three with various pitches.  Have the blades cut, and the 1/16 hubs.  Not sure what diameter prop shafts I need.  I did three out of .013 wire.  Hopefully those will work.  Now for the bearing.  Caley
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Jimmy JFlyer
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« Reply #58 on: November 23, 2013, 10:35:07 PM »

Thanks for your kind words Caley.
Looking forward to your prop builds. I plan on doing No-Cals as my first all out Stick & Tissue scratch build and the props are what I am currently researching. Now those are a might bit heavier than props used for Mini-sticks but I still can use all the learning I can get and no way will I be able to resist scratching out a Mini-Stick too.
Would love to see how you do your prop hubs & bearing.
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hklam
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« Reply #59 on: November 29, 2013, 02:09:23 AM »

Jimmy, Great job on the Ikara Butterfly.  It looks real good.  Glad you got a lot of flying done.  Hopefully my little flyer will do a few circles, though I have to find a place large enough.  I don't have a room big enough in my little house, unless I build, say, a three inch wingspan model.
  Just wait until you are using wood that is thinner than 1/32, or at least from what I have seen of some of these pro built models, they are thinner than that.
  I have an idea how to build my prop sets now.  Making three with various pitches.  Have the blades cut, and the 1/16 hubs.  Not sure what diameter prop shafts I need.  I did three out of .013 wire.  Hopefully those will work.  Now for the bearing.  Caley

Hi Caley, most ministick models (7 inch span) should be able to fly in a small room once they are tweaked correctly (the turn radius). So you need not go to extremely small span models to do so. Too small a model will have its own set of issues to deal with, aside from having to be extremely light weight. Issues such as having to use a single rubber strand (rather than a thin loop), and its fidgety nature.

Having said that, do not worry about strength of the thin wood structures (for prop hubs 5lb density balsa should suffice) as the overall model is already ultralight and any unforeseen crashes or wall/ceiling/obstacle bumps should not cause any damage. For your 5.5 inch span model, I would suggest you start with a prop diameter of 3.5 inch and work your way up to about 5.0 inch. For ministicks, most flyers advocate 7" prop diameter for 7" wingspan. Its easier to trim a model with a smaller diameter prop as compared to a big prop.

Here's wishing you the best and enjoy yr indoor model building and flying.

hklam
« Last Edit: November 29, 2013, 03:12:30 AM by hklam » Logged
kiteshark
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« Reply #60 on: March 02, 2014, 09:20:25 PM »

My two cents on installing dihedral.

While I may be a newbie, I thought I'd chime in on this as its one of the few things I have really figured out.  Cutting from the top after the covering was applied has been nothing but a problem for me.  It starts a tear that will eventually rip across all your beautiful covering. 

As has been stated here (but I had to discover on my own before I found this forum!), once the flat wing is covered with the poly film, flip the wing over and using a brand new half of a carbon razor blade with a fresh point on it, cut a scarf joint most of the way through the spars.  Do not cut all the way through!  If you don't cut all the way through, the covering won't get nicked.  But do cut most all the way through.  It takes a few tries to finally know how far to cut.  You want to cut enough that there is still enough strength for you to handle the wing but deep enough that when you want to, just a little pressure will snap the spar in two.  That means almost all the way through but not quite.

Once the cut is in the spar, I pick up the wing, flex it slightly to open the new cut (flex the joint open but don't break it) and add some thinned glue, allowing it to soak in.  Once both spars are well soaked, that's when I lay the wing down right side up, weight it in place and finally break the joint loose by pulling up the wing tip to allow setting the dihedral.  If the cut is right, it shouldn't even feel like you're breaking anything.  Prop the correct dihedral and allow to dry.  Being a nervous Nellie, at this point I always remove the wing, add another microdrop of glue to the scarf joint and return to jigged position for a second drying.

I'm not much of an indoor flier, but this is the one thing that I think I've finally figured out.  And it used to be the one thing that gave me more grief than anything else in constructing a model.

Now if only I could figure out how to ...

Dave
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crashcaley
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« Reply #61 on: March 02, 2014, 09:58:55 PM »

Wow!  This thread is still alive.  Thanks Dave, on that description of how to do.  I think I have it in mind now, for when I do decide to build another tiny light weight model.  Caley
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