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Author Topic: CO2 motors surgery  (Read 1799 times)
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Pete Fardell
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« on: June 05, 2012, 05:45:52 AM »

Here are my faulty CO2 motors. I'm  posting this pic here so that Dan can maybe advise me on how to get them going (couldn't see how to add it to a PM) but anyone else feel free to chip in!
I think there is a Telco, Gasparin GM63, Modela and I'm not sure about the yellow propped one. Thought it was another Telco, but see that the cylinder is different. Brown?
This and the Telco's gas pipe are loose (or detached completely) at the cylinder head, the big Modela just kicks like a mule and stops, and the Gasparin leaks at the tank.
I'm not much of an engineer and my soldering skills leave a lot to be desired, but I'd love to get at least one of them running again.
Thanks in advance!
Pete
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DaddyO
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« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2012, 06:34:25 AM »

Hi Pete - I usually cure minor gas leaks by using metal epoxy (supersteel), but you can solder them if you are careful. I've repaied Telco heads by removing the head, cleaning off the old crap, redrilling the hole (or sometimes just reaming it out with a burr) then either soldering/epoxying the tube back in place.

Have a go - they don't run at the moment so not much to lose.

The Modella is quite a beast compared to the lovely Gasparin and mine certainly chucked out the power. It sounds like yours is locking - I'd back the compression off and try it again.

Cheers
Paul
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danmellor
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« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2012, 06:45:17 AM »

Yep, that sounds like good advice! Some of the Gasparins used glue joints instead of solder. I would take the joint apart, remove all old glue/solder, clean thoroughly and then re-glue. Or re-solder, if the original joint was soldered. Both the other motors are Telcos. They varied in detail throughout production, but always had the same black plastic crankcase. Browns of whatever size always has a cast crankcase.

Good luck with them!

Dan.
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Hepcat
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« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2012, 11:56:23 AM »

Peter
I won the object below at the Coupe event UmptyUmp years ago.  I am told it is a CO2 motor but I don't understand about such things and it has never been out of the box.  I have intended giving it away for some years so if it is of any use to you just say and it is yours. If Peter does not want it and anyone else knows of a good home for a freebe please let me know.
John 
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danmellor
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« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2012, 12:07:21 PM »

If Pete doesn't want it, I'm happy to take it off your hands! I know they have been doomed by the lightweight electric stuff but I still love them...

Dan.
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2012, 12:25:07 PM »

  Smiley That's really useful! I'm not in a big  hurry to get these going as I do have one Telco which runs okay,  but shall try fixing the others using glue or solder as advised.
John- that's really generous, but please give your motor to Dan, who will surely use it.
Thanks for all the above!
Pete
« Last Edit: June 05, 2012, 12:39:25 PM by Pete Fardell » Logged
Pete Fardell
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« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2012, 12:44:10 PM »

Having checked my messages I don't think I'll be repairing them after all. Dan has made me a VERY generous offer of working replacements and so will be receiving all the broken motors pictured (apparently gladly!). Thanks Dan, and also the rest of you again for the repair advice which will no doubt still be useful to me in the future.
Pete
« Last Edit: June 05, 2012, 01:01:26 PM by Pete Fardell » Logged
BlueBaron
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« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2012, 02:29:49 PM »

Dan, Could Hepcat's Russian CO2 Motor be used in the SE5A as well? Thanks, Mike
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danmellor
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« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2012, 02:55:00 PM »

Hi Mike,

No, the Russian is way too big and monstrous for the SE5a. If I do indeed get my grubby little hands on it, it's probably destined for a scale-up of Bill Hannan's Soda Cracker. That would not require much re-bending of the pipework and the thicker stuff of the Russian motor, GM300s and the like is a sod to bend without damage...

Cheers,

Dan.

PS. The SE5a has a Brown B100. A lovely little motor that should be plenty of power and fits in the cowling with no bother...
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g_kandylakis
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« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2012, 02:56:53 PM »

In Dan's SE5 ?

No way !

The B-100 has 100mm3 displacement

The Gasparin GM 120 120mm3 (naturally...)
The GM63 63mm3 (ditto... which I still think would be OK...)

The Russian has 270mm3. It is a copy of the Czech Modela CO2 engine. It does not run as well and as smooth as the Modela.

It gives plenty of raw power for a rather limited duration, compared to the Modela.

It would be suited for models in the 100 gr range. Dan's is about half of that...

George

Dan beat me to it, but here is my answer as well...
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danmellor
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« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2012, 03:14:24 PM »

Yep! George is 100% right on that. The Russian motor could probably be shoehorned into the Aerographics 27" SE5a, but certainly not the one I'm building. I don't have any experience of the Russian motor, so I'm looking forward to seeing one, if I do indeed get my hands on it.

Gotta love CO2, even with all it's faults and foibles...

Dan.
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Hepcat
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« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2012, 03:47:39 PM »

Dan
I live in Hazel Grove at the south end of Stockport.  My email is on the Profile page here on HPA.  My legs are such that I can’t get around the competition fields any more but I have clubmates that do.  Where are you located, can we fix a hand to hand to hand transfer or are we limited to something mundane like the Royal Mail?
John
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danmellor
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« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2012, 04:03:48 PM »

Hi! I'm in Chesterfield, so it looks like Royal Mail. I'll be happy to pay postage costs, obviously. If you are going to the August Nats at sunny Barkston, I'll be in the hangar there...

If not, my address is:

26, Prospect Terrace,
Chesterfield,
Derbyshire,
S40 4HD.

Cheers,

Dan.
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BlueBaron
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« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2012, 04:37:43 PM »

Thanks for the responses.  Smiley
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Hepcat
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« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2012, 07:53:11 AM »

Dan
The CO2 motor is on its way (at last), let me know if it does not arrive within the next days.
John
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danmellor
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« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2012, 08:59:02 AM »

Hi John,

I just PM'd you!

Cheers,

Dan.
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danmellor
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« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2012, 10:45:52 AM »

Hi John,

Don't know if you got my message yesterday. The Russian motor was waiting for me when I got home, which was a lovely surprise! Gave it a dose of oil and ran it more or less straight away. Thanks!! Let me know if there are any plans etc. you are after, I have an obscenely large collection and will be happy to help if I can. I'll reimburse postage, just let me know...

Thanks again,

Dan.

P.S Still planning on an enlarged Bill Hannan Soda Cracker for this. I have a standard size with a Brown MJ70 and it's an awesome flyer...
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« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2012, 04:13:35 PM »

I have never seen a gasperin up close but have been utilizing epoxy for my compressed air motors and it works nicely on their aluminum parts.
paul helman,Evanston
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danmellor
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« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2012, 04:29:10 PM »

I have one or two compressed air motors, bought on a whim from EBay. They are the late '80s-early '90s moulded plastic jobs with the rubber diaphragm in the head. I haven't got round to using them yet...

Cheers,

Dan.
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2012, 10:28:27 AM »

Dan, you were right. I've changed the throttle setting on the Gasparin and it's stopped throwing the prop on starting. Thanks.  The gas bottle/adaptor leak problem is proving harder to solve. I think I may have just got a bottle with an uneven end, as other washers or o rings I've tried so far all still seem to leak. I'm just using my Telco charger and dwindling supply of Sparklet bulbs in the meantime.
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danmellor
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« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2012, 12:26:57 PM »

A last resort is a couple of turns of plumbers PTFE tape around the threads. I've seen it mentioned but never tried it in anger.

Glad the Gasparin is now behaving itself...

Cheers,

Dan.
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2012, 03:57:31 PM »

I've got some PTFE tape somewhere. I'll give it a go.
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GM
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« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2012, 04:07:07 PM »

The soda stream gas bottles always leaked if the face of the screw-in section was damaged. I flattened them off gently with some wet and dry glued to a piece of plate glass so that the contact with the o ring in the adaptor was perfect.

Put the whole lot in a bucket of cold water if you cannot determine precisely where the leak is coming from.

Hope this helps.



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danmellor
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« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2012, 04:44:42 PM »

If you do that, make damn sure to remove all traces of metal dust before it does nice things to the insides of your motors!

Dan
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2012, 04:22:16 PM »

The PTFE tape helped a bit, but didn't stop the leak. Looking at the top of the gas bottle closely I think the problem may be that a dent to the side of the screw section has left the rim narrower at one point (see pic) so the seal will possibly never be good even if I did manage get the rim flatter and smoother. Trouble is, the simplest way to get a new bottle is by emptying and  exchanging this one, but I'd hate to waste all that gas!
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