Logo
Builders' Plan Gallery  |  Hip Pocket Web Site  |  Contact Forum Admin  |  Contact Global Moderator
November 12, 2019, 06:54:56 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with email, password and session length
 
Home Help Search Login Register
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6]   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Swing Control  (Read 9653 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
sx976
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 4
Offline Offline

Germany Germany

Posts: 70



Ignore
« Reply #125 on: September 04, 2019, 08:58:47 AM »

To my surprise, another couple of long forgotten models sufaced in the cellar. Both circa 2005, I think, still in their original boxes and unflown

The LeO 451 scale French bomber was from 'Air Ace'. It had two geared motors. I pulled the pinions off the motors and let the props freewheel on the gearbox shafts. I converted it to Whip Control and flew it for the first time today in a sports hall. It flew well!! The freewheeling props made a sort of growling noise, which was super.

I also flew the tiny Guillows Rockstar and Zyo-6 in the hall. They flew well, much better than when I tried to fly them outside.

I also discovered a Silverlit Boeing 737. I removed the motors and fan blades and will finish the conversion to Whip Control when I have a few minutes. It's quite a big, chunky model which should fly well.

The Revell Aqua Color paints that I ordered finally arrived. I am going to paint the Guillows Sky Raider foam glider with them to look like a late WWII German paper project jet.

Chris P
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Swing Control
Re: Swing Control
Re: Swing Control
Re: Swing Control
Logged
sx976
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 4
Offline Offline

Germany Germany

Posts: 70



Ignore
« Reply #126 on: September 07, 2019, 02:27:49 PM »

Here are photos of the Guillows Sky Raider turned into a ficticious German WWII jet bomber. I could have spent a lot more time on detailing, but there are other projects in the queue.

Chris P
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Swing Control
Re: Swing Control
Logged
sx976
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 4
Offline Offline

Germany Germany

Posts: 70



Ignore
« Reply #127 on: September 08, 2019, 04:03:08 AM »

Here's the conversion of the Silverlit Boeing 737. It only took about 20 minutes. The former battery compartment will be perfect for ballasting the model.

Span 510mm, Weight 97g without any ballast.

I'm hoping to fly the FGJ (Fictitious German Jet) and the 737 indoors in our sports hall on Wednesday.

I think that if anyone wanted to try out Whip Control for themselves, a foam model of around 350 - 500mm span would be a low effort way to start and gain some experience.

Chris P
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Swing Control
Re: Swing Control
Re: Swing Control
« Last Edit: September 08, 2019, 04:15:08 AM by sx976 » Logged
sx976
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 4
Offline Offline

Germany Germany

Posts: 70



Ignore
« Reply #128 on: September 10, 2019, 07:50:55 AM »

I was able to get back to working on my Brewster Bermuda - my first model with elevator control. Tail surfaces done and panel lines inked in.

The next step is to fit the bellcrank etc and set up a fishing pole for elevator control.

Chris P
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Swing Control
Logged
sx976
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 4
Offline Offline

Germany Germany

Posts: 70



Ignore
« Reply #129 on: September 11, 2019, 06:37:56 AM »

Flew the Boeing and the Fake German Jet in our hall this morning. The Boeing 737 flies perfectly. The FGJ flies strongly right wing low. Curious, as it flew well be before I painted it. I think the reason could be that I flew it before outdoors on longer lines.
I also took my unballasted X-18. This really is a fabulous model. Ballasted for outdoors, unballasted for indoors. If you're thinking of trying this out, this model is perfect!! But please don't forget to reinforce the nose (see above).

Chris P
Logged
OZPAF
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 180
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 5,178



Ignore
« Reply #130 on: September 12, 2019, 07:26:50 AM »

You're doing well Chris. How do you intend to handle the 2 lines at the rod?

John
Logged
sx976
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 4
Offline Offline

Germany Germany

Posts: 70



Ignore
« Reply #131 on: September 14, 2019, 07:16:06 AM »

Thank you for the encouragement John!!

I am going to use my first telescopic rod which has just one ring at the tip. I have a 1/2A plastic control line handle from the 'Cox era'. Both lines (thread) from the handle up through the single ring to the plane. I intend to do a two ring tip guide just forward of the wing LE like in the photo. Lightweight Laystrate lines to a bellcrank located well forward on the wing.

Might find some time tomorrow to start the additions to the model.

'Historic data' below.

Obviously a fixed line length, not extendable!

Chris P 
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Swing Control
Re: Swing Control
Re: Swing Control
Re: Swing Control
Re: Swing Control
Logged
sx976
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 4
Offline Offline

Germany Germany

Posts: 70



Ignore
« Reply #132 on: September 15, 2019, 11:36:33 AM »

Here's one just to keep the motivation going after a pleasant Sunday afternoon's modelling :

- Bellcrank Mount made and installed

- Bellcrank and Tip Guide designed and made. I had some Paxolin and Aluminium Bellcranks from the 60's, but they weren't the right size.

- Tip Guide installed.

Now on to : Leadouts, Push Rod and Elevator Horn.

Chris P
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Swing Control
Logged
LASTWOODSMAN
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 26
Offline Offline

Canada Canada

Posts: 1,035


REAL PLANES HAD ROUND ENGINES AND TWO WINGS



Ignore
« Reply #133 on: September 15, 2019, 11:52:22 AM »

Hi sx976,   Thanks for the pics.  I especially like your flying pic #3 in Reply #131 above  Cool   Shocked   .   Keep 'em flyin' !!

LASTWOODSMAN
Richard
Logged

OH, I HAVE SLIPPED THE SURLY BONDS OF EARTH ... UP, UP THE LONG DELIRIOUS BURNING BLUE ... SUNWARD I'VE CLIMBED AND JOINED THE TUMBLING MIRTH OF SUN-SPLIT CLOUDS ...
sx976
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 4
Offline Offline

Germany Germany

Posts: 70



Ignore
« Reply #134 on: September 15, 2019, 01:30:57 PM »

Thanks Richard!

I pulled these 'historic photos' off   http://www.americanjuniorclassics.com/WhipPower/whipower.htm

To be clear, they're not me!! I've scoured the internet to try and get some hints on how to do Whip Control. I'm trying to log my experiences here, good and bad, as there's not much hard data out there. Also we now have the advantage of things like carbon fibre poles, small low cost fishing reels and some excellent foam models.

Chris P 
Logged
OZPAF
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 180
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 5,178



Ignore
« Reply #135 on: September 15, 2019, 06:52:35 PM »

You are well on the way there Chris! I remember seeing those sites some time back and what always struck me as a little strange was that they held the handle in their left hands and the rod or whip in the other. I've always felt that I would prefer to do it the other way around - ie handle in the right hand for better control.

It looks like you were an active control line flyer at one point. I flew sports models for a couple of years.

happy flying.

John
Logged
sx976
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 4
Offline Offline

Germany Germany

Posts: 70



Ignore
« Reply #136 on: September 17, 2019, 03:47:54 AM »

I have been wondering too about which hand to use to hold what. I guess it will come naturally without thinking when I try it out. My son is left handed, so I'm interested to see what he does!

I have built 4 electric CL models over the past few years and still have 4 or 5 glow powered models. I have also been building a Ron Moulton Voetsak powered by an O&R 60 petrol engine on and off for the last year, but have found it hard to keep motivated. Not like me at all.

I belong to a very good club with a fantastic flying field and have flown CL there, but I feel a bit awkward basically blocking the field for myself when people want to fly RC. Especially with the time it takes to reel out and reel in the lines etc.

This was one reason I decided to try whip control. I have flown a lot in the local park and had no complaints. I have also flown on the large grass car park area at our club when people have been flying RC on the field. Also no issues. And recently I have been flying the smaller models in our indoor flying sports hall.

Finally, I love scale models and whip control gives me an easy way to do an Avro Lincoln and Shackleton, which I have wanted to do for years. That's why I started with the easy models to gain experience and find out what works before tackling ancient 4-engined bombers!! One of the best learnings in this respect was to definitely fit freewheeling props. The French LeO 451 makes a fabulous growling sound when flying.

As a side note : the RAAF had the fabulous long nose Lincoln MR Mk 31 in shiny natural metal. Unfortunately I never got to see one.

Chris P
Logged
sx976
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 4
Offline Offline

Germany Germany

Posts: 70



Ignore
« Reply #137 on: September 17, 2019, 11:47:47 AM »

Well the Bermuda's just about done and I'm happy with the result. As everything came out of the scrap box, it cost me absolutely nothing!!

All that is left to do now, is to ballast the nose to get the CG in the right place. I'm using car wheel balancing weights that I got from Amazon. They are good value and perfect for the job. I chose the iron ones rather than the lead ones as they are thinner (and cheaper).
  
I'll do the usual drawing exercise to find the Mean Aerodynamic Chord and set the CG at 15% to start with. The model weighs 98g at the moment, I'll publish the final weight when I get it done.

I took extra care to make the leadouts exactly the same length. I will use a single line pole with the hook through both leadouts to immobilise the elevator and do the basic flight trimming before I move on to two lines with a control handle.

After that it's either move on to something aerobatic with elevator control, or kick off my scale Avro Lincoln project. Off to Crete soon for a couple of weeks R&R. Good Greek wine, sunshine and relaxation should help with the decision making process.

Chris P
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Swing Control
Re: Swing Control
Logged
OZPAF
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 180
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 5,178



Ignore
« Reply #138 on: September 18, 2019, 05:10:12 AM »

Looks neat and tidy Chris. It should go well. Don't overdo the relaxing! Smiley

Have fun.

John
Logged
sx976
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 4
Offline Offline

Germany Germany

Posts: 70



Ignore
« Reply #139 on: September 18, 2019, 06:39:31 AM »

Last night I started putting on lead weights to get the CG to 15% MAC. After 50g I gave up with the CG at more like 20%.

This morning I took the Bermuda with me to the sports hall. Nobody else there, just me! Cool.

The first flight showed the model to be very nose heavy and right wing low. I removed the 5g weight on the RH wing tip, which made next to no difference. I then started to remove the nose weights piece by piece and reached the point where from the original 50g, only 20g was left. Now the model was flying nicely and climbing gently when whipping harder. Interestingly it was now no longer flying right wing low.

The tyre weights have an adhesive rubber backing. I coat the surface of the model under the weights with epoxy. The advantage of leaving on the rubber backing is that it can be peeled off from the model if you remove a weight.

When I got home I checked where the new CG was located. I could hardly believe that it was at 64% MAC!! I had moved the CG back a whopping 39mm. I have no idea why it wants to fly with such a rearward CG, but if that what it takes, so be it.

I then started playing with the leadout exit holes on the tip guide figuring that if the CG had moved rearwards then the leadouts should exit more rearwards. All was going well until I moved the leadouts to the rearmost holes. When whipping hard the model dived quite violently and whacked into the ground. Fortunately no damage at all.

I finished up with the arrangement shown in the photo. It means that the leadout run to the tip guide is now quite straight rather than angled forward. The lesson learned here is that it is well worth the extra 2 minutes drilling a row of holes in the tip guide. And also, of course, it is well worth trimming the model first on a single line.

Hoping to get some flights with 2 lines and a handle before the holiday. We'll see.

Chris P

Model now weighs 114g. Span 464mm.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Swing Control
Re: Swing Control
Re: Swing Control
« Last Edit: September 18, 2019, 07:31:19 AM by sx976 » Logged
sx976
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 4
Offline Offline

Germany Germany

Posts: 70



Ignore
« Reply #140 on: September 19, 2019, 07:13:34 AM »

On this YouTube Video :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o36mzKH4WVs

there is the only example of a 'bespoke' pole for whip control models with elevator control that I have ever come across. Appears to be single handed operation too!!

Chris P
Logged
sx976
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 4
Offline Offline

Germany Germany

Posts: 70



Ignore
« Reply #141 on: September 19, 2019, 04:48:41 PM »

Here's a screenshot of it. Not 100% sure yet how it works. My assumption at the moment is that only the down line moves and is attached to the hole in the arm on the left. The metal fitting on the right is the up and down stop. The notch next to it is for the forefinger. The up line is stationary and is fixed to the ring that is visible on the left side of the handle.

Any better ideas??

Chris P
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Swing Control
« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 05:28:28 PM by sx976 » Logged
sx976
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 4
Offline Offline

Germany Germany

Posts: 70



Ignore
« Reply #142 on: September 20, 2019, 01:23:14 AM »

At the very least I got my explanation back to front. The finger notch (if that's what it is) must be on the up line. The down line ought to be fixed so that the centrifugal force provides the opposite force to the finger.

The video seems to show the top part of the lever angled fully forward ('up' if the finger notch is underneath?) and I can't see the pilot doing anything with the lever. Whether the model is climbing and diving due to elevator control or just whipping, no idea.

And I just can't understand how the pole can be held such that the finger is able to operate the lever.

This one's a mystery to me!!

Chris P
Logged
PB_guy
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 13
Offline Offline

Canada Canada

Posts: 512


Just a kid at heart.



Ignore
« Reply #143 on: September 20, 2019, 02:48:59 AM »

It seems to me that if you had a spring or an elastic attached to hold tension, you would just adjust your finger pressure for up/down control.
ian
Logged
billdennis747
Titanium Member
*******

Kudos: 52
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 3,703



Ignore
« Reply #144 on: September 20, 2019, 03:22:17 AM »

As a side note : the RAAF had the fabulous long nose Lincoln MR Mk 31 in shiny natural metal. Unfortunately I never got to see one.
This one? At 40 seconds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV_HcHIP5gE
Logged
sx976
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 4
Offline Offline

Germany Germany

Posts: 70



Ignore
« Reply #145 on: September 22, 2019, 04:31:29 AM »

It seems to me that if you had a spring or an elastic attached to hold tension, you would just adjust your finger pressure for up/down control.
ian

When I tried out the idea with a couple of rulers, I couldn't find a way to hold the pole and operate the lever at the same time.

I think the deisgn harks back to the earliest Jim Walker design (attachment) which is shown as two handed. I think my assumption that the design was single handed, based solely on the finger notch (?) in the lever, was incorrect.

Chris P
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Swing Control
Logged
sx976
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 4
Offline Offline

Germany Germany

Posts: 70



Ignore
« Reply #146 on: September 22, 2019, 04:39:33 AM »

As a side note : the RAAF had the fabulous long nose Lincoln MR Mk 31 in shiny natural metal. Unfortunately I never got to see one.
This one? At 40 seconds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV_HcHIP5gE
No that's a Lincoln Mk 30. The Mk 31 had a 6ft 6ins 'plug' added in front of the cockpit. Evidently it was extremely hard to land at night due to the obscuration caused by the longer nose.

Chris P  
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Swing Control
Re: Swing Control
Logged
sx976
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 4
Offline Offline

Germany Germany

Posts: 70



Ignore
« Reply #147 on: September 22, 2019, 02:18:29 PM »

Had a wonderful Sunday afternoon at the club field. My wife had prepared a picnic and I took most of the Whip Control fleet. Lovely weather too.

I flew the 'Fake German Jet' and it flew much better on long lines than in the hall. Not so right wing low either, but I will try it again with 10g on the port wing.

The ballasted models fly better outdoors than in the hall, and vice versa. As flying in the hall will be more of a temporary thing for me, I think I will start ballasting some of the unballasted models. 20g, 30g or so to start.

The 'main event' was the first flight of the Bermuda with elevator control. Again I was shown that this business is not as easy as it looks. The model was incredibly sensitive on the handle. The throws were not excessive either - maybe +/- 30 degrees. In fact, the model was unflyable. I have a feeling it is more to do with the centre of gravity than the elevator throws. The next time I will start putting nose weight back on.

I broke the solid tip section of the long carbon rod. I was pulling the model on the ground at right angles to the rod and it snapped. My fault I guess.

I did some flying with the green mini spinning reel. Brilliant!! If you reel in the line while letting the model drag on the ground, there are are no problems with the line coming off the reel and jamming.

KBO as Winston Churchill used to write on his letters!!

Chris P      
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6]   Go Up
Print
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!