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Author Topic: Small rugged HLG?  (Read 2760 times)
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KevinB
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« on: January 14, 2009, 11:25:58 AM »

Hi All

First post and asking questions already.

I am looking for recommendations for a small wingspan (12" Max) HLG with all wood construction. I would prefer a plan, but if there are some kits then I would look at them as well. Not looking for any world breaking performance but it should be rugged / solid so kids can throw it around and it will not be trashed too soon.

Any suggestion would be welcome

Cheer

Kevin
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High Point
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« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2009, 03:16:23 PM »

Hi Kevin, try this site: FREE CONTROL LINE & FF PLANS
I built the Hang 10 and it flies great.

Curtis
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KevinB
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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2009, 03:30:43 AM »

Hi

Thanks for the link. I will look later when I get a chance.

Cheers

Kevin
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packardpursuit
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« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2009, 02:14:16 PM »

May I suggest the old Jetco Thermic 18, which has 1/2 span of 6.4"? I have the kit plans and would gladly share. I bet I made a new one every two weeks or so , when I was a mere lad. I broke, repaired, burned , or lost (oss) every one of them! Built a few of them just a few months back. And they fly great. As I remember, a rather easy first venture into modeling. The kit cost 35 cents in 1960. Later, when I learned that a plans built model was way cheaper, I generally shied away from kits.
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Chuck Glider
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« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2009, 05:13:19 PM »

You can see the vintage lines of the Jetco Thermic 18 here: http://www.tmrcsailplanes.com/images/jetthermic18.jpg

To my "modern" eyes, the wings, stab and fin are on backwards and the moment arm is SHORT! Grin

I agree with the first suggestion of Hang 10 and would add that John Buskell had a nice simple 12" HLG, that I just can't find the link to. If you can stretch to 13in span, then I'd recommend Andrew Hewitt's Baby Jazz from Mike Chapman's site (the site itself is a must read if you're starting out, in particular the How to Build and Launching sections):
http://f4bscale.worldonline.co.uk/babyjazz.htm

Otherwise, I understand that a good kit is the Mini Flash from Campbell Custom kits available from Peck Polymers, which is 11.5" span.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2009, 06:10:55 PM by Chuck Glider » Logged
High Point
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« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2009, 12:03:22 PM »

Here is my new Hang 10 that I have pretty much finished; lost one just like it last week. I built mine as a CLG.

Curtis
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Black Arrow
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« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2009, 07:05:19 PM »

I built three gliders of the Pupchuck design from kits about 15 years ago and I still have them. They flew well without a great deal of adjustment. Simple dihedral design of about the size you are looking for. Unfortunately, I have no idea if they are still available.
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StevieB
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« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2009, 05:15:52 AM »

Here's the plan for John Buskell's 12" HLG mentioned by Chuck Glider. I think this was originally designed as an indoor glider but I used this as the basis for my current 12" outdoor catapult glider which is a nice flier and has done well in contests.

I would recommend increasing the dihedral slightly but my model is built with the wing as shown and flies OK.

Steve
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glidermaster
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« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2009, 01:16:06 PM »

Reading this and seeing the plan for my 12" model took me back a few years!

A while back I produced some very simple kits of this model, and of the 50 or so I sent out to various people, most were built and flown successfully. I also built a batch of 10 that I took down to a special event put on in the 747 assembly hangar at Boeing in Everett, Washington State.

Steve is right, the prototype was an indoor model, built in 1978, and won a contest it's first day out. The first one built by other than me was by Daniel and Mike Gaster; Mike was 1955 World champ in FAI Power, Daniel is his son, who was 8 at the time - their version flew great.

I seem to remember my first one weighed about 10 or 11 grams, but others up to 16 gms have flown just fine.
John
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StevieB
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« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2009, 07:08:09 AM »

Hi John,

I can confirm that a slightly overweight version will fly well. My CLG version was built with glass boom (offcut from an old A1 boom), rubbish wood and a DT and as a result weighed about 16g. It's first good performance was in a howling gale at the Nats (40mph gusts) where it handled the wind very well. I had to fly-off for 2nd place but a bad launch meant Mark Benns relegated me to 3rd place. More recently I managed to win the Oxford Gala Champagne Fly-off in lift-less conditions, the main benefit being an incredible launch height due to the thin section and small span. My version has a slightly altered (less swept back) tailplane shape as I fitted a pop-up stab DT and a square fin which is moved slightly forward to allow the stab to pop-up.

In flat calm conditions I struggle to get mine to turn after transition and the glide circle remains very wide. This is probably due to me messing around with the fin shape while not altering dihedral.

When I first saw the original design it just look right to me which is why I used it as the basis for a CLG. My experiences have proved that this is an excellent model and mine would probably have turned out better if I'd not altered it!

Steve
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Chuck Glider
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« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2009, 05:53:10 PM »

Hi StevieB. Yes, that is indeed the John Buskell plan I was thinking of! Glidermaster, you have the force...

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glidermaster
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« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2009, 04:21:39 PM »

Steve,
I'm totally chuffed you have had success with my design, and thanks for the compliments (Chuck, too).

I did a few developments of the design, inevitably with my stepped airfoil (same plan otherwise). The prototype would get about 50 secs tops indoors (hand launch). The later thicker wing, stepped version was about 10 secs better and quite a few grams heavier. I had a head to head with Phil Ball with it in Cardington, where I topped out at 63 secs - he bested me by several seconds - using a non-stepped model, of course.
The rest of the guys stood by and let us go at it!
John
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StevieB
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« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2009, 06:37:39 AM »

Hi John,

I wish I had got more involved with indoor HLG flying at Cardington but unfortunately I was a couple of decades too late for the big contests. The 12" Indoor HLG class seems to have died out now with 12" ICLG becoming popular and more recent HLG flying has only seen the larger "unlimited" style indoor gliders. My feeble attempts at indoor HLG flying in Cardington (with a balsa/depron Supersweep 22) ended in disaster with smashed models on the walls and girders and me failing to get close to even 60 seconds. How you chaps managed the durations you did in the "narrow" space available has always amazed me. The 12" class may well have been a better place for me to start with the models being a little easier to keep between the walls but the fact that no-one else seemed to be flying them put paid to that.

Considering Cardington is only about 20 miles from my house I should have got involved more but official BMFA contests have now moved away from this venue to lower ceiling hangers although I believe that some meetings are still held here. Maybe I should build an unmodified version of your design to fly if Cardington is available again this year.

Steve
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PeeTee
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« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2009, 10:46:27 AM »

Steve has forgotten that the last time he (and I) flew at Cardington, a couple of years ago, we both ended up losing models. How do you lose models indoors I hear you ask?, Well, mine flew out of sight and is perching on one of the girders a 100 ft or so up. I had another go the same way, but luckily it was retrieved using Bob Bailey's steering balloon. I think Steve's model got stuck behing some netting used to catch bits of the deteriorating roof. They were both 12" CLGs. Hazardous fun!

The Cardington Airship sheds are both listed buildings (can't be demolished or significantly modified). One is used as a sound stage for the film industry, and is where the latest Batman film was made (on one occasion I parked next to the Gotham City SWAT Team van!). The other is virtually derelict, but is used from time to time to repair/refurbish airships. It will be restored as and when the owners receive planning permission to build a housing estate on the adjacent land. However given the current financial crisis I'm not holding my breath!

Peter T
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Yardbird
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« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2009, 04:40:17 PM »

Kevin, please allow me to post my first post in your thread Wink

I am just finishing a sweet little 1930's style competition HLG that I can highly recommend, so far Lips sealed (still building it). It is plan #3 from a series of '8' articles titled "Fundamentals of Model Airplane Building" scanned from "Universal Model Airplane News"

-link: Competition Glider.

The fuse is 1/4" light balsa, 1/8" wings, 1/16" feathers. Should be sturdy with a few coats of spray on Flecto Diamond finish. I have cut out all the pieces and will be profiling the airfoil, then gluing it up and finishing it later today (I hope to post a small build log). Like I said, haven't seen one fly, but I think it will be a great flyer, and durable. The span is a bit better than you were requesting @ 15 1/8". Look for my log for a flight report...
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StevieB
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« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2009, 07:07:04 AM »

Hi Peter,

I remember it well. My model was lost on it's first comp flight after a few very promising trimmers. I must have pulled back an extra inch or so on the rubber for some extra height and the model transition and "flopped" onto the top (vertical) edge of the tarpaulin right up in the roof under the walkway. This must have been about 150ft up and only a brave sole would venture up there in my opinion. The glider rocked back and forth for what felt like an eternity but was probably a fraction of a second before tipping over the top and sliding all of 10ft down the wrong side of the tarpaulin. You could actually see the model on the sheeting from underneath! As well as Peter's model's getting hung up, Mick Page also lost a CLG on the same sheeting but his flew in the open end of it. Mick tried a retrieval from a lower walkway using a fishing pole but could not reach. That was a bad day for lost models!

Back to small rugged models......

Yardbird, please keep us posted on your build.

Steve
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