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Author Topic: Fantastik P-30 Build  (Read 7145 times)
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atesus
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« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2013, 03:50:26 AM »

Ah! This is one of those head slapping moments  Angry. The diagram in the pdf shows the force multiplier's long arm bent at a 90 deg angle. Had I have thought of that I wouldn't have needed the turnarounds which gave me a lot of trouble  Embarrassed. Thank you very much for the link. I may still be able to salvage my setup and get rid of those turnarounds!

Best,

--Ates
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OZPAF
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« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2013, 06:14:56 AM »

Well thats some trim flight Grin No wonder it won - great effort Ates. It flies very nicely.
John
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« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2013, 03:07:55 PM »

For another comparison point, my finished wing of 132 square inches is at 15.5 grams, covered with tissue over mylar.  This is probably about 2 grams heavier than I would like.  My last model of the same design had a RTF weight <42g.  I'm afraid this one might be a bit heavier.  My fuse should end up lighter than the last one, so we'll see.

6g uncovered seems crazy light--darn indoor builders!  You may have to ballast it up...

--Bill

Indeed I did. 6 grams of lead.  Smiley And I still might be slightly under.

Attaching a photo of how I shrunk the mylar - I used an indoor covering jig and clamped to wing to it using clothespins, then hit it with an iron.
It worked well.

I flew it on Saturday a bit - way too windy at around 12-15mph, but my kiddies were eager chasers.
I imagine it will fly well after getting the thrust angles correct.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
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Re: Fantastik P-30 Build
Re: Fantastik P-30 Build
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atesus
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« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2013, 02:25:47 AM »

And a couple glamour shots...
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« Reply #29 on: June 08, 2013, 05:55:59 PM »

hi Ateş,
Looks very nice.
Do not have an auto-rudder.

Selamlar Ateş abi,
Çok güzel duruyor . Eline sağlık. Otomatik rudder yokmu abi.

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« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2013, 07:38:07 PM »

I can see there's a lot thought, work and production expense in Clint's new Monarch P-30. Then I almost fell out of my chair when I saw the price!!

Otf'er
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« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2013, 05:56:04 PM »

Atesus,
I am a bit late to the party with this picture of the 'turnaround' on my tipping-wing Coupe but I thought it may be of some help.  The force needed to hold down a wing or tailplane is completely different from the force which should be applied to a timer (whether clockwork or viscous) therefore one needs two different strengths of rubber bands, or springs and and these are isolated so that one does not affect the other by wrapping the cord which joins them a time or two around a post.  If any of this is not clear please ask.

John
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« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2013, 06:33:11 PM »

I can see there's a lot thought, work and production expense in Clint's new Monarch P-30. Then I almost fell out of my chair when I saw the price!!

Otf'er

Me too!
Dave
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atesus
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« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2013, 06:54:39 PM »

hi Ateş,
Looks very nice.
Do not have an auto-rudder.

Selamlar Ateş abi,
Çok güzel duruyor . Eline sağlık. Otomatik rudder yokmu abi.
Thanks Emil. I couldn't sort out the auto-rudder in the rush of the contest. It was still OK without it so I flew without it. I'll work on it when I'm under less time pressure and have it working properly next time I fly the model.

Sagol Emil. Yarisma gunu zaman darligindan auto-rudder ile ucus ayarlarini yapamadim. Ucus karakteristigi auto-rudder'siz da iyiydi, onsuz uctum. Zaman daha genis oldugu bir ara dogru calisir hale getirip bundan sonraki ucuslari auto-rudder ile yapacagim.
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« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2013, 07:01:30 PM »

I can see there's a lot thought, work and production expense in Clint's new Monarch P-30. Then I almost fell out of my chair when I saw the price!!

Otf'er

Me too!
Dave
Dunno.  90 is not really that bad in todays dollar.  The model itself is really sharp and still a KIT.  The killer (for me) is the USPS shipping.  Ordering from ATALAR will be less of a financial burden to Deutschland, and I might be able to talk my neighbor into bringing a few models back from their yearly trip home Wink.
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atesus
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« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2013, 07:03:39 PM »

Atesus,
I am a bit late to the party with this picture of the 'turnaround' on my tipping-wing Coupe but I thought it may be of some help.  The force needed to hold down a wing or tailplane is completely different from the force which should be applied to a timer (whether clockwork or viscous) therefore one needs two different strengths of rubber bands, or springs and and these are isolated so that one does not affect the other by wrapping the cord which joins them a time or two around a post.  If any of this is not clear please ask.

John
John, thank you. This is such a simple solution that's eluded me. I guess I was thinking that it had to be more involved than that! Yesterday I played with two new Badge timers I got (one classic, the other lite). It looks like between the two I'll be able to have a setup where I can directly route the stab line to the time. That is, it looks like the pull that operates the timer will be sufficient to reliably keep the stab down. I may add a peg midway to wrap the line around once like you did, to isolate the two sides, if need be. Thanks for the help and the picture.    
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« Reply #36 on: July 01, 2013, 07:00:32 PM »

Could you give me the source for your badge timers that you are trying out. I'm trying to find a classic 6 min badge timer for a P-30 that I'm building.  Bob Munson "Classic" or a BL-7 Badge timers are difficult to locate.
Thank you.
Bob
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atesus
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« Reply #37 on: July 01, 2013, 07:34:14 PM »

I got my timers from my FF club. However I found this on  [MMMFreeFlight] Yahoo group, posted in September, 2011. I hope it helps.

“Bob Munson is the maker of Badge and Button Viscous timers.
He sells them direct with some reduction in price for clubs, etc to buy.
His contact info is:
1615 Manchester Lane, NW, Washington, DC 20011
Phone: 202 882 7204 or cell: 202 997 3809
Leave message and he will return call with price and availability.”



While searching for a supplier myself, I also found this unit at Stevensaero:

http://www.stevensaero.com/StevensAero-Free-Flight-Badge-Button-DT-de-thermalizer-timer-p-18967.html

A2Z Corp also lists them but I'm not sure about the availability:

http://www.a2zcorp.us/store/Category.asp?Cguid=%7BB5037F69-172A-478D-9558-98BF65286304%7D&Category=ModelSupplies:Timers

By the way, I ended up installing a rubber burner type electronic timer on the P-30.
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Re: Fantastik P-30 Build
Re: Fantastik P-30 Build
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« Reply #38 on: July 01, 2013, 07:41:30 PM »

Another source is-
http://starlink-flitetech.com/SLFTTimers.php
I don't own any of those.
Dave
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atesus
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« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2014, 10:23:19 PM »

With the addition of the electronic timer and after many repairs, the weight of the Fantastik had gone up to 55g (airframe only!). So I stripped the Coverlite off and recovered the model with good old Esaki tissue before taking it down to IWC 2014. In the process, it lost about 4g of weight. It was a very windy day on Sunday 2/9 and nobody was flying. Then winds seemed to ease off a bit in the early afternoon and we got a chance to fly. I didn't get a decent chance to trim the newly covered model -after a couple short test hops (during which I lost my electronic timer and had to beg for a timer but that's another story!) I put in my first two official flights. Then, with 9 minutes to go in the contest, I started winding the motor for my last flight and the motor broke as I was attaching the prop Angry. Oh well Roll Eyes. I love using O-rings with a reverse-S hook but when transferring the O-ring from the winder to the prop, I realized that -to get a good grip on the end-, I end up pulling the wound motor out by an inch or so, which makes for a quite dangerous situation with the motor is wound close to its limit and the blast tube off. I'll switch to a Crockett hook and see how I work with that.

I have been thinking of rebuilding the fuse with 3/32" sq stock instead of the 3 mm sq provided in the kit so the damage done by the blown motor presented a good excuse to build a new fuselage. Trim flights this morning were very promising. Weight is down to 46g now (airframe) and there are still some more opportunities for further weight reduction.  
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Re: Fantastik P-30 Build
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DerekMc
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« Reply #40 on: February 23, 2014, 10:42:46 PM »

Nice! Launch it into a thermal and it won't know its 46 grams!
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« Reply #41 on: February 23, 2014, 10:49:26 PM »

I Certainly like your report. My advice is ALWAYS USE THE DT. I lost my Majestic P-30 and several other models when I just didn't  have my act together. Use it or loose it as the experts say.
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« Reply #42 on: October 09, 2017, 03:52:33 AM »

I have acquired a Fantastick P30 kit and see it has an autorudder system. Does this improve the model's flight characteristics greatly or can it be put in the  not necessary basket? It looks to slowly adjust the rudder setting as the motor tension lessens....is this correct.
Any comments for or against appreciated. Undecided Undecided
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« Reply #43 on: October 09, 2017, 09:09:47 PM »

All that I can tell you is that there are a LOT of P30s being flown without auto-rudder.
Lots and lots. Well, actually, every one that I've ever seen.
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« Reply #44 on: October 09, 2017, 10:32:46 PM »

There was a guy down in Florida some years ago that built one with all the auto stuff.  Wing wiggler, auto rudder, auto stab.  Managed to keep the weight down pretty well.  Got a lot of ink in some of the newsletters for the technical innovation, but none for winning anything.
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« Reply #45 on: October 09, 2017, 11:06:31 PM »

flydean1,
      That guy was Thurman Bowls from New Smyrna Beach, Fl.  He gave away/sold ALL of his modeling stuff at the
King Orange International Contest last year Palm Bay.  He and his wife are now out somewhere gold prospecting.
      Now that is a worthwhile hobby?      Alan Mkitarian  (now in N.J. but Cape Canaveral Fl. for the Winter)
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« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2017, 12:17:55 AM »

Thanks Dan,
I have never seen it being used either. To me there are simpler more basic ways of controlling the direction of flight.
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atesus
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« Reply #47 on: October 10, 2017, 01:45:54 AM »

I've flown the Fantastik either way, sometimes on purpose, sometime not so much, with similar results Cheesy. If you get things right, AR gives a steep initial climb (60 degrees or so) with a nice transition to circling climb and gets good altitude. However I often had problems with getting it to behave consistently. If I recall correctly, you have to adjust the pull on the rudder such that the auto-rudder is released giving a slight right rudder around 800 turns. The fact that you have to keep track of the position of the rubber on the rear peg as well as maintain a constant pull on the rudder, which both have a big impact on the release point, was sometimes too much for me in the heat of a contest. Regardless, it's a great flying model and I enjoyed building and flying it.

Best,
--Ates
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« Reply #48 on: October 10, 2017, 05:48:39 AM »

Instead of AR, let me suggest VIT instead! My favourite all-round model is my old design, old-fashioned conventional airfoil and 4" constant wing width. Airfoiled fixed rudder to give right turn, but ample dihedral makes the initial climb safe - no tendency to spiral in. What makes the difference is the VIT. Without it, the model was difficult to launch and tended to make the first turn flat and banked, gaining little altitude during the power burst. VIT made all the difference. I fly my model with 6 strands of 1/8" rubber, using a torque meter to wind the motor to full. With VIT I can launch the model almost vertical and without bank, and it climbs the first 20 to 30 meters (60 to 90 feet) straight up, veers a bit to the right as speeds reduces, and at 4 seconds the VIT triggers turning the model into tight spiral climb. Thanks to the small prop that does not stall easily, the model is forgiving in launch attitude, even if launched to the left it will turn to right during the vertical burst and typically recover without a stall.

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« Reply #49 on: October 11, 2017, 03:09:17 AM »

Hi Tapio,

Can you explain a bit more what VIT is and how it is set up,

Cheers,
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