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Author Topic: DPC Sopwith Triplane - Kit Scale - Build  (Read 8689 times)
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Russ Lister
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« Reply #50 on: March 21, 2013, 05:22:38 PM »

Aaaah! ... I nearly got there.

Nah .... if it's judged to the 'full letter of the law' it could end up as a zero pointer!
I might switch to open, but then it falls down on surfaces, rib spacings etc.etc.  Sad
I had told myself to just build it as stock too ... so I've brought it on myself.
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Andy Sephton
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« Reply #51 on: March 22, 2013, 06:43:38 AM »

Go for it Russ, remember that the flying marks are worth twice as much as the static, so you are still in with a good chance!

Thanks for use of your Lysander shot for my profile pic, btw

Andy
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Too much thrust is never enough!
Russ Lister
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« Reply #52 on: March 23, 2013, 07:40:35 PM »

Thanks Andy ... I think I've got the bit between my teeth enough on this one to finish it.

No problem re. the photos ... glad to be of help.
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Russ Lister
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« Reply #53 on: March 28, 2013, 07:51:13 PM »

A bit more progress to report:

Added the sheeting to the forward fuselage.
Laid the UC up on a jig ... the holes are not as well aligned as hoped so there is a little twist in the assembly. Shouldn't take much to straighten it up though.
The photo shows the cowl being fixed to the rest of the fuselage ..... had a bit of a 'scare' shortly afterwards!  Shocked
The cowl angles back into the fuselage at the sides, so when the glue dried I started sanding ... only to realise that the rings towards the rear of the cowl were almost sanded through!
A quick panic later and I glued a 1/32" ring to the inside of the cowl ... hopefully this will stop the cowl disintergrating  Undecided
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Re: DPC Sopwith Triplane - Kit Scale - Build
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« Reply #54 on: March 28, 2013, 10:10:43 PM »

Looking good, Russ!

Skyraider
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Don McLellan
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« Reply #55 on: March 28, 2013, 11:41:49 PM »

Another fantastic build thread Russ!!  Beautiful model.

Don
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Dave Crompton
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« Reply #56 on: March 29, 2013, 07:03:33 AM »

Hi Russ,

looking very good indeed. Do you think you will have it finished for Walsall on the 7th??
 
Cheers, Dave. Grin
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Russ Lister
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« Reply #57 on: March 29, 2013, 03:17:15 PM »

Dave,

Still in the balance if I have overcooked this for kit scale ..... if I keep it as kit scale then there is still an outside chance  Undecided
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Russ Lister
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« Reply #58 on: March 29, 2013, 03:21:54 PM »

Not at my workshop over Easter, so I decided to have a complete 'lash together' of all the bits I've done so far.

I tried a new method for me of doing the cockpit surround .... I've cut it out of mount board used for watercolour paintings.
I've had to soak it with glue to keep it together so sanding is a bit slow .... could look OK with a bit more shaping.

Missing this weekend building probably will put paid to a finish for Walsall next week  Sad
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Re: DPC Sopwith Triplane - Kit Scale - Build
Re: DPC Sopwith Triplane - Kit Scale - Build
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billdennis747
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« Reply #59 on: March 29, 2013, 03:34:25 PM »

For the cockpit surround, consider using fine silicone fuel tubing eg from Mike Woodhouse. Slit it and run it around the cockpit edge.
Bill
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« Reply #60 on: March 29, 2013, 03:36:59 PM »

PS it's looking really nice, but I still think that peg position could be a killer.
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Russ Lister
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« Reply #61 on: March 29, 2013, 03:39:35 PM »

Thanks Bill ... I have used silicon tube and electrical wire insulation before, but it was a case of wanting to do it there and then so I could progress but having nothing suitable to hand.
I don't know how I manage to combine slow building with impatience!
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Russ Lister
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« Reply #62 on: March 29, 2013, 03:41:50 PM »

PS it's looking really nice, but I still think that peg position could be a killer.

Yes, another constraint of kit scale that I'm not too sure of  Undecided
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billdennis747
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« Reply #63 on: March 29, 2013, 03:51:23 PM »

I think I would accept maybe losing a point or two on static in a competition you don't want to win, in return for having a model that flies well. Although if it flies well you might win anyway! This rule needs changing - it's perverse.
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Russ Lister
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« Reply #64 on: March 29, 2013, 04:24:11 PM »

I must admit that just 'giving a good account of myself' comes before the desire to win so even though I don't mind losing points, having to watch the constraints in a class that is intended to avoid them does seem a little odd.
The fact that these constraints create a model that is less likely to make the jump to open scale only compounds this for me. I have had it in my mind to make this model something that can sit between the two classes, to see if kit scale can be used as a stepping stone to open  .... not sure if it can using one model?
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billdennis747
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« Reply #65 on: March 29, 2013, 04:59:12 PM »

There is no reason why the triplane could not acquit itself well in open. I fly outdoors but indoor is the same as far as competition goes. If your model flies at all and qualifies, you beat half the entry. If it flies well, you rise to the top five. Then you find yourself alongside Knight, Crossley et al and things get harder. But before you get to that point, flying is everything. Terry Manley once told me that the mistake people make in contests is to try and 'build' a winner, with piles of detail, rather than concentrating on flying performance, and it's true.
A study of the open static scoring system will quickly show that some things - outline shapes, craftsmanship, complexity are important while others - colour accuracy - are not. To make the triplane competitive you would check the outlines, throw a few ribs in, then separate ailerons, elevators etc. And move the peg! But for that reason, you can't do well at both with the same model.
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« Reply #66 on: March 29, 2013, 05:09:47 PM »

Looking very cool Russ!


The fact that these constraints create a model that is less likely to make the jump to open scale only compounds this for me.

I agree. Which is why I'm putting moveable elevators and rudder on my Chippie  Cool
I'd much rather that separate control surfaces/trim tabs etc were 'points neutral'. It's true that complexity is added if you NEED them to be competitive a la the open classes but trying to trim a vintage kit model designed for outdoors without trim tabs or moveable surfaces is bonkers. Neither easy for beginners nor does it point you in the direction of the open classes. It's not in the spirit of a beginners class to my mind, more like purism.

Rant over, sorry.... proceed.
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Monz
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« Reply #67 on: March 29, 2013, 06:18:08 PM »

Not to derail Russ' thread any further, but I think everyone is missing the point as pointed out by one of the Impington members during Andy's talk:

Build your models to have fun. Fly your models to have fun. Enter competitions to have fun. That is what it's all about, or supposed to be...

It's the camaraderie of flying together that should be deciding whether or not people enter, not where your motor peg is or if your control surfaces are hinged. If you want to enter KS, but feel your model needs a few tweaks to make it fly better and give you more enjoyment, then do it. Nobody wants to win KS anyway, so essentially there's nothing to lose. Is there?

Open class... Look at the progression this way: You get a simpler, less detailed model to fly well, then you progress to a more complicated, less detailed model to fly well, then you get a simple more detailed model to fly well all the while increasing your building AND flying skill level to where you can get a complicated well detailed model to fly well. But you're not going to get the latter to fly well if you haven't learnt how to get the simple model as described in KS rules to fly well by learning the basics first...

The KS class needs some fine tuning, but it's hardly perverse or purism...
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Monz
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« Reply #68 on: March 29, 2013, 06:22:36 PM »

Russ, great looking tripe.

Do what you want so that when it flies it makes you happy!
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« Reply #69 on: March 29, 2013, 06:51:12 PM »

I don't think trim (acetate) tabs are penalised are they?  - they may see your model stamped upon though  Grin

John, why does your chippie need moveable elevators and rudder?  the tail feathers are made from balsa, a rub and a tweak sees them deflected to trim anyhow?

Neither perverse or purism, just make the choice when you select the kit, or by loosing the points on the tweaks you make, isn't that agonising part of the "fun"?

Back to Russ's build.......it's looking excellent Russ, whatever route you Decide to take.  What is best is seeing your build coming on so nicely so quickly, I've not seen your builds come on this quick since I've been hanging around this forum.. I hope you find the momentum to push on to the finish line.....

Andrew
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Russ Lister
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« Reply #70 on: March 29, 2013, 06:55:22 PM »

Thanks Monique.

People have made an effort to create these classes so the last thing I want to do is criticise.
You are never going to please everyone, but sometimes the rules can be nudged about for the better I think.
From a positive view, I like the open scale rules ... basically every thing you put into a model, flying or static, is rewarded. In open you are not bound to follow any instructions, plans, construction methods etc.
The better it is built (albeit in this case against the actual aircraft) and the better the model flies, the better it does.

I suppose things vary with a person's own particular 'mindset' .... mine is that I want to get as close a replica as possible to fly well. As such I would rather start by building something with as much detail etc. as possible and then hopefully get it flying. Building a guaranteed flyer does not do it for me quite so much if too much is sacrificed re. fidelity.

Don't worry about derailing this thread .... I have a history of wandering threads!
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Russ Lister
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« Reply #71 on: March 29, 2013, 07:13:26 PM »

Thanks Andrew .... it does worry me that I have several models that have stalled at precisely this stage, but I am hoping to be more settled in my building now.

I agree about choice of kit .... there must be a suitable kit for anyone's particular 'poison'? Trouble is, from my own approach, I would not want to buy a sophisticated kit and then finish it with coloured tissue.
I would rather a paint finish just be regarded the same as the dope (technically paint?) used on coloured tissue. That would be my first 'tweak' 
This is the wrangle I am having now with the Sopwith ... 'to paint or not to paint?'
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skyraider
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« Reply #72 on: March 29, 2013, 10:35:26 PM »

Russ,
   You can go either way. The real Prototype Sopwith was CDL with burnished metal panels and cowling. But what ever you think is best
will still make for a very nice model. Great job!!

Skyraider
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billdennis747
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« Reply #73 on: March 30, 2013, 03:49:47 AM »

Monique, I never said the KS class was perverse. I think it is pretty well spot on. However, given that the aim of the class is to get these things to fly, and that better propellors are allowed, it would seem a good idea to exempt the moving of the peg from the blanket 'no changes permissible' as well. It doesn't bother me; I would move the peg anyway, but some would be reluctant so to do. My use of the word 'perverse' infers that a specific rule for the peg exists but of course it doesn't, but I am struggling to think of a better word. Anyone can use a wire extension but I'd rather see 'motor peg' added to 'propeller and wheels'.

As I have said several times, I would hope people will build what they want, with whatever changes they want. The irony is that shifting the peg forward in that triplane will result in far more flying points than any deduction on static.

Just thought of a better, albeit hyphenated, word. How about counter-productive? So that final sentence would be 'The rule could be adjusted to exempt motor pegs, along with propellers and wheels because at the moment it might be counter-productive to the aims of the class.'

I am looking forward to seeing what actually happens this year. Personally I hope to see a wide variety of models. I will settle for qualifying.
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billdennis747
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« Reply #74 on: March 30, 2013, 04:18:38 AM »

You know what, after consuming my breakfast egg, I think I will withdraw all my comments on changing the rule to exempt moving motor pegs. The rules really are spot on. All changes will be penalised but some of those changes will be rewarded with flying points. It will all even out - your choice.

I think i could have built a YHWM in the time spent generating all this persiflage.
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