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Author Topic: Design a New Outdoor Event Discussion  (Read 9178 times)
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Sundance12
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« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2008, 11:40:54 AM »

3. Built up covered wings covered on both sides, no top covers with the bottom open.

Sundance12
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DerekMc
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« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2008, 04:35:56 PM »

Hello,

For simplicities sake I would allow any type of covering. Looks like I have a bit of designing to do! It will be fun to see where it goes. As for a name, how about a "Hip Pocket Rocket"? A little long for a class name but it has a certain pizazz to it.

Now how big a loop do i get from a 20 in strip Smiley And how long should the fuselage be? Then there is the prop, a one bladed folder would be fun. What pitch and diameter. The mental gears are slowly starting to twirl!

Derek
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Sundance12
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« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2008, 04:48:33 PM »

Hi Derek;

The whole rubber is a 20 inch loop. 2 strands of 1/8th 20 inches long...

Hip Pocket Rocket it is. I like that..

Cheers

Sundance12

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« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2008, 07:29:01 PM »


The whole rubber is a 20 inch loop. 2 strands of 1/8th 20 inches long...


See there is the literalist in me. When I read 20" strand I think of a strand not a loop. We should change the rules so that it says loop then those goof balls like me would get it right! I am drawing up a preliminary design tonight, with tomorrow being my day off, I could have something built. We shall see.

Maxout, I'll race you to get the new design into the air! What a joke you will have three built before I have the prop carved!

Derek
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« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2008, 08:28:26 PM »

Well there you go, I was thinking 20" strand and a 10" loop! Oops, okay, so when do they have to be done and flying by? You guys are already thinking up plans and carving props, I'm still in P for Park! Make that S for Snowbound!

Doug
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« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2008, 11:08:49 PM »

I'll be drawing up plans for mine soon. Polymicro film anyone? Cool

And I'm still debating with myself about the proper size. Will probably settle on a 3x20 wing since that has worked well in the past. 19" hook-peg distance, 4" tail section, 50% stab, twin fins or course...yup, got it pretty nailed down. I'm guessing a 10" SBF will be a good prop for starters. With a finished weight of less than 5 grams, it should be capable of VTO or close to it even with that big prop.
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« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2008, 12:56:17 PM »

This is what we have so far:

Hip Pocket Rocket Postal

1. 20" strip of 1/8 rubber or equivalent (40" of 1/16)
2. Enclosed motor.
3. Built up covered wings limited to tissue or 1/4 mil mylar
4. Three rounds at 90 sec max.


5. One round must ROG or VTO (I say just trust people. Bad Karma for cheating)
6. Flyoff rounds are 90 seconds.
Tape on a penny for each flyoff as you make them: 1st Flyoff: 1 penny, 2nd flyoff=2 pennies, 3rd flyoff=3 pennies. Keep going till you drop.
7. Multiple entries allowed.


Dates for postal? Up to Sundance12. I would set the cutoff date at the end of 2008 so that we have the summer and fall flying season. That is purely selfish because my bigger flying fields are available in the fall.

Or we could do a number of rounds with round winners and a grand champion. Something like: 2 months to build and test. Round 1: May-June, Round 2: July-August, Round 3:September-October, Round 4(?)

I think that all entries must include a plan that can be put in the Plan Gallery. Then we can see what works and build new planes as necessary!

I like it! In fact I will donate a prize from my kit collection to whoever wins. I have quite a few scale kits that I can donate. Heck, I'll pay the shipping so somebody from North America better win!

How do we publicize the postal?

I would be willing to keep track of results if needed.

Derek (designer and soon to be builder of the HipRocket 1 Will it fly? We shall see!!!)
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« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2008, 03:35:03 PM »

Ok, sounds good. Now I gotta get some 1/4 mil mylar...

-Joshua, designer of the soon to be minimag
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« Reply #33 on: March 07, 2008, 05:26:54 PM »

What are "Flyoff Rounds"?

kevin
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« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2008, 07:11:54 PM »

What are "Flyoff Rounds"?

Good question! This is more information than you probably need. In many duration classes you have regular round and flyoff rounds. In the Hipocket rocket class, You fly three regular rounds to a 90 second max. That is you launch your plane for an official flight and it has to stay in the air for more than 90 seconds. If you do so you have made the "max". If you make three official 'max' flights then you are in the flyoff! An official flight is one that you say will count before you launch the plane. You cannot fly and then declare it official.

The flyoff rounds in many duration classes are extended maxes. The plane has to stay in the air longer. Each successive flyoff round requires a longer flight, usually 30 sec or a minute more per flyoff round. In P30, a popular rubber duration event each flyoff is thirty seconds longer. The first flyoff round is 150 sec., the second is 180 sec. You keep flying the flyoff rounds until you don't make one. When you 'drop' or don't make the max, you add up the time of all your flights and the one with the most time wins.

In the proposed Hip Pocket Rocket class it works a little different. You fly three 90 sec rounds no matter what. If all three of your regular rounds are maxes, with one of them rising off the ground or using vertical take off, then you get to fly a flyoff round. In this class the time is not extended (which usually needs larger fields) you add a penny as ballast then fly. If it makes the 90 sec max you get to fly in the second flyoff where you add another penny. If you make 90 sec. with two pennies then the third flyoff requires three pennies. Each flyoff round makes the plane heavier so the difficulty goes up.

Sorry if that is more than you needed to know, but i hope somebody might find it helpful.

Derek
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« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2008, 08:18:25 PM »

The HIPRocket 1 exists on paper! I had a productive day off drawing up the design. It will be a simple build. Everything is straight, the way I like it.

17" wingspan
3" chord
16" fuselage length
Sub rudder and 45% Stab
8" single folder to start (p/d of 1.2)
3 loops of 1/16" rubber, around 13" long for power. That comes out at slightly less than 40"
Final weight: ?

I have never built a small plane without a minimum weight requirement. My P-20s are at the minimum weight. O wait, I did build a 8 gram Peanut once. It will not be 5 grams like Maxouts!

I am cutting out ribs tonight.

Derek

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« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2008, 09:01:01 PM »

Hi Derek,
Not too much info. In fact, I'm guessing I'm not the only one that wondered.

An additional question. The penny can be mounted at the CG correct? Say beneath the fuselage? Or does it have to mounted in a specific place on the model like the nose?

Thanks,
Mooney
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« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2008, 09:10:05 PM »

Mooney, you can put the penny anywhere you want, but I would strongly suggest to put it at the CG Grin. I plan to tape mine to the top of the wing. If I ever make it to the flyoff that is!

Derek
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« Reply #38 on: March 07, 2008, 10:18:16 PM »

This sounds very interesting. I'm looking to draw up my first Embryo. Maybe I can make it work out for this.

Interesting ideas here. I like the way this event evolved and formed right here in the forum.

moon
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Sundance12
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« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2008, 01:18:58 AM »

Operational Order

Hip Pocket Rocket Postal Competition.

This contest will begin March 31 st 2008 and run through to October 31 2008.

1. 20" strip of 1/8 rubber or equivalent (40" of 1/16)
2. Enclosed motor.
3. Built up covered wings limited to tissue or 1/4 mil mylar
4. Three rounds at 90 sec max.
5. One round must ROG or VTO (I say just trust people. Bad Karma for cheating)
6. Flyoff rounds are 90 seconds.
Tape on a penny for each flyoff as you make them: 1st Flyoff: 1 penny, 2nd flyoff=2 pennies, 3rd flyoff=3 pennies. Keep going till you drop.
7. Multiple entries allowed.


Anyone who wants to participate in this Postal Contest is welcome to participate. There are no entry requirements. However you must make your intent known through a posting in this forum. I will make a new topic for this event and it's activities. You are considered registered when you declare your entry, no data is required for registration but if you like you can outline your design if you like. Pictures and development are encouraged.

All participants are encouraged to design an airplane from the beginning using the specifications listed above.
There is no restriction to the number of airplanes you can use.

A tally and presentation will be made in the month of November 2008 of the results on this website. All times and data will be submitted in this forum. I will make a page that you can enter your data directly. The link for this will follow shortly. Results can be reported by email as well to [email protected]

Operating requirements

You fly three 90 sec rounds no matter what. If all three of your regular rounds are maxes, with one of them rising off the ground or using vertical take off, then you get to fly a flyoff round. In this class the time is not extended (which usually needs larger fields) you add a penny as ballast then fly. If it makes the 90 sec max you get to fly in the second flyoff where you add another penny. If you make 90 sec. with two pennies then the third flyoff requires three pennies. Each flyoff round makes the plane heavier so the difficulty goes up.

Prises are to be determined.

Please play fair and have fun.

Sundance12
« Last Edit: March 09, 2008, 01:23:11 AM by Sundance12 » Logged

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Sundance12
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« Reply #40 on: March 17, 2008, 03:23:59 PM »

So what happens if a flier flies say, 102 seconds, for a max of 90, do they get an automatic 90 or is the 12 extra seconds subtracted from the original 90 seconds that they surpassed ending up with a 78?

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« Reply #41 on: March 17, 2008, 05:13:15 PM »

Sundance

The watch stops at 90 seconds. How do you get 102?

Dan G.
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Sundance12
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« Reply #42 on: March 17, 2008, 06:50:39 PM »

Ok got you, and the clock stops at 90.

sigh...

grin

BF
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« Reply #43 on: March 18, 2008, 12:05:15 PM »

Sundance,

Anything over 90 sec. is a longer chase! Good if you want the exercise.

Derek
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« Reply #44 on: March 18, 2008, 12:06:24 PM »

A couple of questions.

First, any suggestions for a good airfoil shape out there? What gets used on the best new duration ships, or is this one of those "Depends" questions that I'm asking.

Second, what's a VTO?

Doug
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« Reply #45 on: March 18, 2008, 12:13:44 PM »

A couple of questions.

First, any suggestions for a good airfoil shape out there? What gets used on the best new duration ships, or is this one of those "Depends" questions that I'm asking.

Second, what's a VTO?

I'll let somebody else handle the airfoil question. VTO is an acronym for 'Vertical Take Off'. You set your fully wound airplane on it's tailfeathers (suitably built with contact points, usually on each end of the stab and on the rudder) and let her go. The plane flies straight up. Way cool!

Derek
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« Reply #46 on: March 18, 2008, 01:01:33 PM »

Thanks Derek, I figured it stood for vertical, but wasn't sure about the rest. On a single loop of 1/8" huh?!!!

Doug
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« Reply #47 on: March 18, 2008, 01:12:03 PM »

It doesn't HAVE to be vertical unless any rules mandated that the model must stand unsupported on 3 points as the original NFFS Nostalgia gas rules stated - a requirement long since dropped. It could be released at 45 degrees.. or whatever .... as long as sufficient points were in contact at the moment of release.
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« Reply #48 on: March 18, 2008, 01:36:49 PM »

Thanks Derek, I figured it stood for vertical, but wasn't sure about the rest. On a single loop of 1/8" huh?!!!

Sounds like a challenge to me! The available rubber is not much power so the planes will be very lite to VTO vertically. I'm sure somebody will pull it off, they might not win because it may not be the most efficient use of the available rubber. I'm looking forward to the different planes that come out of this.

Applehoney, are we going to see a Hip Pocket version of your TenSpot once you are feeling better?

Derek
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« Reply #49 on: March 18, 2008, 02:28:38 PM »

Derek, I'm feeling fine, thank you. As for the TenSpot variation .. I must admit I've had slight feelings of temptation but .. I haven't been to my workbench since I walked away from an almost complete 'Senator' some10 months ago, and still have little inclination to return .. seem to be a 'burn out' after some 60 years of building. Time will tell ....

Sorry about the subject digression, folks...
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