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Author Topic: Confused re Dixielander Setup  (Read 1345 times)
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binbag
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« on: December 05, 2012, 01:46:03 PM »

Hi there,

I am a little confused about the trim setup for a dixielander. I am doing a SLOP version so it's suitable for more than one event type. The engine choice is a Ollie tiger replica or OS 15 FP, using standard suction. I am building it from the yeoman plan which says 3/8 washout on each tip and 3/8 washin on right inner panel.

According to some research this is wrong and I have found many other versions of trim settings. Peter Michel in the January 2009 SAM 1066 mag said it should be 3/8 washout on left outer panel and 3/16 washout on the right outer with centre panels flat. In the same issue John Thompson states that you only need to reduce the washin from original settings if using powerful engines.

Mooching around the interweb it gets more confusing - come on you power experts, help out a novice, I'm very confused

Thanks
Ralph
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« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2012, 01:57:58 PM »

Ralph:

The April 1959 issue of Aeromodeller included an article by George Fuller on trimming the Dixielander.  It showed 2 degree washout in both tips and 3 degrees of wash-in in right main panel. Note that this wash-in provides the only decalage, as wing center and stab center are parallel.

Sorry, but the tiny three-view in the article doesn't show wing chord, so you'll have to convert degrees to inch amounts of wash in/out.

The article also suggests shimming the wing, rather then the stab, to adjust power pattern.  Glide is adjusted by moving CG after climb is adjusted.

Louis
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applehoney
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« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2012, 02:27:25 PM »

Yeoman washout/washin amounts appear to be a little extreme.   Think 50% of each would be adequate, left inner panel flat
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hastf1b
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« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2012, 03:11:28 PM »

Here is a later version of George Fuller.

Heinz
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« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2012, 03:35:10 PM »

Ralph

The August 86 issue of Aeromodeller had a SLOP trimming article by Pete Harris, and also a 3 view of John West's Dixie which appears to have less extreme warps etc to the Yeoman plan. Attached is a scan, but if you can't read it, pm me your home addy and I'll put a photocopy in the post to you.

Peter
ps the Dave Clarkson SLOP trimming articles in Aeromodeller are also excellent
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glidermaster
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« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2012, 03:45:48 PM »

Wing chord is 7" so 2 degs equates to about 1/4", and 3 degs is therefore about 3/8".

I can't recall what I put in mine (I've built 2), but I would be happier with 3/16" washout in both tips, and no more than 1/4" washin on the right hand inner.

John

p.s. you can't put an Ollie in a SLOP, the engine has to be plain bearing.
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hastf1b
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« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2012, 04:06:04 PM »

I built my dixielander after the yeoman plan. Unfortunately, he has not yet flown.

Heinz
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RobinB
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« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2012, 04:05:58 AM »

Mine is also built from the original kit plan with a gravity-fed plain bearing engine in order to qualify as both Classic and SLOP.

On George's advice I used 1/4"" warps and a small amount of left thrust. It's still a bit 'rolly', but it does transit into the glide quite nicely. CG is at about 103%. A 1" length of 1/8 x 1/16 on the right side of the fin TE keeps it turning into the roll. It doesn't have as much tail tilt as is usually shown on 3-views.

As Glidermaster said the Ollie isn't SLOP-legal. Anyway, you'd have to put a fair bit of weight in the back to get the CG back far enough!

Robin
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« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2012, 10:37:35 AM »

I looked up the Dave Hipperson series 'A Cautious Return to Open Power' (Aeromodeller, circa 1995) which was written around him building a pair of AM35 powered Dixielanders. He started flying one of his 2 models with much less warp than stated on the plan; trace amounts of washout in the tips, and 1/8" washin on the RH inner panel. He ended up with 3/16" washout on both tips, and 3/16" washin on the RH inner.

I can scan this series, and email if anyone wants it. I thoroughly recommend it for anyone starting out in a bit of power flying.

John
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mwj1045
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« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2012, 11:57:27 AM »

John if you would scan and email that would be great. My addy is '[email protected]net.com'. Appreciate your offer, have a great Christmas

Martin
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« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2012, 01:31:37 PM »

Hi there;

could you send a copy of the article to me  - I have sent a PM with my email details
Many thanks
Ralph
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Ployd
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« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2012, 04:23:20 PM »

This came from the man himself, "I use 1/4" washin and washout on my models as the amount shown on the Yeoman plan is wrong"...George Fuller.

I have been corresponding with George for some time on this subject and it would appear that when the original plan was drafted, the warp angle of 3 degrees translated into 3/8" washin and washout across the 7" wing chord. It does work but is excessive and as John West discovered with his version it can be reduced.
I have used 3/16" (5mm) washin and washout on my versions (OS 15FP on pressure, 8 x 3.75 carbon prop and nitro) so 1/4" (6.3mm) would be about right for a lower power SLOP model.

Ployd in OZ
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sweepettelee
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« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2012, 10:25:21 PM »

Sorry folks but PLoydie is showing photo of what I am sure must be Narranderra, because the weeds are high.  Tongue
Have troubles with retrievals, Peter?  Huh  I recall that only too well... Roll Eyes

Sorry if I highjacked this thread for a moment.
Now back to your program in progress...
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« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2012, 10:58:03 PM »

Sorry folks but PLoydie is showing photo of what I am sure must be Narranderra, because the weeds are high.  Tongue
Have troubles with retrievals, Peter?  Huh  I recall that only too well... Roll Eyes

Sorry if I highjacked this thread for a moment.
Now back to your program in progress...

Now be nice. Grin   
Guess you know we are all, well some of us are heading there in January for the Nats.   Don't know what the grass is like at the moment, but it should be really really HOT.  I just hope it's not too windy, but I'm not counting on it.
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« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2012, 03:28:10 AM »

Quote
Sorry folks but PLoydie is showing photo of what I am sure must be Narranderra

Lee

That looks more like Salisbury Plain to me - the flat bit. The valleys of doom are out of sight in the piccie Sad

Look forward to seeing you on your 'grand tour' next year.

Peter
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« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2012, 03:42:00 AM »

That looks more like Salisbury Plain to me - the flat bit. The valleys of doom are out of sight in the piccie Sad

And if you look carefully the Chiggers are just about to start crawling up George's leg which confirms that it is Salisbury Plain during the 'summer'  Wink

Paul
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« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2012, 11:18:36 AM »

Hellooooooo, now what gives you the idea that PLoyd, a
Melbourne, Aussie who likes to stay 'in country', would
venture all the way To Salisbury Plain in UK? Roll Eyes
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« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2012, 12:55:20 PM »

Hellooooooo, now what gives you the idea that PLoyd, a
Melbourne, Aussie who likes to stay 'in country', would
venture all the way To Salisbury Plain in UK? Roll Eyes

Lorks Leeper it must be worse than I thought then: If you blow up the photo you can clearly see the harvest mites (aka 'chiggers') with the characteristic brindle pattern on their backs; these are only found on Salisbury plain . . . till now. If what you say is true then it means they have somehow migrated to Aus.!  Shocked Roll Eyes

Paul (checking his Boys own pocket book of parasetic insects)

ps
I suppose they may have been photoshopped in at a later date  Undecided
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« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2012, 01:24:59 PM »

Paul,
The Aussie story I heard(if one can think for even
 one moment that the Mickie is not being taken)is that such
detritus was brought over from England when they were banished
to downunder! Surely just a fable, but the field must be in OZ, for
 reasons I stated prior.
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Leeper
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« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2012, 01:50:55 PM »

No doubt the wonders of the internet wafted a photo of George from sunny Blighty to his mate Peter in Oz - simples eh wot Wink

Peter - not from Oz
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« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2012, 02:02:25 PM »

I know I've been out of the country for almost 18 years, but I'm sure that's England that George is kneeling on........

......and although it's a Dixielander, it's not his model he's holding.

JB
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« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2012, 02:35:51 PM »

OK, Apologies here.
I admit I was wrong in believing the gent in reply 11 photo was Peter Lloyd.
If the gent in the pix is George Fuller, who I have never met, he looks remarkably like PLoydie!

Again, back to your previously scheduled program... Grin Embarrassed
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