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Author Topic: hlg plans left or right wing?  (Read 26796 times)
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roxy2
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« on: June 04, 2013, 07:15:36 AM »

 ???Being new to tlg gliders i feel really stupid when it comes to reading plans. for instance take the 36" Turn-Up drawing by Tim Batiuk.
     It say's flies left to right so wash-in wedge is right wing and grip on left. So if I'm viewing from the rear does that make my left hand
     the left wing? Secondly the wash -in wedge in the right hand wing, does that act as a down elevator to cause the right wing to want to lift
     or am i just reading the drawing wrong? I feel really silly asking.
     
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flydean1
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« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2013, 08:15:56 AM »

Can't see the drawing, but standard aircraft naming convention views left/right as looking from the tail forward.  It is as if you were sitting in the cockpit of a fullsized airplane. Smiley  So looking from the rear, your left hand designates left wing, etc...
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jswain
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« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2013, 01:22:22 PM »

???Being new to tlg gliders i feel really stupid when it comes to reading plans. for instance take the 36" Turn-Up drawing by Tim Batiuk. It say's flies left to right so wash-in wedge is right wing and grip on left. So if I'm viewing from the rear does that make my left hand the left wing? Secondly the wash -in wedge in the right hand wing, does that act as a down elevator to cause the right wing to want to lift or am i just reading the drawing wrong? I feel really silly asking.    

your fine, some of this stuff is *not* intuitive.
With tlg's and assuming right handed, you will use your right hand to hold the models left wing tip.
As you noted, the wedge helps keep the model from spinning in to the right during glide phase by providing a bit of washin or lift to the right wing panel. The wedge also provides  bit of drag aiding in the right turn.  
An extra note for later, the CG is very important- do what ever plan says as it determines elevator decalage and high speed launch climb - grit your teeth and add the nose weight...it can be incrementally adjusted after the model is flying safely Shocked
take care, john.

ps - check out this nffs video dvd it was very helpful to me to "see" what  worked and see it again on rewind-
http://freeflight.org/Store/index.htm
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Re: hlg plans left or right wing?
« Last Edit: June 04, 2013, 01:43:51 PM by jswain » Logged
roxy2
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« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2013, 01:45:23 AM »

Thank u guys for your advise. I'm your typical type that loves building and spends more time doing that than actually flying mainly because
of lack of playing fields big enough so i definitely will check out that dvd .I need to contact someone who might be in my neighborhood
central Auckland that's into tlg gliders to give me some advise on launches.
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-John-
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« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2013, 11:06:51 PM »

No doubt it is very helpful to have a coach.
In getting started, you can test launch the glider strait ahead with a good solid push into a light breeze(conventional style launch). The model should not nose dive into the ground. It is better if it climbs a little and settles down into the right gliding turn. It is generally better to start with too much incidence rather than too little; especially for the initial discus style launches. The incidence really can help if the launch is off a little. Also(starting out), a full spin is not required for discus launch, just use your arm and body, and throw it. The general consensus is to have the arm level with the ground at release (and the wings also), combined with some nose up on the glider. The use of a peg could be beneficial if one has problems with release timing. When discus launching, give the glider a good healthy whip action and get it up there, altitude is life! Have fun.
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roxy2
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« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2013, 02:51:33 AM »

John i was also wondering what the idea of having a wash-in wedge does on the outer wing dihedral cut
for instance on the Lee Hines swee 30. As well as having the wash-in wedge on the right wing it shows
an offset cut of .19 inch instead of a 90% cut from the trailing edge. Huh Huh
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« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2013, 05:12:47 AM »

I think you'll find that the skewed dihedral breaks are to provide wash-out. Effective toe-out = wash-out, and toe-in = wash-in. What do I mean by toe-out, the distance from the wing centre line to dihedral break is greater at the LE than at the TE. Lee normally provides a dimension for this, typically 0.1" from memory.

Peter
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sweepettelee
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« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2013, 08:17:04 PM »

 Washin wedge on inside glide turn wing TE help keep wing up in tight turns, hoping to prevent spinning in.
 & toe out is SOP for most every HLG, TLG & CLG. Been so for a long time.

Peter is correct about the skewed dihedral joints.  It is something I came up with eons ago to add washout along with a bit of sanded washout.
What MUST be avoided is ANY tip washin.
Reason: we are trying to stop tip stalls, not assist their creation!
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Leeper
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« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2013, 11:26:38 PM »

roxy, also, the dihedral joint "splay" -or- "skew" should be included on both the left and right panels. It is only on the old indoor gliders that I've ever seen anything different. Personally, after I've cut all the joints for the wing panels, I like to place them(before glueing) back to back(mirror image) to see if the joints are cut the same. This helps improve the chances of not accidently building in more washout on one wing than the other. The guys have done very well at answering your questions. Lee's Swee 30 would be a good model to start with. The smaller TLG's seem to be easier to launch. Stan B. provides very nice materials with his kits if you care to order internationally.
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roxy2
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« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2013, 02:08:24 AM »

I've only been on this forum for a few weeks and you guys have helped me learn quite a bit in such a short time .
I very much appreciate your help.
John you mentioned Stan B does some nice kits, could u give me more information on that please.
 
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JohnOSullivan
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« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2013, 07:48:33 AM »

I think you'll find that the skewed dihedral breaks are to provide wash-out. Effective toe-out = wash-out, and toe-in = wash-in. What do I mean by toe-out, the distance from the wing centre line to dihedral break is greater at the LE than at the TE. Lee normally provides a dimension for this, typically 0.1" from memory.

Peter

Reminds me of when my Hi Tee was being processed at the 1960 Cranfield World Champs.
The processor asked me if I was aware that my centre panel trailing edges were 1/4" shorter than the leading edges.
This was not deliberate so I had to do a bit of quick thinking.  I told him that was my way of incorporating washout.
He was even more impressed than I was with the answer.
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John O'Sullivan
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« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2013, 08:11:39 AM »

Quote
He was even more impressed than I was with the answer.

You'd been kissing the Blarney Stone then Grin
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sweepettelee
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Simplicate & add more lightness. Keep sanding!



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« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2013, 01:29:00 PM »

John O & Peter: LOL...maybe John was not kissing that moldy stone, but just possibly a gentle touch?  Roll Eyes

Roxy2: google 'diskUSkid' to find jAn Langelius' website of TLG important specific info.
Some of the very best TLG plans are found there...even some of mine!  Cheesy
You will find Stan's latest catalog info and his email with SPECIFIC INFO on how to buy the very best small balsa glider kits and accessories.

Good luck & stay with the TLG hurling efforts!

Ciao,
Leeper, aka Sweepettelee  Smiley
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Leeper
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« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2013, 01:38:14 PM »

Don't laugh. My family lived in the village of Blarney when I was born, within sight of the Castle.
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John O'Sullivan
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roxy2
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« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2013, 04:56:23 PM »

I could do with one of those blarney stones at the moment but that is about to change now that i have advise
from you guys .
I built one of your sweetepee 28" gliders Lee and had some success with a few good flights on the field with
just launching it forward lightly. Then i decided to buck up the courage and try the tip launch without using
the full swing. I couldn't work out at the time why it wouldn't go from left to right, it would just go straight
off to the right. That is when i needed the blarney stone. One tends to get over excited when tip launching
seems to be going great then boom i knew as soon as i let go it was going to dive towards the ground. There
she blows i could see from a distance the fuselage splinter out in three directions. The wing and boom were
still in one piece. After seeking your guys knowledge i now know part of the reason, i had the washout wedge
on the left wing instead of the right and secondly no dihedral washout on either wings. So its a new build
apart from the tail and boom. And yes i love it tlg's.
   
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sweepettelee
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Simplicate & add more lightness. Keep sanding!



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« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2013, 05:18:12 PM »

HOLD ON THERE BUCKAROO!
Right handed TLG launch climbs to the LEFT, transitions, & GLIDES to
the RIGHT, with washin wedge on RIGHT wing TE, just outside dihedral joint.
There are training videos you need to study, IMO.
Is there ANYONE who know how to fly TLGs that you go observe & have coach you?
That sounds like it would clear up your troubles...
That is how I learned.  BTW, I do not do 360s anymore due to various reasons.
Just watch baseball relief pitchers who coil, unwind & WHAM! Release it!
NO FEAR is the key. Try to be smooth & fluid as you launch.


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Leeper
roxy2
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« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2013, 06:16:46 PM »

I would need to ask around but honestly all the information you guys have given me will make
a lot of difference from here on. Cheers Lee
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sweepettelee
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Simplicate & add more lightness. Keep sanding!



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« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2013, 06:57:24 PM »

I just noticed you are in NZ. Ask Paul Lagan, who live in Cheviot,
north of Christchurch. Or Dave Jackson. Yes, do check around.
Bet you could find Stan B's indoor record video on YouTube.
Do you know John Hart? In C'Church as well.
You have many options when it comes to skinning this TLG cat!

Leeper
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sweepettelee
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Simplicate & add more lightness. Keep sanding!



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« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2013, 07:03:54 PM »

I just recalled that there is a TLG specific topic section a few lines
below this HLG section.  Most are daily recent postings as TLG has only
been on the scene since 2006 or so.
Search there for 'How To do it' info.
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Leeper
roxy2
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« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2013, 11:33:11 PM »

I'm off to the hobby store to get a few more supplies for my new build. I don't really know those guys though
i have heard there names mentioned in the past , not as famous as you guys are.
I will try and get some info for tlg flyers in Auckland starting at the hobby store. 
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