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Author Topic: Blizzard E36  (Read 14364 times)
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JohnOSullivan
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« on: February 10, 2013, 05:33:05 PM »

I'm an occasional poster and constant lurker here and have been struck with the E36 concept and have decided to take part. My first step was to adapt a version of my HI-Tee and Executioner open power models from the 60's. I rescaled them to 36 inches projected and this is what I came up with. The fuselage is of 1/16" triangular section with carbon longerons. The wings are based on the Hi-Tee planform with Executioner semi Geodetic structure.
Hardware is coming from Hobby King (various Escs motors and batteries).
Fuselage is complete but I left it with a bit of nose overlength to take CG placement into account. I got a single wing panel built today.  not having done much FF construction lately, I must say I had some added effort on the finess of construction, compared to my usual R/C building standard. 
I was at a loss as to what to call this thing, originally going for Sparkle, but after this weekends snow storm and 164 kph winds, settled for BLIZZARD.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Blizzard E36
Blizzard E36
Blizzard E36
Blizzard E36
Blizzard E36
Blizzard E36
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John O'Sullivan
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« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2013, 11:18:19 AM »

Hi John.

Great name for model considering the time, place and weather event  Wink

I'll be following your build with interest.
The little nano-techs that are 300mah/7.4 lipos look to be the pefect size and capacity for you models fuse size and triangle configuration.
fyi - the similar capacity 350mah's 65~130 2s's nano-techs are more than twice the physical size the these smaller 300mah's so maybe only good for fitting with a slab sided e-36 fuse.

question- do you use bulkheads in the triangle fuse to keep the shape ?

take care and thanks for the build posting, john s.
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tonyshepherd
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« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2013, 07:47:16 AM »

But if you want to get some serious grunt out of the motor, then go for the 65C nano tech 350mah.

I've been flying an E36 Top Banana for quite a while now and it pulls fine with an Axi 2203 Race and GWS 7x3.5, battery has been the Thunder Power 325mah 65C weighing 25.4g .  On the bench the prop speed drops from 13k1 to 12k2 over 15 secs.

The other night I tried it with a Turnigy 65C nano tech 350mah which weighs about 30.5g and the prop speed was 13k9 to 13k3 over the 15 secs.  Taking the thrust as being proportional to the square of the rpm, that's a lot of extra grunt for about 5g!

Tony
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John
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« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2013, 08:13:08 AM »

Hi John,

Glad to see you are back into F/F again and the name is very appropriate considering the Blizzard we had. You have certainly got on well with it since last week. I am looking forward to seeing it fly and it makes me want to have a go at E36 myself, but still have to finish the two Crescendo's first.

John
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JohnOSullivan
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« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2013, 08:48:04 AM »

The nice thing about this class is that it is still in the experimental stage and allows a fair bit of juggling to optimise the electrical systems.
The current decay over the 15 second flight is something which may me very important.
My electrical bits have not yet arrived (in Vancouver customs for over a week now)
Tony, you will be pleased to know that I have a couple of Turnigy 350 65Cs coming so I'll have a fair range of batteries to try.
I like the AXI 2203 and looking through HK motors got a T-Motors T2403 which is similar to the AXI 2203. A friend had one of these on a 9 oz indoor model and it performs well although he did smoke it on 3 cells.

JohnS -The triangular fuselage has no formers other than the firewall. In the past I have joined the sides and top with doped tissue and hinged them with the tissue on the inside, but having no dope or tissue at the moment, opted for 3/32 sq. longerons and sanded to 60 deg for joining. The joints were then sanded to flats on the corners and capped with a 3/32" wide strip of 0.005 thou Dave Brown carbon. The carbon added about 1 gm and stiffened up the fuselage greatly. Finished fuselage with overlength nose (to be trimmed) is just on 24 gm.

John- I have extra spars, LE and TE cut for you so you'll have no excuse.

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John O'Sullivan
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tonyshepherd
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« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2013, 08:58:40 AM »

John,

I'd suggest that it's the decay over 10 secs that is more important, as unless the weather is appalingly windy (as it was at Middle Wallop over her the other day for the UK's first E36 comp, 20+ mph all day!) then 2 mins off 15 secs is very easy to achieve.  It's not the capacity of the battery that is the important thing, but the ability to deliver the stored energy quickly and that's where the nano tech seems to score. It's the C rating that we need, but please note that some supposedly high C rated packs are much better than others of the same rating!!

Tony
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Scottl0413
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« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2013, 09:10:18 AM »

John, great looking E36!!! Looks like we are going to have alot of activity in this class this year. The little Nano Tech batteries are great. Just as a note, the 300 mah 2 cell 25C and the 300 mah 2 cell 45C are the same size, the 45C is 2 grams heavier at 19 grams vs. 17 grams.

Scott
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PeeTee
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« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2013, 10:25:32 AM »

Quote
It's the C rating that we need, but please note that some supposedly high C rated packs are much better than others of the same rating!!


Not just that, but some claimed high C rated packs are much worse than those with a more modest rating. There has been much discussion on RC Groups (sorry!) on this subject by noted experts, and a typical comment from one lipo tester is:

An excellent point and one that is obviously lost on the manufacturers and those slapping ridiculously absurd ratings on their packs just to pump up sales. Far too many have bought into the C rating game and the time is ripe to put a stop to all of the nonsense.

If enough modelers speak out against these obviously shady rating practices, I'm hopeful that there will eventually be some improvement and consumers can have some confidence in where they're spending their money.



A number of packs have undergone independent testing and some of the results can be found here:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1578001

Happy reading!

Peter
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tonyshepherd
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« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2013, 02:27:36 PM »

The problem is that no-one has defined what the C rating actually means.  Yes, it's the current that the pack can supply without blowing up (I expect!) but the enormous drop off in voltage means that the actual power that come out of the pack (remember power= volts x amps) is actually much reduced at the higher currents.

Tony
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JohnOSullivan
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« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2013, 12:45:15 PM »

Well I have not made much headway on the model, but I have got my electrical stuff sorted.
Most of it is from HobbyKing and the timer is from Starlink.

The motors have been checked with 8x4 Gws props (not slowfly). This and 7x5 APC are the only props I have suitable at the moment, but I am awaiting 7x3.8 GWS props

Hobbyking  C2403 17.4 gm, 2100kv,  8x4 GWS, 78 watts 10.2A  said to be good to 120W

Hobbyking 20gm motor 19.4 gm, 2300kv 8x4 GWS, 71W 9.8A

Hobbyking AX 1806 25.2 gm, 2500 kv,  8x4 GWS,  86W 12.2A   may be a bit too big prop - 7X3.8 GWS likely better.

Will have to test with Graupner folders also.

Timer fits nicely in triangular fuselage.

I'll have to get some construction done this weekend, although we have a snow fly on a local lake tomorrow if the Ice is thick enough and the current 40 to 60 kph winds die down.
,
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Blizzard E36
Re: Blizzard E36
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John O'Sullivan
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« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2013, 09:03:34 PM »

You don't need to concern yourself with rpm loss over 15 or 10 seconds. It's a moot point.
The contest doesn't start until you are down to a five sec motor. Good planes will do about 80 secs on a five second motor.
At 10 and 15 secs it's a problem for your timekeeper just keeping it in sight.

The Blizzard looks fun so far.
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JohnOSullivan
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« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2013, 08:26:02 PM »

Finished the wing for the Blizzard tonight.
Transparent Micafilm (old stock) for the centre panels and wing tip bottoms. Yellow Ultracote Lite transparent for the wing tip tops.
Bare wing weight before covering 20.1 gm, and 28.3 gm after covering. Will post some pictures tomorrow. Wing is strong.
My washin on the right centre panel seems to have disappeared, and with the geodetic structure, I don't know if I can get it back.
I used Tony Matthews contact cement and thinners for the cover attachment and it is far better than Coverite Balsarite.
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John O'Sullivan
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JohnOSullivan
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« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2013, 07:14:53 AM »

Photos of current state of the Blizzard. Need to get working on the tailplane so I can fit gear and finalize nose length.
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Re: Blizzard E36
Re: Blizzard E36
Re: Blizzard E36
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John O'Sullivan
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« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2013, 06:38:02 AM »

Blizzard is finished except for DT line.
All up weight is 127.4 gm (4.5 oz) balanced. Covering is mostly white (old style) Micafilm, my favorite covering.
It appears sturdy enough, but I thought it would be heavier.
Heading out to our annual exhibition at the Shearwater Aviation Museum.
It will be one of the few Free Flight models there. Will post pictures later.
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John O'Sullivan
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« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2013, 10:59:58 AM »

Waiting for some decent weather now.
After trimming off the long nose to adjust CG, the weight dropped  a bit to 125.3 gm.
Hobbyking AX 1806 motor, Bluebird 303 servo, Turnigy Plush 10Amp ESC and NanoTech 300 35-70C Battery.
Can fit NanoTech 350 65-130C in a little more rearward position.
I have PDF full size Plans finalized too. If anyone wants a plan contact me at [email protected].
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Blizzard E36
Re: Blizzard E36
Re: Blizzard E36
Re: Blizzard E36
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John O'Sullivan
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« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2013, 11:03:11 AM »

Looks good John!
I like the retro look combined with the modern power plant. Something cool about that....


Tmat
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« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2013, 11:40:02 AM »

John

It looks very nice - congrats. Also the weight is about the lowest I've seen for an E36 to the current specification. Have you made any changes compared with the plan you were kind enough to send me back in January?

Happy trimming

Peter
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John
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« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2013, 12:17:05 PM »

Hi John,

Well done it looks good and its nice to see you back into free flight. Let me know when you are going out to give it its maiden flight as I would like to be there, let me know.

John
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DaddyO
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« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2013, 12:37:08 PM »

Classy looking bird John and comendably light too, well done. Cheesy

Cheeripip
Paul
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JohnOSullivan
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« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2013, 12:51:38 PM »

The January plan was a draft before the model was built. The latest plan has all the minor mods incorporated in the build.
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John O'Sullivan
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« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2013, 01:47:06 PM »

John,
Can you send me the plan? Maybe I could publish it in the MAAC mag....


Tmat
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Dansrans
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« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2013, 01:49:41 PM »

John

Your model looks really nice and is very light. I'm also really impressed with your plan drawing skills.

Hope all goes well trimming.

Dan
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JohnOSullivan
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« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2013, 09:03:55 PM »

I had the Blizzard out tonight at the R/C field. Got some strange looks and they wanted to know where my transmitter was.

Made about 10 flights with 5 sec motor run and 2 sec DT.
Flew beautifully, with a touch of right rudder trim. Half a turn in 5 secs. Thrust line 0-0.
I did not get much of a feel for the glide on the short DT, but it glides nicely from hand launches.
On one flight it climbed flat and straight at about 15 degrees. I found that that the tailplane had overridden the 1/16 square tailplane mount stop, increasing incidence.
So far very happy with it and it handles just like  my old gas models.
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John O'Sullivan
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« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2013, 08:29:46 AM »

Hi John,

Well done I knew you could do it, I have ordered a Mutt kit which seems, according to the UPS tracking, to be going through every state in the US. Thinking about taking some rubber models to Shearwater this weekend so let me know if you are interested, you should have no problem checking the glide out there.

John 
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JohnOSullivan
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« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2013, 12:25:17 PM »

I got a chance to try the Blizzard on a real airfield today. John and Brian Richards and I had our first flying session at our newly acquired field at Shearwater Airbase in Nova Scotia, on Canada's east coast.
The RC club were flying about a mile along the runway from us without conflict. Amongst other models, they had at least a half dozen jet turbines.
The only problems were the short delays we had to endure while the Coast Guard were carrying out helicopter exercises.
The Blizzard performed flawlessly, but due to the wind direction, I had to limit DT to 2 seconds. The 15 second motor run gets the model very high indeed.
The model trims out very easily, with just a little twinge of right rudder trim.
It is many years since I flew  a power model on a 15 sec motor run and was impressed by the altitude it reached.
I have attached a shot of the Blizzard nestled in the arms of my 3.2 metre Pulsar, Ukrainian Electric RC sailplane (3000 ft/min climb)
The simplicity and lack of BS in the E 36 class has impressed me greatly and any attempt to introduce any complications in the rules should be avoided.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Blizzard E36
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John O'Sullivan
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