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Author Topic: HTL Motor Mounting  (Read 1435 times)
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tonyshepherd
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« on: August 08, 2012, 07:19:36 AM »

I'm probably going to build a High Thrust Line model for my next E36 project and will almost certainly go for a Taibi Starduster reduced to 36" span (especially as I now have the scaled down plan!).

Some of you have experience in electrifying the design, so the question is, did you mount the motor on the firewall as it is drawn or extend the motor pod to get the prop into the position where it would be if there was an i/c engine providing the grunt?  With the locked down surface pylon models that I've built to date, the aim has been to get the prop as close as poss to the wing LE (though my electric jobs have them quite a bit forward of this to allow for CofG and prop fold but don’t exhibit any problems) but with HTL and i/c the best you can do is to have the firewall at the wing LE and all of the engine stuck out in front of it.  With an E36 size electric motor mounted on the firewall, the prop will be much closer to the wing so is this a good thing?

Cheers - Tony
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Olbill
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« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2012, 04:00:23 PM »

Tony
I'm considering building a reduced size Bounty Hunter for E36. I'll be interested in following your experiences.
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danberry
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« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2012, 10:31:08 AM »

You're probably gonna need to shift the motor forward. As well as the battery.
Are you doing the Starduster for sentimental reasons?
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tonyshepherd
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« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2012, 12:40:54 PM »

Hi Dan,
Sorry for the later reply but I've been off forum for a while.

Only reason that I went for the Starduster is that i found a free copy of the plan on line and it looked simple enough to justify the build time for a scaled down version for E36. When scaled to give a 36" projected span it has a wing area of just over 200 squins which I reckon is good for E36 - my electric Top Banana certainly goes well and that's got a 200 squins wing.

One of our guys over here in UK flies a few HTL models in Open Electric (like your Electric A/B) and they go well so I thought I'd give it a whirl.  I might change the structure a bit and make the wing and tail with less straight ribs but add some diagonals.

Cheers - Tony
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Pit
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« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2012, 04:18:38 PM »

I've been wondering about the half "A" Viking that was in the Goldberg line-up.  Also HTL.  Would it make a decent E36 if reduced to the required 36" span (orig. is 48").

It's one of my fav designs.  Don't really care if it would be competitive (no FF in my area).
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PeeTee
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« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2012, 05:30:07 PM »

Quote
One of our guys over here in UK flies a few HTL models in Open Electric (like your Electric A/B) and they go well so I thought I'd give it a whirl.

From what I've seen it's only the Ramrod that goes well! Anyway, you've changed your tune after mocking my Bounty Hunter and Amazoom - although I accept that the BH was like the apocryphal little girl, when it was good it was very very good, when it was bad it was awful. Mark my words, the Top Banana will have a sulk if you build something else Wink

Pierre
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tonyshepherd
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« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2012, 06:12:06 PM »

The Hustler also goes exceptionally well - I was shocked when I saw it's rate of climb last year at Middle Wallop and that's what got me to change from the Graupner 7.5x4 to the APC 8x4.
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danberry
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« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2012, 07:59:00 PM »

I've been wondering about the half "A" Viking that was in the Goldberg line-up.  Also HTL.  Would it make a decent E36 if reduced to the required 36" span (orig. is 48").

It's one of my fav designs.  Don't really care if it would be competitive (no FF in my area).

No. A thousand times, no.
The Viking is singularly responsible for turning more people away from Free Flight than anything in history.

The 'Duster will work but it isn't a great gliding plane. The Hustler would do better.
Change the wing structure under any circumstance. Way less straight and some diagonals.
Weight is important. As in---keep the weight away.
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flydean1
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« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2012, 08:32:31 PM »


Weight is important. As in---keep the weight away.

To quote the late Terry Rimert:

Three rules for Free Flight

1.  Build it light.
2.  Don't build it heavy.
3.  It shouldn't weigh much.
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tonyshepherd
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« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2012, 07:23:25 AM »

I have the plan for the full size Hustler so it would be a simple matter to scale it down to 36" projected span. Why do you reckon that it's better than the Starduster? Is it just the undercambered wing?
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danberry
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« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2012, 07:30:19 PM »

Airfoil, moment arms, areas.
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Scottl0413
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« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2012, 09:23:07 PM »

Tony, just got through reading this thread and it fits right in with what I built last winter, you guest it, an electric Starduster "X" (ref. pic)  It flies very well and is great fun to fly. As you can see by the pics. that the firewall is located a fair bit in front of the wing LE. Motor is an AXI 2208-20 copy, Controller is 18 amp, pwr. (battery is 550 mah 55C 3 cell. Scale it down to 180-200 sq/. inches and but on the E36 pwr. package and it will fly!!!

Scott
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Re: HTL Motor Mounting
Re: HTL Motor Mounting
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BG
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« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2012, 01:10:50 AM »

Hi All,
So I recently completed an "E Bird" which as the name suggests is a cut down T Bird. The boom is carbon of course the wing and stab are basically stock but with the wing shortened slightly. THe fuselage is adapted to take the battery etc. so it is slightly different and more squared off.

As per spec it is launched vertical and goes very well climbing fast starting in a vertical climb that transition to right spirals. The glide is great and it thermals very nicely.

Now all I have to do is add some color to the wings and eventually recover the stab, which can be done in heavy doculam since I need tail weight anyway.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: HTL Motor Mounting
Re: HTL Motor Mounting
Re: HTL Motor Mounting
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tonyshepherd
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« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2012, 07:24:50 AM »

Hi Scott,

Why did you go for the right glide - I thought that left - left was the way to go with HTLs?

Tony
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PeeTee
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« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2012, 09:38:01 AM »

The Starduster may well fly beautifully, but by the cringe, it's plug ugly - stubby fuselage, rectangular wing and fin that looks like a remnant of 1/16" sheet. It's nice to win, but if it means that model, I think I prefer "losing with style" Grin

If you really must have an HTL model, modify the Amazoom to bring the wing up to around 200 squinch, or better still build something soooo smooth - this:

Yes the revised drawing is w.i.p, and it'll be on the building board just as soon as the Sunstroke is out of the way.

You know it makes sense

Toodle pip

Peter
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BG
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« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2012, 09:44:11 AM »

Hi All,
Sorry I made a mistake.....she spirals left.

B
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« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2012, 03:01:15 PM »

The Starduster may well fly beautifully, but by the cringe, it's plug ugly...

I guess it is true that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I cut my eye-teeth on Stardusters. Flown almost every size (ironically enough the only one I've never built/flown is the original "1/2 A Starduster") as a kid. (Favorite was always the 600)

No, they are not the most beautiful airplanes, but, as a young man, seeing one of your Stardusters climb away, then catch  a thermal, well....
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tonyshepherd
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« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2012, 03:19:09 PM »

Pee Tee,

I'm just working on the priciple then when, following simultaneous launches, my ugly Starduster is flying 300 feet above your beautiful Amazoom, no one will give a damn!  Grin

T
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PeeTee
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« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2012, 05:18:44 PM »

Dream on Anth, dream on Wink I shall be flying my superior Sunstroke with the Amazoom as a spare - which by then will be fitted with a hotter motor. I look forward to seeing attempts at launching a left/left model Grin

Quote
No, they are not the most beautiful airplanes, but, as a young man, seeing one of your Stardusters climb away, then catch  a thermal, well....

Iceman, I quite understand, but it's obvious that you are still a young man, and there comes a time when form really does surpass function Grin

That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!

Cheers

Peter
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DaddyO
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« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2012, 03:16:49 AM »

Girls, girls you're both pretty  Grin

Paul

(There may be a few other models whizzing skywards to keep you company)
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« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2017, 08:24:30 PM »

Curious about your comments on the 1/2A Viking model.  Currently building one to be powered by a new Holland Hornet. I'm not a serious competitor, more of a serious sport flyer.  Never could afford this model when it came out but now I'm older and richer.  It was NFFS Model of the Year back in 2011 so I figured it wouldn't be a bad project.  Comments please!
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flydean1
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« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2017, 10:40:10 PM »

Watch the Holland Hornet.  Weakish crankshaft.
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danberry
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« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2017, 10:48:24 PM »

Curious about your comments on the 1/2A Viking model.  Currently building one to be powered by a new Holland Hornet. I'm not a serious competitor, more of a serious sport flyer.  Never could afford this model when it came out but now I'm older and richer.  It was NFFS Model of the Year back in 2011 so I figured it wouldn't be a bad project.  Comments please!


The 1/2A Viking turned more 15 yr old boys away from Free Flight than pretty girls did.
It wasn't MOY in 2011, it was the One-Design plane sponsored by Bill Vanderbeek.
If you're gonna fly it -- be ready to repair it.
It will fly right or left under power. Whatever it does on the first launch is what you want to continue with.
The Holland Hornet crankshaft is just a time bomb.
Good luck.
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PaulBrad
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« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2017, 11:33:36 AM »

Tony - I am joining this thread way late. I built the E36 Starduster from BMJR Model Products. It is a nice kit but builds a very heavy model. Mine is powered with the RedMax motor from Texas Timers turning a Graupner 7x4.5 folder. It is way over powered. The motor and prop pulls the heavy model up very fast, but being over powered it never did get full trimmed. It finally met its end due to a bad launch on my part. I have attached a few photos of my model for your reference.

If you are planning to fly in E36 competition, I would suggest a design other than the Starduster. The Pearl design is easier to build light, and is a terrific performer. Also, listen carefully to Dan Berry. He has tons of experience and is a regular winner here in the States.

Paul Bradley
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TRuss
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« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2017, 05:04:07 PM »

That's real pretty, kind of heavy or not.  I will be building a Starduster with a TD .049 this winter.  I can only hope that it comes out half as nice as that.
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