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Author Topic: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal  (Read 158381 times)
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Mark Braunlich
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« Reply #50 on: April 13, 2014, 09:34:01 AM »

Beginners, thanks to Sean we have the Mini model article posted here.  The Mini looks to be an ideal beginner Cd'H model so why not send $10 to http://carstensbookstore.com/micod.html and have a go at this postal?   Or have a look at several of the other plans posted on the two 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal threads.  The rules appear in the first post of this thread.  

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Mark
Soc
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« Reply #51 on: April 14, 2014, 12:21:50 AM »

A bit more work on Dwarf Dip.

The laminations for the prop blades.

The bottom two layers are feathered toward the tip and the edges
so that the finished blades will have at least two laminations near the edges and three lams at the thickest part of thr section.
1mm sheet thinned to about 0.5mm at the tip and less near the edges.

The auto focus is not too good but the pic conveys the idea I hope.

Sean
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Soc
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« Reply #52 on: April 16, 2014, 01:50:23 AM »

Dwarf Dip creeps a little further.

The form shown on the Dwarf Dip plan is very close to true helical at 22" pitch.
Incidently the blade shape that fits the form is wider near the middle and narrower at the tip than the pattern shown.

I have a number of helical forms that can be used as 'building boards' for both indoor and outdoor props.
When dealing with things helical it seems more natural to work with the pitch per radian which is the radius where the helical angle is 45o.  My forms have pitch per radian 10cm, 12cm, 14cm, and 16.5cm.
I probably need another at 8 to 8.5cm to cover the practical range.

I'm moulding the DD blades on a form with pich of about 25" pitch. (the 10cm form)
The finished blades will be rigged at 30o at 6" radius as shown on the plan.
The 'error' in the middle part of the blade will be negligible and there will be just less than 1owashout at the tip.
Thats less than 1/2 mm twist and at the limit of constuction accuracy for nost of us.
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billdennis747
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« Reply #53 on: April 16, 2014, 05:35:45 AM »

Help! - here's a real beginner's question.
I have just glued together the two inner wing panels on a Baron Knight. The plan says " 1" here", pointing to the outer inner/tip break. So I put one panel flat and propped the other up two inches. It looks too much, and more than on the model photo on the plan. It also says 4 1/2" total at the tip.
I know I am going to mess this up - have done so before. Have I misread it? Should it be half inch under each inner panel?
thanks
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Soc
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« Reply #54 on: April 16, 2014, 06:26:45 AM »

I think it looks OK Bill, compared to the photo with the plan.
That is how I would interpret the plan and if the inner panels are about 12" long its not too much.
To get 4-1/2" total you should raise the tips about 3" with the corresponding cemtre panel flat.
These models needed a lot of dihedral to ROG safely.

Sean
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Soc
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« Reply #55 on: April 16, 2014, 06:43:35 AM »

Correction Bill

2-1/2" tip rise with the centre panel flat on the board will be closer to the mark for 4-1/2" total.

Sean
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billdennis747
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« Reply #56 on: April 16, 2014, 07:16:43 AM »

Thank you - I shall carry on.
See, Mark - I've started!
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tctele
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« Reply #57 on: April 16, 2014, 01:14:54 PM »

Trust me Bill you're not the only one who does this, on my OD models I always sand it in as I always get it wrong, I'm even worse bending wire!
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Soc
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« Reply #58 on: April 23, 2014, 11:59:35 PM »

Dwarf Dip Prop Progress

The blades came out with 'geological' rather than aerodynamic sections due to me skipping a packing pad to control the under-camber.
I just pressed the laminations down near the middle as I pinned around the edges allowing them to bubble up a little.
One blade needed about 1/2 mm fill near the centre. You can just make it out in the 2nd pic.
The back side of both blades and the top side of one are nearly done.
You can see that the top lamination extends to within 5 mm of the TE on the shaped blade because of the feathered laminations.
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billdennis747
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« Reply #59 on: May 02, 2014, 01:32:24 PM »

I have nearly finished the fuselage for my Barron Knight. This is quite the most tedious and difficult 'simple' fuselage I have built. I had to build it between two straight pieces of square timber to keep it straight. I would love to see the other one I made in 1965 at the age of 14! Must have been horrible.
I suppose it set the trend for long fuselages.
What happened to Dave White? He seemed to just disappear.
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Mark Braunlich
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« Reply #60 on: June 02, 2014, 09:00:00 AM »

Just a reminder that with the arrival of June, the 4 month window for official flights is now open for those living in the Southern Hemisphere.   Please review the rules at the first post in this thread before flying and sending in your scores.   Good luck to all those down under.

Also, I'd appreciate seeing some photos / videos posted of any models under construction or finished or in flight. 
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Mark
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« Reply #61 on: June 02, 2014, 07:04:53 PM »

Standby-the rebuild of the Baron Night is nearly done....covering later this week

 ChrisM
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Mark Braunlich
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« Reply #62 on: June 03, 2014, 12:13:52 PM »

Looks good Chris.  As I recall, the BKII has tapered longerons. Did you taper them?  I only ask because it seems like that would not be fun.
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Mark
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« Reply #63 on: June 03, 2014, 03:07:14 PM »

No-as published the plan does not show tapered longerons. As Bill Dennis noted earlier, the fuselage seems deceptively simple until you actually try to build it-when you find its both fiddly and hard to keep straight. I'm wondering how I managed it the first time more than 30 years ago-as I recall my original was not exactly straight.....this one is....

 ChrisM
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« Reply #64 on: June 03, 2014, 05:53:43 PM »

It was the Garter Knight, not Baron, that showed tapered longerons, 1/8" --> 3/32" from memory. I do not expect many did it!

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Soc
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« Reply #65 on: June 04, 2014, 06:12:56 AM »

More work on Dwarf Dip

I built the tailplane.
It came out quite stiff in torsion but about 1 gm heavier than I would like due to the wide TE and the spruce spar I thought it needed.
I found it fiddly to make. Trad geodetic with spar on top would be faster and stronger for the same weight.

My slap dash prop blade moulding efforts came unstuck. (see post #59 above)
While shaping the second blade I realised some areas had de-laminated.
I tried to fix it with slits and injected glue but ended with a mess.
So I made a pad to go on the mould to form the under camber ready to do a third blade properly.
(Charlie Sotich warned in his instructions that one should make 3 blades)
Then I thought I might as well try to salvage the malformed blade .
 I soaked it in water for some hours which got the wrinkles out of the mangled laminations,
injected a bit more glue into the de-laminated areas, pinned it down and left it overnight.
It worked except for a minor blemish; wood stains from the pins.

Like ChrisM, I'm thinking Dwarf Dip is more fiddly than it needs to be.

Next will be the wings and the prop hub. At least the hub is pretty standard.

Sean
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151-30
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« Reply #66 on: June 04, 2014, 04:40:08 PM »

             . this is 1968 Yves Sargentini french champion replica under building.
complete drawings and d├ętails found in various MRA.
made with real vintage components from a dusty box in the back of my garage/
-LERC fiberglas rod, my latest yellow modelspan sheet, nose bearing.......etc...
-not yet found 1968 pirrelli on "e-bay" (but I still have lots of 1986 orange variety.....if you want some just ask)

I started CH contests with my father in 1972 with B.Boutiller 130-12 direct evolution of Sargentini's model (Grenoble school) and remember so it is a real replica.

(perhaps I will have a "certificate of conformity" from Yves himself, still active glider pilot , friend of mine.)

     I need just to have enought spare time this summer for test flying before this winter contest .

     More news later

              Yours frienly
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Mark Braunlich
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« Reply #67 on: June 04, 2014, 05:09:47 PM »

Welcome 151-30!!  (Maybe you can let us know your christian name?)  About time we had a French modeller join the fun.

The '68 Sargentini replica looks magnificent!  Please keep us updated with your progress and thanks for sharing.

And before anyone asks, yes, the fiberglass rod is permitted as it was in the original '68 model.
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« Reply #68 on: June 11, 2014, 02:50:45 AM »

Well the Baron knight is done-original wing and tailplane, new fuselage, rebuilt original fin, and prop assembly a mix of new and old. Just a couple of tapered shims required to set a couple of degrees right thrust. Otherwise good to go......
heavier than I'd like at 80g, but with an old 3/16 motor fitted, CG is around 75% which is not too bad, and about the middle of the CG range I tried on the original 30+ years ago (68-80%)

ChrisM
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THB
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« Reply #69 on: June 11, 2014, 06:50:28 AM »

Nice prop blades SOC! I usually do those bits last. I can't believe how BIG some of these coupes are.
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Tim
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« Reply #70 on: June 11, 2014, 11:45:17 PM »

Thanks for the encouragement Tim.

I've done a little more in spite of an energy sapping cold.

Turned out that a jig I had on hand will be just right for these blades.

The blades are coloured with wood dye.
Nice solid colour which does not seem to fade and barely detectable weight gain.

I hope you get some scores soon Chris.
We have been missing some great weather here; more like what is expected in May.

Sean
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« Reply #71 on: June 12, 2014, 07:04:45 AM »

Sean they look like Sleek Streak blades!
I like it a lot.

Meanwhile I'm getting way ahead of myself and thinking about the flying technicalities.
Can I use a bubble machine?
Mylar streamer?
Thermistor?

Can I swing a 60s knitted cardigan around my head to try to detach thermals from the ground surface?

I hope everyone is using 60s (Dunlop?) rubber. I don't want to see any 5/99 motors sneaking in   Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin

Just kidding - and hope your cold is better.
Tim
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billdennis747
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« Reply #72 on: June 12, 2014, 07:32:32 AM »


Can I use a bubble machine?
Mylar streamer?
Thermistor?


If we have to fly Dec-March in the N hemisphere I will be using an overcoat and gauntlets, if I can find somewhere to fly that time of year. I suspect winter means different things in, say, Scotland and Miami!
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ffkiwi
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« Reply #73 on: June 12, 2014, 04:02:15 PM »

Sean -I hope to take it out tomorrow (Sat 14th) for a trimming session........

 ChrisM
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« Reply #74 on: June 13, 2014, 10:49:51 PM »

Hi all,
  Bill Dennis and FFkiwi,  as to your Barron Knight IIs, I see on the plan there is to be a 1/16" wash in at the outer rib of the right wing inner panel at the leading edge?  I have never seen wash out or wash in given for a leading edge before.  Then there is to be 1/8" wash out for both outer panels?  I understand the wash out part but why the leading edge wash in on the right inner panel? Isin't leading edge wash in the same as trailing edge wash out?  I am going with building the Barron Knight II myself and hope to learn a bit from you two.  As stated above the Garter Knight has tapered longerons but the plan for the Barron seems to also as drawn.  The width of the longerons at the front of the fuselage is a bit wider than at the rear but the plan says just 3/32".  I've started cutting wing ribs and other bits.  I have never built a Coupe before or anything like it accept for a old Victoria Parker.  I'm sure I will learn a bit.  Regards,  Bingo
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