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Author Topic: Veron Nieuport 27....or?......or?........  (Read 709 times)
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bernienichols
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« on: September 24, 2013, 09:00:31 AM »

Having completely overshot my timetable for the Indoor Nats this year, and the kit scale model that I was going to enter is still in it's bones hanging up on the wall of the shed (that I laughingly call "The Workshop", and the domestic controller calls "jabba",) I thought I'd make an early start on next years projects and get my winter building schedule (see what i did there?) set out.

Soooooooo, What to build? Many hours spent browsing kit scale plans on this, and other websites has got me down to a short list of about 4......maybe 5....(it depends on my mood at the time). As a callow youth in the 50's I spent most of my paper round money on the folly that was (and maybe still is?) Keil Kraft Flying Scale. If ever there was a misnomer it's in those last two words. They never flew and they're not scale. But I digress. Whatever it is that I build for the kit scale event at Nottingham next year will have to be something that has a familiarity, it needs to be something that resonates, after all, I haven't built one of these things in over 50 years.

When I were but a lad, our local 'hobby' shop was an ironmongers who sold Keil Kraft kits and a few sundry modelling items. Cement, dope, tissue paste and so on. But the point here is that it was always Keil Kraft, I never saw a Veron kit until my return to the hobby in 2000, and my first visit to OW. However, browsing through the lists of Keil Kraft and Veron plans (whoever scanned them and made them available to all is a hero and has my undying gratitude), it seems to my older eyes that Veron has a, not better, let's say 'more interesting' product.
And the one that's caught my eye (or one of the 5 that has caught my eye) is the Nieuport 27. It was duly downloaded and after berating my recalcitrant printer severely , I managed to print out, on 6 sheets of A4, THE PLAN. Ok, it's all joined up and I've stared at it for hours, working out what goes where and how. Which bits look like they'll trap the unwary and so forth. It's raised some questions. #1, has anyone reading this, ever built this particular model? If so, perhaps you can answer one or two queries please?

The plan as printed out shows a small positive incidence on the upper wing, (when i find my protractor it'll probably read) maybe 1, maybe 1.5 degrees and the lower wing is much much more, say 5 degrees. does this sound right? i.e. the bottom wing stops flying before the top? and if so, is it enough? too much? just right? does it need to be adjustable?

The cabanes, which set the incidence shirley surely? are both the same length (as drawn) can this be right? the notes read.' make very accurately'. Hmmmmmmmm....

There is no downthrust shown, I plan to make provision for this, but do i need to make a big provision? There is no top view, so right side thrust is not indicated, and because there are no instructions, neither is there any help from Phil Smith. I've read the rules for indoor kit scale (now there's a first!) and they allow me make a better fist of the prop mount for winding etc, so can I assume that i can also make provisions for thrust angle changes? (I would anyway I suppose, and suffer any loss of points with fortitude)

Last question (for this first post anyway!) Because there is no front view, it doesn't show where the inter-plane struts fit. I can easily find this from 3-views of course, but does anyone know, say, which pair of ribs they affix to?

Oh yes, one final ask.....errr, two final asks. C.G. anyone got a firm view on this? or do I just keep adding nose weight until it stops stalling? and, I was planning on moving the rear rubber mount at least one bay west, might 2 bays be a better choice?

OK...one small very final one....Is there a better choice of model?  Roll Eyes

Thank you for your patience.

bernie
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Mark Braunlich
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« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2013, 11:57:53 AM »

Bernie,
The cabane struts, front and rear, are NOT the same length.  Very similar yes but the front are longer, hence the two side views of  the cabanes.  The cabanes are cemented/bound to the fuselage cross pieces A and B as shown in the front view of the cabane struts.   At the top ends, the cabanes are fixed to ribs R2.  You will note notches on the top of the R2 ribs to allow for the thickness of the binding thread.  The interplane struts would attach to rib R6.

Hope this helps.

Mark
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« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2013, 02:08:21 PM »

Bill Dennis built this model, there is a picture on this thread (page 2)

http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=13105.0

He might have some useful info....

Andrew
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bernienichols
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« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2013, 02:16:59 PM »

Mark.

Thanks for the response about the cabanes, I knew and understood that they should be different lengths, it was just that even after measuring them with an engineers rule, they showed no difference on the plan...well, if they are, it's only a few thou. But most of all, thanks for the rib # that the struts fix to. I assume that they fit virtually vertically (!) down to the corresponding rib on the lower wing?

Andrew

Thanks for the heads up on Bills build. I thought I remembered him mentioning it, but i couldn't find the thread.

onwards and upwards Smiley

bernie
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« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2013, 02:24:14 PM »

Hi Bernie
Richard Crossley did a good article on the Veron 27 in Aeromodeler and mine was similar to his. I replaced the wire cabane with spruce, made the rear struts a V as should be, and put the wing at 2 degrees. Moved the peg to behind the headrest. Mine had a separate cowling and yes, lots of downthrust. Nice model. Oh, I put a spar in the bottom wing because it will curl - I wasn't bothered about points.
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bernienichols
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« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2013, 02:52:43 PM »

Hello Bill

You're a star sir! Just the info I wanted, and the pic of your Nieuport (very nice!) helps no end. Thanks for the info and I shall try and track down that Aeromodeller with Mr Crossley's info.

I'd rather have a model that flies and miss out on any build points than vice versa!

Thanks Bill
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Bryanair
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« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2013, 06:00:44 AM »

Bernie

The Richard Crossley Aeromodeller article is in the March/April 2013 issue.

Bryan
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bernienichols
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« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2013, 05:48:23 AM »

Bernie

The Richard Crossley Aeromodeller article is in the March/April 2013 issue.

Bryan

Thanks Bryan, I'll borrow a copy from BML  Wink
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Yak 52
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« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2013, 08:07:43 AM »

Hey Bernie, check your email - fonts sent...

Does this mean we're going to get a Nieuport build thread?  Smiley
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bernienichols
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« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2013, 11:43:38 AM »

Errrrrr...... i'm not sure my 'skills' are worthy of a public airing! Maybe a pic or two if things don't fall apart too soon!

many thanks for the fonts Jon.
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Bernie Nichols UK - Will be missed by all that knew him.
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« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2013, 04:42:38 PM »

Errrrrr...... i'm not sure my 'skills' are worthy of a public airing!

That Mr Chairman, with the greatest respect sir, is rot  Grin Cool
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