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Author Topic: Biplane Racers - Reno Style  (Read 5824 times)
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THB
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« Reply #50 on: August 27, 2013, 10:39:28 PM »

The Sundancer has a long nose with heavy bits around it (cowl cheeks, spinner etc) so I've guessed I can make the tail feathers a bit more substantial than usual 1/16 square. I mean they won't have to be as light as on many rubber scale models due to managing the cg. I also enlarged them a little. They are not a bad size on the prototype - but its short-coupled and I think will need a little extra tail end guidance.

The wings have a cranked sort of dihedral - that makes the low wing in particular, need to be built longer so that it matches the front view and will have the struts at the right angle once it's assembled.

The Wings have been rough sanded and I'm just leaving stub spars so I can test fit them to the fuselage next. The spars can't go through the fuselage due to the HUGE snake of Super Sport that will be thrashing round in there once the race begins...

Nice work on the covering Dave - you can guess I'll prob use orange esaki  Cheesy

cheers
Tim
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Tim
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Bingo Fuel
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« Reply #51 on: August 28, 2013, 10:17:31 PM »

THB   It sure is looking good.  I've been following this thread with much interest.  I got to see the real Sundancer race in Cleveland,Ohio back in the 1980's  There was another racer of the same design that raced with it that was all white with 2-tone green trim.  I have photos of both so I will have to try and dig them up and get posted here.  They sure were beautiful racers.  I saw Sorceress race also. That airplane is now in the Museum in Washington at Dulles airport.  Keep up thee good work.  Bingo
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THB
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« Reply #52 on: August 29, 2013, 09:51:44 PM »

Hi Bingo - thanks for chiming in with such an interesting post. I you can find the pics, please post them here as you suggest. Must have been great to see these planes in the air. I have never seen a race or been to Reno - it would certainly be an experience. I'll get back to the build soon - it's been a busy week (which is good) but I'm looking forward to returning to the workshop also!
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Tim
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dputt7
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« Reply #53 on: August 30, 2013, 07:36:12 AM »

Hi
Bingo those photos would be good to see, are you a regular to Reno, it must be something to experiance.
Well I've been a bit slow this week but its taking shape now. Got it all stuck together and aligned. After I mounted the top wing I gave it a bit of a glide as a monoplane, fast and straight so when I mounted the lower wings I gave it another toss after adding a bit of nose weight( no prop) totally differant almost a bit of a float to the glide, I know it dosent proove anything but it was an interesting comparison. Next up I tackled the wing fillets, just a lot of cut paper and try, put on a Gordon Lightfoot album and got stuck in, just as well it was a double album  Shocked it took a while! 
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dputt7
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« Reply #54 on: August 30, 2013, 07:50:11 AM »

The struts are faired into the wing with a cuff that slides down over the fixing, so the easiest way to represent this was to mould them from .005" plastic after carving a simple plug. This way I could get them all looking the same. I wont fit the struts until after I paint it, that will save a bit of masking.
There are lots of photos of this aircraft in many stages of its life, from a simple 2 tone paint with no markings and no fillets or even spats to the full on paint job and streamlining so I'm pleased I didn't take any shortcuts though some of the signwriting will be a challenge. I hope to get some color on it in the next few days  Grin
regards Dave
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tross
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« Reply #55 on: August 30, 2013, 07:58:25 AM »

Dave,
It's really looking good now. Smiley
The next bit, where you put the color on is my favorite to watch you do!
Quote
John I wonder if we drew plans after we worked out the details and built the model whether any one would build them.

I would, if you do it. Or just save your notes and sketches and send them over.
You don't need anything fancy, scribbles on napkins works. Grin Cheesy Smiley
I'll document it for you. Cheesy

Tony

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Instructions: Step One...Assemble the pile of sticks shown in pic "A" to look like the model airplane shown in pic "B"........
dputt7
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« Reply #56 on: August 30, 2013, 08:10:31 AM »

Hi Tony
That sounds like a great idea, it would be good to see you take my rough design and develop it. What say we just wait and see if it flys first  Grin
regards Dave
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« Reply #57 on: August 30, 2013, 04:47:59 PM »

 Cheesy Looking very cute! Wink I too find that good music helps the construction process! I always interested in how the paint goes on. No good at myself!
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THB
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« Reply #58 on: August 31, 2013, 12:53:22 AM »

It was time to have a go at all the big wooden bits on this aeroplane (Sundancer). I'm not accustomed to working in wood sizes like this. So it has taken me much longer and delayed things a bit...

Having reached Ecuador and selected some timber of suitable size, grain and density, I then lashed the logs together KonTiki-style and made my way across the Pacific to Australia - proving by the way that it was possible for early aeromodellers here to have made model planes from balsa if they really wanted to.

Having blocked out the rough shapes of the cowl cheeks I began hollowing out the hulks with a stone axe as canoes have always been created in time of yore. Until Carla came out to the hobby room and said 'Why don't you use that Dremel tool'.
And there might have been a comma after Dremel.   Cheesy  
'The one you said you had to have for Christmas.'

So I did - and got the walls of the cheeks down to about 1mm thick - so that each cowl cheek now weighs about 0.5gram.

Anyway - that's why it's taken me so long... and why Dave is getting so far in front.

Tim Heyerdahl
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Tim
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sparkle
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« Reply #59 on: August 31, 2013, 03:03:10 AM »

 Grin nice work Tim. Shame yo  :)u had to go all the way to Equador. Sad  My sister lives there. She could have put a postage stamp on a couple of logs and sent them to you saving you a lot of trouble and time!,  Grin  Now you know for next time!
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Bingo Fuel
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« Reply #60 on: August 31, 2013, 12:10:17 PM »

Hi All,
  I found my pictures of Sundancer and it's twin which was called Cobra.  The problem is they are all on slides.  They were all taken in 1979,80 at Cleveland's Burke Lakefront airport which was the site of the races back then.  Sundancer is not orange in these years but white with red and orange trim.  I have very good pictures of these racers and a number of other Sport Biplane racers  but will have to work out how to scan the slides. I'll see what I can do.  I have only been to the Reno races once which was 1994 and there was a beautiful biplane racer that year that was painted like the black and yellow GeeBee Z flown by a woman.  I'll have to dig that up too.  Bingo
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« Reply #61 on: August 31, 2013, 05:20:24 PM »

THB,
   There was a good set of three views of Sundancer in Reed Kinert's 1974 air race annual by Dustin Carter drawn 3-74 but without cross sections.  You are doing pretty fantastic with the drawing you have. In 1975 the wheels were moved back a bit still using the same landing gear leg in the same position to improve ground handling.  Looks a bit different with the legs coming in to the forward part of the wheel pants but this could also get a tick of weight out of the nose. Bingo
  (oh I once made a raft of Pop-cicle sticks  and sailed the high seas using an electric fan and lots of extension cords for propulsion and just got a bad hair day)
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dputt7
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« Reply #62 on: September 01, 2013, 09:02:45 AM »

Hi
Tim, us mere mortals buy our balsa from the LHS just down the road, maybe thats what I'm doing wrong.
Got some paint on over the weekend.  My usual, Humbrol enamel thinned with Acrylic thinners. When I bought the yellow from the LHS they had a full range of Humbrol Acrylic, I was tempted to try it but every time I try something differant it dosen't work out, so its safer to stick with what you know.
The Yellow went on fine but it took forever to dry so to be sure I left it for about 30 hrs before I masked it up for the Red and as soon as that started to dry I carefully pulled off the masks and I was pleased not to lift off any of the Yellow with the tape. I know that gloss paint is heavier than matt but its only added 2grms and I can live with that. Now I just need to let it harden up before I add the markings.
Dave
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« Reply #63 on: September 01, 2013, 04:29:13 PM »

 Grin It's a very bright little plane!   Cheesy
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Bell Models
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« Reply #64 on: September 01, 2013, 07:19:44 PM »

Here's an Imperial Knight Twister I built. I kitted the airplane, but never flew it. No place to fly in Largo Florida. 15 1/2 in. span, weighs 26 grams.

John Bell
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« Reply #65 on: September 01, 2013, 11:33:21 PM »

dputt7,
What a knock out!!!! Zeowee!!! Cool Shocked

Tom
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THB
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« Reply #66 on: September 02, 2013, 09:27:07 AM »

No place to fly in Largo Florida. 15 1/2 in. span, weighs 26 grams.
John Bell
Hi John, We'll make room for you on the start line if you want to bring that Twister down to South Australia.  Smiley
At least you have a model built.
I was thinking back about the comments of William (orbiteer127) and how as long as you keep moving forward... do a bit at a time...
It's time to work out how to fit the wheels on. And I hope you work out how to scan those slides Bingo - I didn't know Sundancer had a twin.
I remember also that big spats can also sometimes work like rudders on a model, if they get knocked out of line in a landing it changes the trim.
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Tim
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« Reply #67 on: September 02, 2013, 03:27:38 PM »

THB and all,
   I will have to send off my slides to get them copied to a DVD.  I will copy most of my biplane racers slides.  I saw the BeLL Model subject race too which was flown by Don Fairbanks of Cincinnati, Ohio the Knight Twister.  Beautiful model Bell.  There was another beautuful Knight Twister that raced also.  Fantastic job on the two racers as far as I am concerned.  Keep going.  Jeeze I wish I could build and fly in this but Australia is a bit of a drive from the USA.. Bingo
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dputt7
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« Reply #68 on: September 03, 2013, 04:28:38 AM »

Hi Bingo
I was speaking to someone the other day that projected his slides onto the screen then photographed them with his digital camera, could be an easy option, Thanks for your support and interest.
Dave
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THB
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« Reply #69 on: September 03, 2013, 09:33:56 AM »

A little more progress. having forgotten about the U/C - I managed to do a work-around and fit a wire in horizontally. Then bend it to the right angles. I won't do that again. but it worked out ok.
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Tim
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« Reply #70 on: September 03, 2013, 09:52:05 AM »

Mainly I wanted to be sure everything was going to be 'square'. And there was a bit of twisting and dodgy carpentry (not shown) but hopefully when I put the fin on it will be pointing upwards at 90ish degrees and look ok. Now just some carving around the legs and spats before I work out how to put the wings on. In the old Comet days I think you just glued the root rib straight onto the tissue...  this is fun...

That Knight Twister looks great. cheers for now. Tim
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« Reply #71 on: September 03, 2013, 03:22:37 PM »

 Grin Looks straightish to me!  Smiley
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« Reply #72 on: September 03, 2013, 08:09:39 PM »

And that's one of my favorite parts of what you do Dave.
Looks great! Grin
I had to get the SkyQuest out Tim, but I think I see it.  Shocked
(see pic of Sky Quest)
 Grin Cheesy Smiley Cheesy Grin Cool Cheesy Grin Shocked Roll Eyes Grin

Tony

PS. It's gonna fly Dave.
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« Reply #73 on: September 03, 2013, 08:56:07 PM »

Hi all,
  I get the CD with my slides on it back on Friday so hang in there.  There are 27 pictures.   Bingo
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« Reply #74 on: September 04, 2013, 09:40:57 AM »

Hi
Tony I enjoy this part as well, but it can turnout badly very quick, trying to workout the best way to apply the white lettering.
     Bingo looking forward to your photos.
I couldn't find a suitable pilot in my supplies so I carved a foam one, not done to any high standard but just a representaion to fill the cockpit. A tinted face mask took care of any facial details and a good photo of the instrument panel finished off the interior. Tim you must be getting ready to cover, the weather is turning sour  Roll Eyes
regards Dave
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