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Author Topic: OS .10 Trainer  (Read 1732 times)
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flyingagin
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« on: May 04, 2013, 09:47:29 PM »

Like some one else said on here recently, it has been real dead around here. Well people posting will liven it up a bit. I have been rather guilty of just lurking Because I felt I really did not have any thing to contribute. Well here is my part to add to this site.

I have been off work for the past 2 and 1//2 weeks from surgery. Seeing through the slits of my fat eyelids was no longer an option. Yesterday the eye doc cleared me to go back to work this Monday. I drive for a living these days and had to have a written clearance.

So I have been working on one plane or another off and on. Got some rib templates made for 2 different CL planes and rib templates for a new wing for my RC funny wing plane. And even made the ribs for it. Only left my DNA on the ribs maybe 6 times. Simply could not tell the template from the rib stock and way to stupid (and bored) to wait.

So I have templates rib templates made for a scratch build stunter of my own design. 12x50 inch wing.

But what I want to show you is the little trainer plane I Started on 2 days ago.
I have not flown a CL since sometime in the early 90s and thus feel the need to for a trainer that I am willing to loose.
I intend to blaspheme and put a 2.4 ghz radio on the trainer and the 50 inch stunter for throttle. Not real sure I can stay on my feet anymore trying to fly CL.

I was digging around on the shelve of a closet and found some forgotten parts, 2 stabilizers, one that was for twin engine RC plane and pretty decent size and the other come off an old slope glider and much smaller.
 
http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a504/kep51d/Control%20Line%20OS%2010%20Trainner/IMG_2423_zps0f32f2d2.jpg?t=1367698639

I like to re purpose things and after the light bulb came on in my head.

So what I have is the big stab is the wing for my little trainer. It was 8x20" so I added 2.5 inch tips to it for a 25 " wing. That gives me 200 square inches. Seems kind of right to me for a .10. The little stab is the stab. I used only stock I had on hand.

One fuse doubler (inside one) is epoxied on. And the engine bearers epoxied in, they are just spruce, and the fuse doublers are 1/8 lite ply. But I think that will be enough to hold that little motor. The fuse is 1/4 light balsa. The wing (old stab) is 1/4 inch stock that was framed up then sheeted with 1/16 sheet balsa. plenty strong for the wight. So the wing is is a 3/8 flate plate foil. But this is a trainer and dang near free so far.

I am real close to a major stop point now as I am out of building stuff. Used the last of my epoxy. And since I lost so much time from a pay check I can't buy more supplies till the end of the month. But I do what I can with what I have till then.

There are other projects I can on work some till then. So next month should see activity on several fronts.

Now I have no clue where around here I can fly the CLs when they are built. I will cross that bridge later.

Ken

http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a504/kep51d/Control%20Line%20OS%2010%20Trainner/IMG_2424_zps112f8592.jpg?t=1367698753

http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a504/kep51d/Control%20Line%20OS%2010%20Trainner/IMG_2427_zpsf9beec95.jpg?t=1367699248

http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a504/kep51d/Control%20Line%20OS%2010%20Trainner/IMG_2428_zpscf4e3604.jpg?t=1367699299

[imghttp://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a504/kep51d/Control%20Line%20OS%2010%20Trainner/IMG_2429_zps8046a611.jpg?t=1367699345]http://[/img]

http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a504/kep51d/Control%20Line%20OS%2010%20Trainner/IMG_2430_zps4552b37e.jpg?t=1367699393

http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a504/kep51d/Control%20Line%20OS%2010%20Trainner/IMG_2432_zps1608e28e.jpg?t=1367699433
OS .10 Trainer
OS .10 Trainer
OS .10 Trainer
OS .10 Trainer
OS .10 Trainer
OS .10 Trainer
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flyingagin
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« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2013, 10:40:02 AM »

Went back to work, so all my projects slowed down. But I did get some down on this lttle guy.

Bell crank mount plates (1/8" light ply) have been added on both side of the wing. They butt up flush with the fuse (inboard edge), mounting on the inside wing. Bell crank and elebator control horn mounted.

Made my lead out guide. 2 brass tubes epoxied to a length of light ply. I will mount it with two screws thru 2 slots so as to have an adjustable leadout guide.

Put light spackling on the wing to fair in the bell crank mount plates and wing tips.

I have to buy a piece of piano wire to bend up some landing gear struts. I think 3/32" might be about right. Will have to get a pair of small wheels, maybe 1.5"?

I am thinking I will make 2 struts (opposite sides) and use nylon gear straps to hold them on. And have the top go halve into a brass tube  that goes thru the fuse. Hard to explain but when I make the gear I will post a picture.

Ken

I found these on Brodak. http://brodak.com/control-line-parts/landing-gear/jr-lightning-stre...
« Last Edit: May 12, 2013, 12:07:57 PM by flyingagin » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2013, 08:39:30 PM »

I started covering, I used some realy old off brand cote. So not a great job, but it will do. I pulled a dumb dumb and started with the iron to hot for this brand of cote, but I lowered the temp and the covering improved.
The stab is just placed in the fuse, not yet glued.

Ken

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« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2013, 09:23:44 AM »

Very nice FA!  I too was thinking of putting some 2.4 gear on a CL ship to provide throttle.  Fun for when I didn't have anyone to help and I didn't feel like making a stooge.  2.4 is so small and light now I think it'd be cool to be able to walk to your handle, throttle up and fly as long as you felt like it and then throttle down and land.  Maybe even trying out some electric......
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« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2013, 06:12:10 AM »

I have some pictures of handles with 2.4 mounted on top. Slick Will find them and post

Ken
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« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2013, 08:43:34 PM »

I found the link for the landing gear struts above does not work so here it is again
http://brodak.com/control-line-parts/landing-gear/jr-lightning-streak-landing-gear.html
I ordered it and the lead outs today.
Now I have to order the 2.4 gear transmitter and receiver here
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__15141__Hobby_King_GT_2_2_4Ghz_2Ch_Tx_Rx_USA_Warehouse_.html
rx only wighs 5 grams
Will cut the bottom half off of tx and mount to top of control handle

I am thinking this flight battery
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__24218__Turnigy_nano_tech_180mAh_2S_25C_Lipo_Pack_E_flite_micro_series_compatible_USA_Warehouse_.html
It is only 180ma but wighs a mere 11.5 grams. I use to fly small gliders with only a 250ma nicad. Had plenty of flighttime

And this servo for throttle
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__36731__Power_HD_Servo_9g_1_5kg_0_11sec_USA_Warehouse_.html
9 grams
That  is a total of 25.5 grams. Under an ounce, .9 ounces.

I have to go to the local hardware store and buy the stuff to make the handle and the get some spectra fishing line.

Ken






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« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2013, 09:25:30 PM »

I am going to do something like this for the handle. But have the front (the line part) interchangeable for different line sets. I will just use a single line that loops through the handle front and thus 2 ends at the plane. It will be a hard point handle front end(s)
 
Ken
 
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« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2013, 08:14:57 AM »

I flew throttle set ups when I was young with a 3 line J Robert handle and bell crank. worked ok, And added that extra dimension of control, but also a lot of  extra line drag and wight on the inboard side.

So this is kind of a throw back to that, but also a big step forward  by getting rid of the extra line.

Sorry I did not mean to imply that the control handle pictured was mine. I found the pictures of that handle on another site and decided to file it future reference. I was just trying to show some thing of how I intend to make my handle. Again sorry for the confusion, I should have stated it was just a picture that I was going to emulate to a degree.

I apologize to any one I confused.

Ken
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« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2013, 09:29:16 AM »

I used paint to show that I am going to make the front part of the handle removable. Quick change by using a uper and lower 1/4 20 stud and wing nuts along with a keying pin (so you can't put the lines on upside down) . That way one handle but indevidual line holders for each plane. Also at the end of fly I can just wrap the lines around the line holder for storage.

Ken

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« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2013, 09:02:24 PM »

My landing gear struts and lead out cable came to day, but they will keep till the weekend. I am just to beat after work.

Also this morning before work I ordered the transmitter and battery I linked to above. It should be here friday. For the throttle servo I am going to use a Futaba s133.

I made some drawings of the handle construction, but they are more scribble than anything else. But when I build it I will post.

More this weekend.

Ken
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« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2013, 09:16:38 PM »

I Test mounted the landing gear struts today. I still need to buy wheels.
I also epoxied  the wing and stab in.
That is all for today.
The adjustable lead out guide still needs to be mounted, and the lead out cable made up.
Now that the wing is epoxied in I can cover it.
This weekend I will install the radio if my shipment arrives in time.
At that point the plane itself is done I think.
Then it is charge ahead on the 2.4 ghz handle.

Ken
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« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2013, 11:14:53 PM »

The wing and stab are epoxied on now.
Still waiting for the radio.

Ken 
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« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2013, 12:10:09 PM »

All covering done. The red is some real old off brand (CRAP) stuff, A little screaming at it and it is an ok but not great cover job.

Next complete the controls.

Ken
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« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2013, 11:00:13 PM »

I got a little more work done on the plane today.

I had to shift the landing gear struts slightly as the out board strut was hitting the muffler and it also sat a bit low. So now the gear clears the muffler, and sits taller.
The wheel axle holes were bigger than the wire struts, so a cut a piece of brass tubing (from a clunk tank fitting) and sleeved it over the axle. Perfect fit for the wheels.
 
The other landing gear change I made was to add 2 brass sleeves into the fuse where the top bend plugs into the fuse. The struts were twisting back and forth. Just not tight enough fit into the sides of the fuse. So I cut (to the width of the fuse) another piece  of the tube I used for the wheels and inserted the top bend into it. And to make that stronger that tubing piece is sleeved inside the next size up tube from it. The gear is now very solid.
 
The other accomplishment was making up the lead out cables. The cable ends wrap around a eyelet and into a little brass crimp tube. I then crimp the tube real hard. One more thing I did to make absolutely certain there could not be any slippage, was to tightly bend the left over end back over the crimp tube, and wrapped it with some bare copper wire and the solder it. The soldering is only on the outside of the crimp tube.  I did the same thing at the bell crank except there are no eyelets.
 
The lead outs are of unequal lengths. No possibility of the lines hanging on each other. The center on the lines will be offset equally. The picture fails to clearly show it but each lead out is in a separate brass guide tube. The pencils show the difference in lead out cable lengths at neutral.
 
I forgot to buy 2/56 threaded ball links, so I can’t do the elevator push rod yet.
 
I am still waiting for the radio to arrive. SO there is not to much I can do with the 2.4 ghz handle build nor can I install the planes radio gear.
 
SO I am now dead in the water.
 
Ken
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« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2013, 09:12:51 PM »

I got a good start on the handle today. Other than the transmitter part I got a fair amount dome in just maybe 2 or 3 hours.

I can't do the transmitter part yet. Still waiting for it.

I think it should go in a separate thread.   In General Discussion see A 2.4 GHZ Transmitter Control Line Handle

Ken
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« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2013, 09:13:05 AM »

I installed the pushrod. A small hollow carbon fiber push rod with a little 2/56 all thread attached to each end. I used some Kevlar ½ flying line to wrap the 2/56 rods real tight to the carbon rod and the coated the end assemblies with some epoxy. I am using a swivel ball link at the bell crank and a snap ball link at the elevator control rod. ZERO play in the controls and I do mean ZERO!

Ken
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« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2013, 09:14:22 AM »

My radio arrived so this afternoon I played with it. I opened up the TX to install a compatible battery connector a standard Futaba female connector. Plugged in the life battery and both LEDs lit. Next I plugged in the servo, the binding plug and then I screwed up big time. The TX manual does have the RX specs. I smoked the RX. The LED no longer lights and it has a distink smoked smell now, oh well live and learn.
 
I have found the RX separately on the HK web site and that does have the specs. Turns out the RX is only rated to 6V and the life battery is 6.6v.
So I will now add this UBEC in front of the battery, even more critical as I will be using a LIPO battery 7.4v
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__33297__TURNIGY_3A_UBEC_w_Noise_Reduction_USA_Warehouse_.html
 
So a new RX and UBEC are on order.

Ken
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« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2013, 09:15:01 AM »

I still have to install the radio system and tank to complete the plane itself. Not a big deal (I think) (I hope).

Now if I just don't smoke anything else. JEEZE. As long as I have flown RC I never smoked anything.

Even though I smoked he RX I can go ahead and start installing the radio. It just won’t work till the new RX and UBEC come in.

The UBEC only adds another 7.5 grams, so I am still under 1.5 ounces.

Ken
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« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2013, 05:35:42 PM »

I have been working on the radio and tank installation.
 
The tank is a 1 ounce clunk.  There is a square of ¼” rc foam between it and the fuse. It is secured with 2 Velcro straps. It is actually a very secure attachment to the plane. It is all plumbed up. Being on the inboard side of the engine It may richen out a bit in flight. We will see.
 
The rest of my build time and by far the biggest chunk of time was the radio installation. The throttle servo is right behind the engine and uses a short straight piece of small diameter piano wire straight to the throttle arm. The servo is not covered over, but I might do so if I can figure an easy way to do so. A plastic blister might do the trick real nice if I can find on the correct size. I  Might be able to mold one with a hot air gun. I have never tried to form plastic before.
 
The rest of the radio is going into a box on the bottom of the outside wing up against the fuse. I only have the battery and the rx (I toasted yesterday), The UBEC will also go in this box. There is a pad of ¼”     rc foam for the radio parts to lay on and will likewise be on the hatch to secure the parts.  The servo and battery plugs sit high than the box cover so I cut a relief hole for them. I will see l if I can put a plastic bluster over the hole.
 
I have not yet decided if I am going to install a power switch or just plug and unplug the battery cable into the UBEC.
 
I have to cover the radio box to match the plane and I think I will just paint the servo mounts.
 
Also on the radio box cover I need to reinforce the corner with some fiber glass. It is just balsa.
 
One other note. The connector on the battery has to be changed out. I need to put a servo cable and a standard 2s balance connector on it. The local hobby shop cares the 2s balance leads but are out of stock at this time. I will also have to invest in a charge sack seeing as this is a LIPO battery.
 
On a side note, some of the old covering I used is already starting to peel. So I am going to have to address that issue.
 
Ken
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« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2013, 11:26:22 PM »

Ok I moved the tank to the other side It just barely fits behind the engine. It was a piece of cake to do, although I did have to move the screws that hold the Velcro back a bit.
 
And I got the throttle servo moved. I had to put a double bend in the push rod to get it to clear.
 
The UBEC and new RX arrived. I set the jumper for 5 volts and hooked everything up after binding the unit. I had to use one of my LIFE batteries from a rc plane temporarily as the Li Po was not charged. Fact is I either got a dead battery or I wired something wrong adding the needed connectors. I had to replace the original connector wit a JST- XH and a Futaba male connector. Well  After the wiring my charger would not go into Li Po mode, so either something is wrong or I really need to study up on the charger more.
 
But with the big LIFE battery everything works. So I still have another hurdle to resolve.
 
I did find this battery
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__36955__Turnigy_nano_tech_260mah_2S_35_70C_Lipo_Pack_USA_Warehouse_.html
It has the JST-XH balance lead just the wrong discharge plug. I can easily resolve that.
So again the radio weight goes up. I think now to 1.5 ounces. Sure would like to run a smaller servo. Just don’t think the gears would survive the vibration of a glow engine. I think it might be worth exploring though. I will definitely build more CLs with 2.4. and would love to top out at about 1 ounce for the radio.
 
The UBEC will not fit in the Space I have behind the RX. I think I will mount it outside on the inboard side of the plane just forward of the bell crank. It will run a lot cooler mounted outside in the airflow and on the inboard side it will be out of most of the exhaust barf.

Ken 
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« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2013, 08:50:28 PM »

I re made the radio box so every thing but the servo is in it. I put a clear plastic window in it so I can see the LEDs when powered on.

For the last 2 weeks I have been trying to maiden this thing.

Last week I had fuel tank problems and a bad plug, no spares in that size. I rebuilt the tank bending the brass tube at 90 degrees to clear the back of motor better. I also bought a new plug.

I did a test run on the patio.

Then this past Saturday it was way to windy.

So I am hoping to this next Saturday.

Ken


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« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2013, 01:04:34 PM »

 Smiley On the ground; When does the Barfing start, Sad but Maiden successful
On the ground; When does the Barfing start, but Maiden successful. Smiley

Got the test flight in today. I was out by myself, flying buddy did not show. So it was a good chance to test the stooge. Worked like a champ. Perfect releases. The restraining line slipped off smooth as silk.

Had some problems with throttle rod not being adjusted properly. I was able to adjust that with the few tools I had with me, i.e. needle nose pliers. My 20 + year old igniter (nicad) died, but I used my panel supply by the 12v starter battery to light the plug.

I failed to hydrate properly before leaving the house, just coffee, had not drank a drop of water. I was sweating like a pig and dripping by the time I got my lines out and set up. heart rate and respiration up to much. To stubborn to slow down and rest awhile.

First 2 or three attempts to take off ended up not enough concrete runway area and ran into the grass at the end and just sat there. So I kept changing my angles in relation to the available concrete till I had enough run room. I was trying to stand in such a position that I would not wit the Light pole that was there when I came around. Also I had to avoid the concrete parking blocks. With out a helper it was just trial and error. And the most important thing I did not want to hit was my own car!!!!!!

Own the the 3rd or 4rth try I got airborne. Was almost surprised, but I quickly back peddled to insure enough room before coming around.

Now the actual flight report.

#2 The airplane yawed outwards like crazy on take off rolls, increasing the take off roll.
After the first lap I noticed I had significant line tension, much more than I expected for such a small plane. It was yawed out more than needed in level flight. Remedy reduce the engine offset and the move lead out guide forward.

#3 At full throttle the airplane was hunting up and down, maybe 5' up and down excursions. Manageable, but uncomfortable. At around half throttle the hunting almost completely stopped. So that is were I spent most of my flight time.

#4 I counted my lap times with the one thousand and one, one thousand and two method, and at 1/2 throttle I was getting 8 second laps. At full song I was counting about 6 second laps.

#5 At full song and a maybe 3 or 4 minutes into the flight I explored the control response with some full up elevator. Slow and no were near enough elevator. I will move the elevator ball link in all the way.

#6 When I could tell the that I was just about out of fuel. I went to full throttle and waited. cut out about two laps later. Ran out of up elevator on the glide down so landing was a bit nose down. No damage.

now #1 I was not properly prepared for physically for this little adventure. insufficient hydration, over heated before I even got the engine started. Wearing my back brace helped with my back but also was even hotter.
I started to get dizzy pretty quick, but stuck it out. As soon as the plane was on the ground so was I. Went to my knees, and then onto my back. The world was spinning, I was real nauseous and just hoping I could manage roll to my side if I started barfing. I was actually a little scared at that point that I would throw up and be unable to clear my breathing. My wife has informed me I will never be out like that by myself again. She will go next time, incase a flying buddy does not show She can at least call 911.

Biggest mistake was trying this with no else there.

But you know what It was fun. I will try again. This was my first CL flight in about 20 years.  Grin Grin

Ken
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« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2014, 07:50:53 PM »

Sorry I didn't get back to check on your progress.  Great thread Ken!
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flyingagin
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« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2014, 08:47:45 PM »

Thanks John. It was a fun project and I learned a lot that I have applied to my present CL Build (I build both CL and RC).

For CL I have a RingMaster Bi-Plane full fuse variant that I designed and am still building. Or correction will get back to later this month (I hope). It will also have 2.4 GHZ throttle.
For Rc I am restoring and making much more scale a 1928 Great Lakes Trainer 2A (small tail), that was in hideous shape. Rodents had nested it the fuse bottom and it was rotted out. I think I might make it a 1933 or so with a round engine. It is 1/5 scale and power will be a 1.20 four stroke.

2 surgeries and several small procedures on my back (this year) since I started the bi-plane. And then homelessness 2 months ago. Found friends to live with but that as not worked out, so we are forced to move again. This time the person we are moving in with has just as much at stake as we do. As much to loose and as much to gain, so I think it will be fine this time.

And I will have a one car garage to use for a shop. The 2 women also want the exercise equipment out there and a small sofa. So the garage should be a popular place for us all.

So later this month I hope to be building again.

Here are some pictures of both planes, and one of me post op after having C5,6,7 fused.

Ken
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"As for Me and My House, We Will Serve the Lord"
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flyingagin
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« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2014, 09:20:50 PM »

I could not post any more pics so one more post. Even though this is a CL section on the site and my thread is CL I just wanted to share both current projects. So a few more pics of the GL T2A.

Both projects have a long ways to go. well maybe not so much the CL ringmaster.
I have been build both at the same time. And will once again as soon as our home situation is resolved.
We (wife and I) have not been with out a roof for even one night, just our own place. We are currently getting a place ready for us. A ton of work. But I think it will be stable this time.

The build threads are on different sites than this but here are the links.

Cl Ringmaster Bi-Plane Variant
http://www.brotherhoodofthering.info/mbbs22/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1560&posts=431&start=1
and
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/control-lines-231/11585751-ringmaster-bi-plane.html

The GL T2A is locate @
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2128364
Also
http://www.stunthangarrc.com/index.php?topic=60.0
And on RC Universe anther gentleman stated a thread on a GL T rebuild
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/golden-age-vintage-antique-rc-196/6984687-restoring-old-great-lakes-2t-1a-biplane.html
And we decided that I shuold just continue where he left off  so at post #56
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/golden-age-vintage-antique-rc-196/6984687-restoring-old-great-lakes-2t-1a-biplane-3.html#post11734685


Once settled I may start two more fast build projects, one RC and one CL.

I forgot to mention that during this period the wife and I were also hit by a red light runner that put us int the hospital, totaled the car and cost me my job and that ended up leaving us homeless 2 months ago. I had the 3 disk in my neck fused 2 weeks later. Looking at more.

Been one rough year. But I think it will be OK. That is why the hiatus in building.

Now trying to get SS disability as it has become rather obvious my working days are over.

I did learn how recently to steam and bend wood strips and laminate them

Ken



Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: OS .10 Trainer
Re: OS .10 Trainer
Re: OS .10 Trainer
Re: OS .10 Trainer
Re: OS .10 Trainer
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"As for Me and My House, We Will Serve the Lord"
Joshua 24:15
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