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Author Topic: Comet Great Lakes Trainer  (Read 5110 times)
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TJH
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« on: March 05, 2012, 10:26:07 AM »

I just started one of these as a new project. I had plans however I could not get the PDF sizing correct so I purchased a
Scale Flight Model Co. / Comet No. 1160 Great Lakes Trainer from Penn Valley Hobby Center. The contents were nice however I am modifying some areas especially the wings with something other than 1/16" square stock. I have also added some extra wood to the fuselage as well. I want it to be a flyer however I am adding a little strength as well.

Cheers, Tim
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« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2012, 10:47:29 AM »

Nice.  Looks like you're raising the thrustline, so it will look more like this one...
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« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2012, 10:59:29 AM »

You are correct. There are a few at a local museum (flying) and this one I have modified to look like the Ranger engines used back in the 1930's.
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« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2012, 03:44:28 PM »

Interesting project, keep us posted.  Will you double cover the wings, or stick with the single covering as shown on the plan?  I have the Golden Age Reproduction version of the Comet kit, languishing on the shelf...
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TJH
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« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2012, 08:30:20 PM »

I will be fully covering the wings and stab on this as I want some aesthetic quality to this build. It has been quite a while since I covered an under-cambered wing. My schedule is getting a little full so progress will be slow on this one.
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Clay
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« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2012, 09:37:22 PM »

The plane pictured in yellow has the Ranger, and many Great Lakes over the years have either been modified to accept the ranger, or built from scratch and used the Ranger.  To my knowledge though The 'Lakes never came from the factory with that powerplant, but rather Cirrus or Menasco products when inline powerplants were spec'd.

I built the Comet plane a few years back and it flew great off the board, with mods not unlike yours.  My only wish in hindsight was that I had moved the peg up one bay.  Mine was done up like ORA's N304Y, which was a factory demonstrator for Great Lakes and featured in some of their ads as well.

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« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2012, 09:42:52 PM »

Logo attached for your use if needed.

http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/Halpin/2839L.jpg

Comet Great Lakes Trainer
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« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2012, 10:08:04 PM »

Clay,
That is some nice work! Did you modify the wing ribs to remove the under-camber? Also, what was your method, if I may ask, to attach your wings? They look to be aligned pretty nice for this type of kit. I am going to use the colors supplied with the kit, and use a local full size reference, which later I will build one for the owner after my learning curve with this one.
Many thanks for sharing your photos!

Cheers, Tim
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Clay
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« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2012, 10:28:04 PM »

I did flatten the airfoil along the bottom.  Wing attach according to plan I think...  butt jointed lower wings, although i think I extended the spars just slightly so that they could rest on and glue to the longerons.  "N" struts I think I used tissue tubes in the wing at each attach point to run the strut up into and give it some "meat" to hold it.
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Visit Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome.
www.oldrhinebeck.org

Attend our annual Cole & Rita Palen Annual Memorial Free Flight Meet.
WW1 Mass Launch, Boxy Bipe Mass Launch, Unlimited Mass Launch and more...
No AMA...No FAC...just fun!!!
See website for event details as they come available.
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« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2012, 11:40:00 PM »

Clay, you're the "go-to-guy" for biplane stuff!  Great model, and thanks for the logo images.

IIRC, the yellow GL that I posted above is actually a homebuilt version with a Ranger.  I took the pic at the Bartlesville Biplane Expo.  I used to see that plane in the Bay Area when I lived near San Francisco; it was based at Schellville Aerodrome...

I have some time in a "late model" (now only 35 years old) 180 hp GL, and I am happy to see the brand will be returned to production by the WACO folks...

Here's a cool "alternate" engine installation  (LOM)

Also, there is a good Flickr "pool" for Great Lakes biplanes here:

http://www.flickr.com/groups/[email protected]/pool/with/5336731544/
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« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2012, 12:36:56 PM »

Nice link!
One question; I am not aware of "tissue tubes"; what are these?

Also, as I mentioned earlier I will be making a few of these. there are 2 at the Golden Age Air Museum in PA, www.goldenageair.org
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Clay
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« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2012, 08:42:26 PM »

Tissue Tubes

Just to try it for the first time take a piece of tissue a half inch wide or so by an inch or so long.  Use a mandrel of some small diameter.  I use cheap plastic q-tips with the tips cut off.  Any small diameter is fine.  All depends on what you are intending them for.  If needed coat it with crayon or paraffin as a release.  I use cut down cellulose or PVC based glue, coat the tissue and roll it up on the mandrel.  Idea is to get two or three layers in the wrap.  Pull it off mandrel then or let it dry and then get it off.  There you have it.  Section off whatever length you need for the job at hand.  Great for making strut connections and the like....exhaust stacks, etc.  stuff like that.
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Visit Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome.
www.oldrhinebeck.org

Attend our annual Cole & Rita Palen Annual Memorial Free Flight Meet.
WW1 Mass Launch, Boxy Bipe Mass Launch, Unlimited Mass Launch and more...
No AMA...No FAC...just fun!!!
See website for event details as they come available.
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« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2012, 10:30:27 PM »

Perhaps you could use Titebond or something to make the tubes, and secure the struts in the tubes with Ambroid. Then maybe you could soften with acetone to adjust the position of the strut? Or perhaps use glue stick and alcohol with Ambroid tissue tubes?

I used to make tissue tubes. I'd do them on small nails. If using Ambroid, I'd just dampen the end of the paper so it woudn't stick to the nail. Lots of lightweight indoor models use tissue tubes to attach the wing to the motor stick in an adjustable manner, but that's too weak for outdoors. Perhaps a tight fitting one would be ok for an adjustable tail. Hmmmm...
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TJH
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« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2012, 08:13:25 AM »

Thank you for your suggestions, I will have to try this! My weakness with biplanes has been with wing alignment and this has always been a PITA for me. The only kit that I have built so far that was somewhat easy was the Dumas Tiger Moth, but I should have taken more time to do that one correctly (lessons learned!). The Easy Built Waco wasn't too bad as this was a cabin model. My E.B. Fokker DVII was a challenge as I used thin wire on the N-struts. I really like this idea with the tubes and elongating the struts. I may even cut down some coffee stirrers to strengthen it a bit.
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Mark Braunlich
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« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2012, 09:11:01 AM »

The bird shown in reply #1 is owned by Terry and Doug Gardner.  Here's another view but here the wings appear silver.  Would make a nice model.

Mark

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« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2012, 05:11:58 PM »

I have the 24" Sterling Krier "Great Lakes" languishing on the shelf for at least 25 years.  When I saw the pics posted here, I was beginnig to doubt the accuracy of the kit.  A bit of searching did confirm the radial version.  I must say that the radial version gives me more of a tingle, tho the skinny nose ones are also sharp.
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« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2012, 01:00:50 PM »

I'm glad that I posted this as this group has given me great advice ans reference photos! Clay, I really like your suggestion on the tissue tubes. I decided to use that concept with coffee stirrers and it seems OK so far. I also modified the "N" struts with a little stiff wire. I always like strong models and don't mind sacrificing a little extra weight for strength.

Thanks again guys!
Tim
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« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2012, 01:52:20 PM »

Here's another shot of N847K (the pretty yellow one).  It indeed is a replica; one can read the details on the FAA N-number database...

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c272/mnankivil/xMG_5433.jpg

The wings are the same color as the fuselage trim color.  off-white/cream.
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« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2012, 06:09:55 PM »

Tim,

I like how you've done the rib to strut joiners...

Jon
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« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2012, 08:43:27 PM »

Man if that is a model -you are to good at this for me to ever catch up to you man !!!!!!!
great looking plane !!!!!!
George
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TJH
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« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2012, 10:25:10 PM »

Hi George,
I wish that was my model but I believe you are referring to the reference photo that was attached.

Tim
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TJH
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« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2012, 08:18:42 PM »

I just returned from a business trip and finished the upper wing that I started last week. I have decided to go with removing the undercamber.
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« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2012, 10:47:31 PM »

All of the bones completed and ready to cover. I was originally going to use the tissue supplied however I may change to another scheme. The landing gear will be added after the lower wings are installed so I can get the correct dihedral.

Cheers, Tim
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« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2012, 10:48:21 PM »

Upper wing covered and completed.
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« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2012, 07:48:34 AM »

All starbursts now completed.
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