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Author Topic: Blizzard E36  (Read 14366 times)
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airplay
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« Reply #50 on: August 12, 2015, 02:59:26 PM »

Bad sense of humor, Iceman...

Back on track: JohnOS I will tilt more as I was told on the field from the ace. Some of his models had 10 degrees or more. Just somehow ugly'ish.

Does any of you experts arrest the mainplane in any way besides the rubberbands? I find it moves a bit around and needs new line-up each launch

Jens
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 03:27:02 PM by airplay » Logged
Starduster
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« Reply #51 on: August 12, 2015, 03:09:58 PM »

Bad sense of humor, Iceman...

Back on track: JohnOS I will tilt more as a was told on the field from the ace. Some of his models had 10 degrees or more. Just somehow ugly'ish.

Does any of you experts arrest the mainplane in any way besides the rubberbands? I find it moves a bit around and needs new line-up each launch

Jens

Yes, I know, I have a sick sense of humor...

Everything should be 'keyed'. Once you put the airplane together, and the wing and tail are aligned and true, split some hardwood dowels, 3/16 inch diameter and about 3/8 inch long (so you have half-rounds). Glue these on the underside if the wing and stab next to the mounts. I'm not convinced of how critical it is for a stab that does not have the rudder/fin attached, but it is important for the wing. Sal Taibi keyed everything. It's hard to argue with success.

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"We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty..."
John
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« Reply #52 on: August 13, 2015, 06:40:25 AM »

May be a dumb question but what is a SHOC mount?

See the picture, it's normally a 1/16 ply piece that is under the leading edge of the stab, attached to the fuselage. The rubber band goes through the slot and keeps the stab from moving forward or aft.

Hi Iceman,

I new it was a dumb question have been using this on My E36 Mutt & Dynamo-E F1Q for a while now which works okay, must have been a seniors moment. Thanks anyway for letting me know.

JohnR
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airplay
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« Reply #53 on: August 30, 2015, 11:12:06 AM »

Another outing for my trusty Blizzard

 Now with Starduster wing fixatures and a no trills altimeter from RCTools.de. This altimeter has a display and informs you on max altitude on your 5 last flights. Weight 2.5 g. Works perfect for training launches and powertrain stuff.
And it was indeed perfect weather . Drifting conditions and small thermals popping up every 10 min.
We flew on Vaerlose Airbase now run by danish nature governement and open for all kind of outdoor activity without noise....The area is 3,5 x 1,4 km big.

News: R/R pattern with extra tilt.
5sec consistent about 50m gain. 10sec consistent about 95m gain. Surprise: 6x4 ACP good on 10sec. Does anyone know a 6.5x3.8 prop?

Conclution: The Blizzard design is a very good E36 design. Climb very well and glide is fine too. But best of all it is very forgiving and flies right from the drawing.

I might build another one soon for back up. And with better architecture for electronics.

Jens

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airplay
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« Reply #54 on: September 30, 2015, 02:41:34 PM »

Update:

Yesterday I had another testing on the Blizzard design. Perfect weather but in a small field so we just had a go on different set-up's.
So now my news are with Emax CF2805, Nanotech 300 AUW 130g on 5 sec:
GSW 7x3,5 50-55 m
7,5 x 3,5 folder from Graupner about 60-65 m
But then a APC 7x4 , Heavy at 8.7 g but 71-76 m on 5 sec...

So Blizzard do climb well. Cant wait for Cobra 2304 test as it on my testrig performs 20-30% better.

And the glide is very normal....

Jens


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JohnOSullivan
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« Reply #55 on: September 30, 2015, 02:53:18 PM »

A nice review of altitudes with various propellers. I have stuck with the GWS 7x3.5 and appear to be getting similar altitudes as you are with that prop. I'm not convinced that the extra weight and complexity of a folder prop is required.
I'll have to try the APC 7x4.
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John O'Sullivan
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airplay
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« Reply #56 on: September 30, 2015, 03:27:59 PM »

Between us John my partner commented on his several folders for his 3 E36s : What?
Hope we can have a real test soon with the former WC's
 from this region...
Jens
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Tmat
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« Reply #57 on: September 30, 2015, 04:53:35 PM »

Update:

But then a APC 7x4 , Heavy at 8.7 g but 71-76 m on 5 sec...

Jens, some of the USA West coast guys have found even better results with their E36's using an APC 6x5.5 or 6x6. You might want to give it a try especially with the Cobra.


Tmat
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airplay
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« Reply #58 on: September 30, 2015, 05:08:24 PM »

I try that Tmat... And love the sharing of our common hobby.
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danberry
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« Reply #59 on: September 30, 2015, 07:09:54 PM »

Update:

But then a APC 7x4 , Heavy at 8.7 g but 71-76 m on 5 sec...

Jens, some of the USA West coast guys have found even better results with their E36's using an APC 6x5.5 or 6x6. You might want to give it a try especially with the Cobra.


Tmat

....not just the Westies.......
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Tapio Linkosalo
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« Reply #60 on: October 01, 2015, 12:33:32 AM »

70+ meters on a 5 second motor run?!   .... I see a rules change lurking behind a corner. :-(

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PeeTee
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« Reply #61 on: October 01, 2015, 05:20:59 AM »

Quote
70+ meters on a 5 second motor run?!   .... I see a rules change lurking behind a corner.

Why? If you are thinking of F1S, given that in subsequent fly-off flights the max increases by a minute each time, an evening fly-off should sort things out quite quickly. I know that some might claim that it's meant to be a 'small field' class, but in reality it's no different to F1G - coupe and F1H - A/1.

Let's not worry about supposed excess performance until we start seeing significant numbers maxing out plus several fly-off rounds.
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« Reply #62 on: October 01, 2015, 08:24:21 AM »

70+ meters on a 5 second motor run?!   .... I see a rules change lurking behind a corner. :-(
Well, it depends on the sink rate doesn't it?
Anyone have any decent sink rate numbers for an E36?
I'm guessing it's over 0.5 meters/sec? (1.64 ft/sec). I think I've seen numbers even higher (2 ft/sec) than that published but cannot recall.
At 0.5 m/s sink rate, a 70 meter climb gives a glide time of 140 sec + 5 seconds for climb = 145 sec.
At 0.6 m/s (2 ft/sec) the glide time would be 116 sec + 5 = 121 seconds.

I'm guessing that his model can just max from a 5 second run in still air. Which is very good!
As I recall, Stan B. and Ralph R. are already doing over 2 minutes from 5 seconds.

To almost guarantee a max from 5 seconds I think you'd need to be able to do 3 minutes in dead air. Perhaps then a rule change could be discussed.

But just as a "what if" exercise, what sort of rule change would anyone think would be acceptable?

Tmat
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danberry
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« Reply #63 on: October 01, 2015, 09:20:53 AM »

The E36 hasn't caught up with AMA Gas yet.
When a preponderance of guys are around the country ( read-outside of Lost Hills) are knocking out 10-12 maxes, we'll reduce the motor run from the five sec mark. Until then, we'll leave them alone.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 09:39:16 AM by danberry » Logged
Tapio Linkosalo
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« Reply #64 on: October 01, 2015, 09:27:03 AM »


Well, it depends on the sink rate doesn't it?
Anyone have any decent sink rate numbers for an E36?
I'm guessing it's over 0.5 meters/sec? (1.64 ft/sec). I think I've seen numbers even higher (2 ft/sec) than that published but cannot recall.
At 0.5 m/s sink rate, a 70 meter climb gives a glide time of 140 sec + 5 seconds for climb = 145 sec.
At 0.6 m/s (2 ft/sec) the glide time would be 116 sec + 5 = 121 seconds.

I'm guessing that his model can just max from a 5 second run in still air. Which is very good!
As I recall, Stan B. and Ralph R. are already doing over 2 minutes from 5 seconds.

To almost guarantee a max from 5 seconds I think you'd need to be able to do 3 minutes in dead air. Perhaps then a rule change could be discussed.

But just as a "what if" exercise, what sort of rule change would anyone think would be acceptable?

I would guess 0.5 to 0.6 m/s. My P-30 's do ~0.55, with lower loading but that drag generator up front. E-36 probably should do about the same. So we are talking 2+ minutes from 5 second motor run.

And here is the problem. Obvious way to cut the performance would be to drop the motor run, but I'd hate to see E-36 go to 5sec/3sec motor run format. F1C is going along that road, and I do not like the result...
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Tmat
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« Reply #65 on: October 01, 2015, 10:29:23 AM »

The E36 hasn't caught up with AMA Gas yet.
When a preponderance of guys are around the country ( read-outside of Lost Hills) are knocking out 10-12 maxes, we'll reduce the motor run from the five sec mark. Until then, we'll leave them alone.

Totally agree. And the flyoff flights (AMA E36 or F1S) are usually in thermal conditions which means that maxing is mostly about air picking. Which is also what happens with P30. There are plenty of P30's that can do well over 2 minutes in dead air. But usually only a few people max out at any given contest. Thermals are the great equalizer.


Tmat
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airplay
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« Reply #66 on: October 02, 2015, 05:43:30 PM »

E36 models are not great floaters (yet) so calm down guys.. But a wonderfull simple class. One simple rule adjustment could be a max battery weight . 20g total with plug and on the normal marked. Just my first ideas...
Jens
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Tapio Linkosalo
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« Reply #67 on: October 02, 2015, 11:30:05 PM »

One simple rule adjustment could be a max battery weight .


I do not think that would work, it would just lead to pushing he batteries to their limits, discharging with extreme currents, leading the batteries to heat up and wear out after a few cycles. Remember that there used to be battery weight limit in F1Q, but that rule was lifted as it was considered non-functional or even dangerous. If there was an easy way to limit the electric power, then I guess that would be enforced in F1Q already...
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« Reply #68 on: October 03, 2015, 06:47:18 AM »

Also it is not really practical to limit to those on "the normal market" because while in some countries, possibly Denmark and certainly Germany the batteries must be 'officially" labelled if they are sold through 'normal' domestic retail outlets that is not the case everywhere. Same thing on modifying the packaging, that too is hard to enforce because many of the hobby shops relabel the batteries with their own brands so who is to say what packaging is modified or not. 


Roger
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Randy Reynolds
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« Reply #69 on: October 03, 2015, 11:01:29 AM »

What if we just worked from a position of trust in this very simple event?  How many events have been destroyed by trying to imagineer boiler plate rules to frustrate potential cheaters?  Simple seems to be working in E36 so far.
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sweepettelee
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« Reply #70 on: October 03, 2015, 01:04:23 PM »

Well stated Randy.  Keeping the fun aspect is of critical importance...
Trust, then let our eyeballs & a decent time passage to test the veracity of the event status before jumping to any other conclusions.
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Leeper
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« Reply #71 on: October 03, 2015, 01:13:03 PM »

Totally agree.

Ray
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Tapio Linkosalo
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« Reply #72 on: October 03, 2015, 02:40:51 PM »

The problem is not "the normal market", the problem is that whatever the allowed maximum weight (and hence capacity), in order to get maximum performance people will end up pushing the limits of the batteries, running at higher and higher discharge currents until we reach a situation where the batteries are toast after a handful of cycles. Not practical!

RC aircombat people limit the power by stating maximum prop diameter and pitch, together with maximum allowed (static) RPM.
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« Reply #73 on: October 03, 2015, 02:59:00 PM »

Tapio you have a point. But prop restrictions way have no meaning on electric power unless very small diameter (and loud then) Maybe a simple 10A fuse delivered from CD ?
Jens.
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« Reply #74 on: October 04, 2015, 12:07:05 AM »

A fuse was also considered when thinking about means to limit the power in F1Q class. The concern with them was the possible variation in the actual fusing current. What if the tolerance is several percentage, in worst case you get a unit that blow already below 10A. Would you need a ground testing rig to test your fuse before the contest, and can you return it to the CD if it failed?
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