Logo
Builders' Plan Gallery  |  Hip Pocket Web Site  |  Contact Forum Admin  |  Contact Global Moderator
August 07, 2020, 01:43:07 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with email, password and session length
 
Home Help Search Login Register
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Curtiss Robin 'Lady Rolph' BUILD  (Read 5675 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pete Fardell
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 150
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 5,765


Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2013, 09:04:38 AM »

Thanks George, I'll get onto it!
Logged
Mark Braunlich
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 78
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 1,089




Ignore
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2013, 12:32:28 PM »

This book might be of help but it's selling new for $69.99 so you might see if your local library can find one through inter-library-loan.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Curtiss Robin 'Lady Rolph' BUILD
Logged

Mark
Pete Fardell
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 150
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 5,765


Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2013, 03:52:39 PM »

Thanks Mark. I had come across it, but was put off by the price. I like the library idea though and that's a better picture than I've seen of the cover. What colour does the wing look to you on that painting?
EDIT: Have just checked Amazon and Abebooks  where there are some much cheaper used copies. About £8 inc. shipping. Probably worth getting.
Logged
Mark Braunlich
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 78
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 1,089




Ignore
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2013, 09:29:44 PM »

I'd say the wings and tail look gold which makes sense as aluminum(silver) and bronze(gold) are among the lightest weight of pigmented paints/dopes.

The famous American racing pilot Roscoe Turner's two racers were doped gold and silver and when asked why he responded that those were the lightest weight colored dopes.  Maroon and gold would certainly make a striking scheme if it could be proved authentic.
Logged

Mark
Clay
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 16
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 163

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2013, 10:46:01 PM »

Berry Bros. colors might narrow it down?  Pretty prevalent back in the day.  Flight might pre-date?

http://www.adastron.com/lockheed/altair/berry.jpg
Curtiss Robin 'Lady Rolph' BUILD
Logged

Visit Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome.
www.oldrhinebeck.org

Attend our annual Cole & Rita Palen Annual Memorial Free Flight Meet.
WW1 Mass Launch, Boxy Bipe Mass Launch, Unlimited Mass Launch and more...
No AMA...No FAC...just fun!!!
See website for event details as they come available.
Indoorflyer
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 20
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 1,253



Ignore
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2013, 11:28:17 PM »

Here's an interesting commemorative postal image, courtesy of the San Diego Air & Space Museum Archives, posted on flickr.com.  You can download higher res versions directly from their archive.  (no known copyright restrictions)
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Curtiss Robin 'Lady Rolph' BUILD
Logged
Pete Fardell
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 150
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 5,765


Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2013, 08:25:39 AM »

Thanks! I'm looking quite good for a dark maroon fus with gold/bronze wings and tail. I'd seen that commemorative cover and emailed the San Diego museum. They were very good but couldn't give me any more colour info. However they suggested I contacted the artist to see if he could help. I've done that and await his respose. He's the same talented bloke who painted the picture of the aircraft being resupplied, and is called John Sarsfield. Some other very nice aviation paintings on his website. Hopefully the Bobbi Trout biog might give me more clues. I did think about emailing the artist who did the cover for that too- another very talented chap, called George Akimoto- but sadly he died a few years ago.
Logged
Dave Andreski
Titanium Member
*******

Kudos: 82
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 3,052




Ignore
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2013, 08:56:40 AM »

I think I remember reading that the flying surfaces were 'ochre/ocher' colored. If this were so, it could explain why the surfaces would appear 'goldish' in various photos.

Dave
Logged

Aspire to inspire before you expire.
Pete Fardell
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 150
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 5,765


Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2013, 09:01:50 AM »

That makes sense. Any hope of you remembering where you might have read it?
Logged
Dave Andreski
Titanium Member
*******

Kudos: 82
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 3,052




Ignore
« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2013, 09:11:59 AM »

Pete,
Sorry, no. I'll go back and do another search for 'Lady Rolph' colors.
Dave
Logged

Aspire to inspire before you expire.
Dave Andreski
Titanium Member
*******

Kudos: 82
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 3,052




Ignore
« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2013, 10:22:21 AM »

Pete,
I'm thinking that I probably read something 'out of context' while searching for the color info.
I'm sure your research will turn up good, viable info.
Dave
Logged

Aspire to inspire before you expire.
Bredehoft
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 56
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 1,032


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2013, 10:49:33 AM »

THis is not much for color, but it is a HUGE photo that would be good for documentation.  It is hard to tell if there is a color variation betweent he taila nd fuse.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/8091728121/sizes/o/in/photostream/

--george
Logged

billdennis747
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 63
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 4,137



Ignore
« Reply #37 on: May 08, 2013, 12:29:28 PM »

I am following this "colour hunt" with interest.
Were any other aircraft painted ochre? Seems a very odd colour.
More importantly, is there a photo confirming wing markings?
Remember you can back up the photos with pictures of other similar radial aircraft to fill in shape gaps.
Logged
Monz
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 152
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 1,231



Ignore
« Reply #38 on: May 08, 2013, 02:16:27 PM »

Pete, I did a little experiment in Photoshop.

Took the pic of the aircraft and desaturated it, then found a gold coloured car, desaturated it and added some 'noise' and contrast to kinda match the old pic. Looking at the tones of the shadows and highlights on both, it could well have been gold paint used on the aircraft. But still, not conclusive.

Bill, the gap on biplane wings looking odd is normally a result of the focal length the pic was taken at. Longer the focal length the more background perspective is compressed (looks bigger/closer).

Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Curtiss Robin 'Lady Rolph' BUILD
Re: Curtiss Robin 'Lady Rolph' BUILD
Logged
Pete Fardell
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 150
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 5,765


Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #39 on: May 08, 2013, 04:27:16 PM »

Thanks Monique, for that experiment. I like your lateral thinking! And thanks George for the huge version of the photo. It was definitely a two-tone scheme though, as a look at the newsreel footage (link in my first post) will confirm. The rudder has the serial in dark characters, so must have been at least light enough for that to show up.
Bill, that newsreel footage is very useful for things such as wing lettering. I've recently realised that by using the control and print-screen keys on my keyboard it's possible to get quite a decent still 'photo' from any YouTube vid or similar. Here are a couple of examples. As the whole point of the film was to show the air to air re-fuelling there are a lot of shots of the topside, which are often the very shots that are hard to get. (UNDER wing lettering might be a taller order though.)
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Curtiss Robin 'Lady Rolph' BUILD
Re: Curtiss Robin 'Lady Rolph' BUILD
Logged
billdennis747
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 63
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 4,137



Ignore
« Reply #40 on: May 09, 2013, 03:01:15 AM »

Sounds like it´s coming together. If the upper wing reg. is standard, you would be justified in suggesting the lower would be too, and use another Robin photo to show it. Can you summarise the colour proof you have so far?
To put things in perspective, Brian Taylor, whose RC models have won or placed at many Nationals, almost invariably had the lousiest markings documentation. He won´t mind me saying that because he won´t read it.
Remember, in a contest, if it´s the right shape and flies well, with some good details, you could almost paint it pink for all it matters
Logged
Bredehoft
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 56
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 1,032


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #41 on: May 09, 2013, 10:25:22 AM »

Maroon with Gold sounds good to me!

I have curiousities about the registration number.  By the way, it is standard for US aircraft, so it should be on the lower opposite wing.  My question comes to the number itself - NR749M.  If you notice in that screen capture from the video, it appears the letters are a different shade than the numbers.

In the US at that time, "N" was used as the country code, and a second letter was used to designate usage, etc.  I am wondering if this aircraft ALWAYS had the NR number?  R is "restricted" ("X" is experimental, "C" is commercial).  Occasionally, you will see raceplanes that started as NC- registered, progressed to NX- and then possible to NR-.  Is it possible that this started life as a commercial aircraft (NC749M) that was required to change its registration when it was being used for the endurance attempt (NR749M)?  This might explain the apparent difference is shaping on the NR letters compared to the 74 numbers in that image.

Or maybe it is jsut a quirk of the film and the light.

--george



Logged

Pete Fardell
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 150
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 5,765


Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #42 on: May 09, 2013, 11:36:34 AM »

I think it is probably just a quirk of the old film- it's quite flickery and patchy.
Colour evidence so far then:
Fuselage: 'dark maroon' based on the written words of Bobbi Trout herself who states this as the colour of the aircraft.
Wings and tail: Don't know, but could be gold, based on the painting on the front of the Bobbi Trout biography, the fact that the film footage shows them to be a lot lighter than the fuselage and the fact that they look quite metallic on the photos (but a bit dark to be silver).
Lettering: A good idea of shape and position from the movie stills, probably can say was similar on the opposite underwing, don't know colour of letters- too light to be black. Maybe maroon as fuselage?


Thanks to all concerned so far...
Logged
Russ Lister
Free Flight Modeller .... sub 250g!
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 73
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 4,414


Russ Lister



Ignore
« Reply #43 on: May 09, 2013, 12:30:14 PM »

I've found a couple of examples that might give some sort of 'spectrum'?

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1329/1431962848_ea2851fa8f_z.jpg

http://www.jitterbuzz.com/manreal/Curtiss_Robin_03.jpg

From the descriptions given my own choice would be the gold colour of the top photo with the dark maroon of the 'Little Butch' below ..... and insist that these were the true colours!  Wink

http://www.eaa231.org/Museum/Monocoupe/Monocoupe01.jpg
Curtiss Robin 'Lady Rolph' BUILD
Curtiss Robin 'Lady Rolph' BUILD
Curtiss Robin 'Lady Rolph' BUILD
Logged
billdennis747
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 63
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 4,137



Ignore
« Reply #44 on: May 09, 2013, 01:36:16 PM »

I´m sorry but the wings and tail of the top Robin look yellow to me - like many Robins. I have several pictures of the lower Robin and they are definitely yellow.
Logged
billdennis747
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 63
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 4,137



Ignore
« Reply #45 on: May 09, 2013, 02:07:17 PM »

This piece from 1929  shows the writer confusing gold and yellow

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/16522874
Logged
Russ Lister
Free Flight Modeller .... sub 250g!
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 73
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 4,414


Russ Lister



Ignore
« Reply #46 on: May 09, 2013, 03:21:19 PM »

Definitely yellow, I agree Bill .... I didn't think we were talking a true metallic gold though?
Logged
Mark Braunlich
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 78
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 1,089




Ignore
« Reply #47 on: May 10, 2013, 12:21:09 PM »

I think a metalic gold may be possible.  Attached are then and now photos of Matty Laird's 1930 Solution racer.  This black and gold color scheme were the house colors for Laird.  This gold possibly lighter/brighter than what may have been on the LADY ROLPH.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Curtiss Robin 'Lady Rolph' BUILD
Re: Curtiss Robin 'Lady Rolph' BUILD
Logged

Mark
Pete Fardell
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 150
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 5,765


Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #48 on: May 18, 2013, 05:28:34 PM »

Thanks for all the above. Not much to add yet. I like the idea of metallic gold, but here is a reference I've found (thanks to Clay's interesting Berryloid colour chart) which might make a bit more of a case for orange/yellow wings. This written section is talking about Stinson Junior monoplanes. which were contemporary with the Robin.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Curtiss Robin 'Lady Rolph' BUILD
« Last Edit: May 18, 2013, 05:48:39 PM by Pete Fardell » Logged
Andy Sephton
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 6
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 210




Ignore
« Reply #49 on: May 20, 2013, 11:01:42 AM »

Bill's quite right on his comments on colour. The K factor for colour is very low, so it hardly figures at all in the final score at our level. The message is don't get too hung up about it!
Logged

Too much thrust is never enough!
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
Print
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!