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Author Topic: Starduster  (Read 1429 times)
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billdennis747
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« on: November 01, 2012, 01:01:29 PM »

Hi all
I want to build a Starduster and would welcome any input on trimming the thing, as it seems very different to the norm. I have built two or three SLOP models, with the traditional right-inner panel washin, rearward cg and right spiral climb etc etc.
This one has no wing warp, no tail tilt, no engine offset etc and turns to the left. Please explain how it works. Is it because the layout is so unorthodox, or that the model seems very big for an 049 (I shall be using a Webra record diesel 1.5). Or has something been left off the kit plan?
thanks for any advice
Bill
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Starduster
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« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2012, 01:17:58 PM »

Which Starduster, exactly are you building? (i.e. Starduster 1/2a(the original), the 'X , the '350, the '600, the '900?)

One thing you have to remember that when the Stardusters were competitive, the motor run was 18 seconds, so an .049 was plenty of power.

And most Stardusters were flown with about an 1/8 inch wash-in (in the right wing, if I remember correctly) and with stab-tilt for the glide.
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billdennis747
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« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2012, 01:51:51 PM »

Hi
It's a 350
What worries me is that right washin and left power sounds like a crash. The plan specifically says no warps and shows no tilt
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billdennis747
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« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2012, 02:13:40 PM »

Sorry - wrong about the tilt - there is a small amount of left panel high to give left turn
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Starduster
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« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2012, 02:51:22 PM »

Hi
It's a 350
What worries me is that right washin and left power sounds like a crash. The plan specifically says no warps and shows no tilt

Yes, I could well be wrong about the wash-in. I'm working from memory.

And, yup, the 350 was large, even back then, but man-o-man did it float....

(In fact, I think we had 25 second motor runs when I first started flying competitively)
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PeeTee
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« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2012, 03:13:35 PM »

Bill

The Starduster is a High Thrust Line model with an under fin. As I understand it, all designs to this configuration fly left/left. I've built the Bounty Hunter and Amazoom and the instructions advise this flight pattern. Wash in on the right wing panel is normal for pylon power models which fly right/right.

I would expect a modicum of wash in on the left inner panel to get the model to roll to the right for the spiral climb. There is some trimming information on Stardusters - albeit electric power, here: http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php/topic,10127.0.html

Why not build an electric one  Grin?

Cheers

Peter
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luthierdan
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« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2012, 03:44:10 PM »

Fly Left/Left, wash-in on main Left panel, wash-out both wing tips, right rudder tab as needed. Use stab tilt for turn (left side high, looking from rear.)
Regards,
Dan McLeod 
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billdennis747
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« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2012, 03:54:06 PM »

Thanks all - I shall go ahead. If it's good enough for Sal Taibi...
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flydean1
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« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2012, 05:09:12 PM »

I agree with Dan about Starduster setup.  Keep in mind--it MUST go left.  I would add right rudder tab very reluctantly.  If it is hooking to the left immediately after launch something is out of line.  Also recommend short pieces of TE stock on the side of the fin instead of a tab.  I use packaging tape.  It is easier, and fills in the "step" formed by the thin part of the TE stock.

Also, run the engine flat out and launch vertical.  Short engine run (3 - 4 sec) and quick DT.  Go to the NFFS website and work your way to the electronic Free Flight Digest.  There is an article in there on T-Birds where Larry Davidson demonstrates the correct technique.  It works on Stardusters as well.

Sometimes Hi-Thrust models are reluctant to roll.  So in addition to the left inner panel wash-in, be prepared to skew the wing.  Left tip forward produces a right roll moment.  Go 1/64 inch at a time.  You want a roll every 5 - 7 seconds or so.  I don't know how much engine run you are allowed, but I trim for the short run and usually it is OK for the longer one.

I don't know if you have yours built, but if not, I would definitely add turbulator spars (one at the high point and two between there and the LE) on the top of the wing.  It prevents premature airflow separation.  On occasion, Stardusters would transition poorly and mush all the way to the ground.  The turb spars prevent that.
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Starduster
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« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2012, 07:40:07 AM »

I don't know if you have yours built, but if not, I would definitely add turbulator spars (one at the high point and two between there and the LE) on the top of the wing.  It prevents premature airflow separation.  On occasion, Stardusters would transition poorly and mush all the way to the ground.  The turb spars prevent that.

Good idea, but Bill said that it's a 350, so the wing already has them.
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« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2012, 11:00:43 AM »

Bill, the 350 is a great flyer! Use the previouse tips on trimming for a left/left flight pattern. It will be under powered with an 049 unless you're thinking about a Cyclon or something similar. I built mine with a Cox TD .09 and it flies great! A newer .061 may be a good option also. I have built an "X" version with electric pwr. and it's alot of fun also!

Scot
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billdennis747
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« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2012, 11:04:13 AM »

Well I started cutting ribs on Saturday evening and here we are on Monday afternoon. It certainly goes together quickly
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I hate trees
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« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2012, 03:34:51 PM »

Bill,
You've had a week now, have you got it trimmed yet?

I had the good fortune to hang out with Sal Taibi at his home and at Taft back in the late 80s as part of a small group of UK fliers over there.  I saw at close hand him flying a hot 60 powered version of the Starduster and the thing just seemed to go up vertically and very fast and then transition straight into a floating glide.  At the time I was a dyed in the wool rubber flier, but that Starduster was mightily impressive.  This inspired me to have a go at power flying.  Sal sold me one of his kits for a Starduster (the smaller one) and another modeller donated a Cox Tee Dee.  For one reason or another the model hasn't ever got built but I still have the kit with its signed box and I will have a go at it before too long. 

After seeing Sal's version I've always wondered why more haven't been built for SLOP as it seems to have as much potential as anything else.  Look forward to seeing your one go.
Adam
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billdennis747
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« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2012, 06:22:31 PM »

Adam
No, I had to do a little bit of work this week so all I have done is stick on the engine mount.
Were all Stardusters of the same proportion? Is the 350 the same as the 1/2A but with more span? It seems very short-coupled. It is rather nose heavy with the Webra Record but we'll see
Bill
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« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2013, 06:31:06 PM »

I built a couple Stardusters over the years. Last one in the mid 80's. It was a 350 with TD .049.  I hadn't flown any FF in a while and was doing some plans for Mel Shmidt's 1/2A Shoccer kit, so he helped me trim it out and he made sure everything as as per plan. Did first flight and had to trim the glide a bit but never changed another thing. Biggest concern I had was adding lead to tail to get proper CG. Should have lost the Cox tank mount! In any event, i flew it for two years and had a ball. norvels and Chinese engines made my TD obsolete, but it is a sweet and nostalgic combination and I plan to do another in near future.

What size Starduster do I want for a K&B .23 with provision for tuned rear exhaust?  A 700? Could I just blow the 350 plan? I'd enjoy the draw.
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« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2013, 06:02:56 AM »

What size Starduster do I want for a K&B .23 with provision for tuned rear exhaust?  A 700? Could I just blow the 350 plan? I'd enjoy the draw.

Well, there was no "700" but a .23 would fly a '600' very nicely indeed.  In fact, the 600 was always my favorite of the series. It has turbulator spars like the 350.

If you are interested, I have a NIB 600 kit that I'd be willing to part with.... pm me if you are interested.
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