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Author Topic: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal  (Read 148916 times)
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Mark Braunlich
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« Reply #375 on: June 24, 2015, 10:08:11 AM »

Some more progress on Duezio..........style and grace, totally absent  Grin

Looks lovely from here Dave.
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« Reply #376 on: June 25, 2015, 04:54:54 PM »

The rules again with dates updated for the 2015-2016 season:

1960s Winter Cup Postal Rules

•   Dates of the competition:  In keeping with the spirit of a winter free flight event, those living in the Southern Hemisphere will fly June-Sept, 2015.   Those living in the Northern Hemisphere will fly in Dec, 2015 through March, 2016.  Models may be flown on more than one day during the allotted time spans.

•   Models must be built from plans or 3-views published between January, 1960 and December, 1969 (inclusive).    Earlier models that were published in the 1960s may be flown.  Models designed in the 1960s that were not published until later may not be flown in this competition.

•   In the event that models are built to small 3-views lacking detail or clarity, the competitor is allowed to improvise for the missing details but the model should be completed with 1960s’ technology and materials.  Models must not be “modernized” with materials that were not in common use in that decade.  For example, covering should be tissue paper, Silkspan or Modelspan.

•   Each competitor is responsible for being able to prove, if challenged, that the model in question was published in the 1960s time frame.  It is suggested that such documentation be in hand before any given model is constructed for this competition.
 
•   Models must not include VIT, folding wings, or other functions and materials common in modern F1G practice. (No carbon fiber, Kevlar, Mylar)

•   The D/T function should, if possible, be provided with whatever was used on the original for the timing function.  A mechanical timer may only be used if there is shown to exist, documentation that such a timer is appropriate to the airframe in question during the 1960s or if a burning fuse type is illegal in your locale.  Viscous timers are also permitted.

•   Models originally designed for 90gram airframes with 10gram motors may be lightened for this competition.
 
•   Each competitor may fly up to (3) three models but may enter only once.

•   Models must weigh in excess of 70.0 grams less motor.

•   Maximum weight of the motor lubricated is 10.0 grams.

•   Each competitor is on their honor to fly a model to the weight requirements.  The timesheet shall include an initialed statement that the weight of the airframe and the motor(s) used in the official flights meet the weight requirements.

•   Models shall be hand launched.   Jumping is allowed.

•   Each competitor is entitled to (5) five official flights with a maximum of 120 seconds for each official flight.

•   Each competitor shall declare to his/her timekeeper that an official flight is being attempted.
 
•   The timekeeper shall record the duration of the first attempt of the official flight unless the flight is unsuccessful.

•   An unsuccessful attempt shall be any flight of less than 20 seconds.

•   A second unsuccessful attempt at the official flight shall be recorded as a zero time flight.

•   The timekeeper should be positioned near the point of launching and may not follow the model.

•   If (5) five maxes are recorded by a competitor, additional official flight(s) shall be flown with maximum flight durations increasing in 30 second increments, 150, 180, 210, 240 seconds, etc.

•   The competitor and timekeeper shall sign their timesheet and e-mail a scanned image of same to the Contest Director, Mark Braunlich or another delegated to fill the CD role in the event that would be necessary.  Do NOT post your official times in this thread or elsewhere on HPA.
 
•   The three top placing competitors will be awarded modest trophies or plaques provided by myself.  All entrants are encouraged to engage in friendly competition, make new friends and above all: have fun.
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cd_webb
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« Reply #377 on: June 25, 2015, 09:26:30 PM »

Some more progress on Duezio..........style and grace, totally absent  Grin

I think it looks great! It has it's own individual "style and grace". Where are you with respect to weight?

Went back and re-read the rules last night. Guess I just remembered wrong. With everything but the nose block attachment method and adding a snuffer tube, I still will try to stay as close to plan as possible. May not be particularly smart, but I suppose I just want to see if I can. There are several things in this one that will be a serious challenge, not the least of which being a very thin and dual tapered wing and stabilizer. Haven't looked that closely yet, but I think the center ribs and tip ribs are all that's shown. I'll need to figure out how I'm going to tackle the ones in between.

Got the prop blades carved and drilled. It works pretty well. Wire bending time is looming!   
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dputt7
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« Reply #378 on: June 26, 2015, 03:47:32 AM »

       David, the weights so far are  Fuse 18 grams Wing 18 grams Tailplane and Fin 6 grams. Total 42 grams not brilliant but better than last years effort. Your prop looks great, nice workmanship.

       There are no prop details on the Duezio plan other than the blade shape, so "thinking like a teenager in the 60's" I found details of a similar model, Dwarf Dip, and will copy that.  I've carved the prop block to start with.

       
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cd_webb
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« Reply #379 on: June 27, 2015, 06:42:51 PM »

Solved the double tapered wing and stab problem (though you can't tell from the miserable pictures). Still can't figure out how to save a screen shot.

Flyace, if you do build this one, I'm finding that some of the wood sizes called for are going to require mountains of sawdust be made. I'm stripping wood for the stab tonight. Hope to start it tomorrow.
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FLYACE1946
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« Reply #380 on: June 27, 2015, 08:46:30 PM »

Thanks CD I like my wood stripper too. I got a new one and plenty of no 11 blades. Thanks for the tip.
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Hepcat
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« Reply #381 on: June 27, 2015, 10:17:32 PM »

Response to #380.

cdw,
I am not a computer expert but on the matter of saving a screen shot; have you gone through the stages of: START>programs>accessories> snipping tool?  Or have you been through those stages and the problem comes later?
John
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cd_webb
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« Reply #382 on: June 27, 2015, 10:46:08 PM »

Response to #380.

cdw,
I am not a computer expert but on the matter of saving a screen shot; have you gone through the stages of: START>programs>accessories> snipping tool?  Or have you been through those stages and the problem comes later?
John

No, I haven't, but I'll give it a shot. Had NO idea where to even start. Thanks for the suggestion!

Best I could manage. May not be any better than before.
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cd_webb
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« Reply #383 on: July 01, 2015, 05:50:24 PM »

I decided to put the stab off for a few days because of a sudden craving to build a fuselage. I feel like I need to beef the nose up somehow. Even though the longerons and stringers are glued into notches, it just doesn't seem to me to be enough glue area to keep the plywood plate where it I put it - or is my tendency to over build everything getting the best of me again?

CD
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cd_webb
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« Reply #384 on: July 03, 2015, 04:41:58 PM »

And, as some of you more experienced builders may have noticed from post # 378, my prop blades folded back in a most untidy way. Stirring what grey matter I have left, I decided to flip the hub front to rear. This is what you get... It may all be to do over again! Undecided

CD
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USch
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« Reply #385 on: July 03, 2015, 05:05:49 PM »

your right, cd, the hub drawing from Aeromodeller is the wrong way round. Never trust anybody  Wink

Urs
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« Reply #386 on: July 04, 2015, 03:16:17 AM »

Finally-a great mid winter's day in NZ (at least in the Wellington/Wairarapa region!) and finally a score to post-the Garter Knight performed as well as one expects from that inefficient prop-I flew 8 competition flights (5 for the postal and 3 with another better performing model for our National Decentralised Coupe event plus two test flights......and didn't break a single motor!   Maxed out in the NDC event as well-a really good day all round! Temp ranged from 52-56F over the morning. The other two are Graeme Lovejoy and Paul Squires....Graeme has a 'Nikolina' underway.....don't know if he'll complete it in time-still he's got two more months!

 ChrisM
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Mark Braunlich
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« Reply #387 on: July 04, 2015, 06:16:26 PM »

Some great posts and photos here lately.  Thanks cd and Chris.  Keep them coming.  

Shame about the Nikolina prop hub cd.  Must be maddening.  You have run into the problem of mixing TAP and FAP on the same drawing.  In the USA, drawings are made with "Third Angle Projection".  In the UK and in most countries with metric standards, drawings are made with "First Angle Projection".  The Nikolina plan was drawn with a mix of both, very poor practice.  To understand what I'm talking about, look at the fuselage views.  The top projection of the fuselage is drawn under the side elevation; that's FAP.  If the fuselage had been drawn with TAP, the top projection would be above the side elevation.

The view of the propeller hub to the left of the side view of hub is actually the FRONT elevation of the hub.  The hub views were drawn with TAP  Angry.   The propeller blade is drawn with FAP.

Because of the international nature of manufacturing these days, most drawings for industry now state in the title block whether the drawing is drawn with Third Angle Projection or First Angle Projection.   With many modern CAD systems now automatically producing the various views from a three dimensional model, this type of drafting error is minimized.   You tell the program whether you want FAP or TAP and the views are correctly produced and placed.   In the 1960s they didn't have such niceties and errors such as this were common.
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« Reply #388 on: July 04, 2015, 09:33:15 PM »

I realize this is my first try at building a 2 blade folding prop, but this one has really kicked my butt! All day today (try #5) to cut another hub and carve 2 new props, both with new ply parts. This one folds right. Good heavens, what a gaggle!! Tongue
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« Reply #389 on: July 07, 2015, 10:49:35 AM »

Probably been covered here before, but is Polyspan an acceptable covering?
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Mark Braunlich
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« Reply #390 on: July 07, 2015, 02:18:15 PM »

Probably been covered here before, but is Polyspan an acceptable covering?

cd, I'm not familiar with Polyspan, (probably should be but I'm notoriously "old school").   So, I'm going to say that if it's a tissue that you can adhere and finish with traditional methods like clear dope, then yes, it's  okay.  If it requires Balsaloc or similar and an iron to adhere it, then no. 

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« Reply #391 on: July 07, 2015, 03:20:34 PM »

Hi Mark; I'd say yes. I apply it with dope, it looks exactly like tissue (unless you put it on upside down in which case it looks like a badly-shaved pig). You shrink it with an iron but you need to dope it.
Bill
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FF Bruce
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« Reply #392 on: July 07, 2015, 07:22:55 PM »

The weight of Polyspan is much more than tissue so if weight is an issue you should think twice about using it.Just adding some food for thought.
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« Reply #393 on: July 07, 2015, 07:46:12 PM »

Mark, I was of the personal opinion that Polyspan would not be a rules violation, but wanted your blessing if I chose to go that route.

The weight of Polyspan is much more than tissue so if weight is an issue you should think twice about using it.Just adding some food for thought.

Bruce, my thoughts were to possibly cover the fuselage only, for durability's sake. But I'm straddling the fence on whether or not to use it just because of the added weight. I think I've got a reasonably light build going here, but I've thought that before and been shocked in the end. My gut feeling is to not give up one gram that I don't have to. Probably best to stay strictly with tissue.
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Mark Braunlich
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« Reply #394 on: July 07, 2015, 08:07:26 PM »

Charles,
Consider covering your fuselage with tissue and double covering the bottom only if the weight allows it.
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« Reply #395 on: July 08, 2015, 07:56:48 AM »

  Great to hear you finally got in some flights Chris and sound like good ones too.

  Prop blades and wire hub just about done, the blades seem to point in the right direction and fold back reasonably flush.

  Cold and damp here at night so I'll have to wait for the weekend to start covering, though the forecast isn't that good either.
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« Reply #396 on: July 08, 2015, 05:49:54 PM »

Yes it was a long time coming-this winter has been as wet and miserable as last year's so far-and we're not even half way through. Snow on the hills round Wellington and Upper Hutt today and snow forecast down to 100m-so last saturday was an unexpected oasis-and much appreciated by the four of us who went out to the FF site. I was rather shocked when 'processing' the model afterwards to find it clanging on the scales at 82g....sans rubber!  So it would have been 92g in flying order...ouch!   Under the circumstances I'm quite happy with the scores I recorded. Certainly I could improve the performance by using a better prop-but since i have plenty of Coupes -4 decent ones plus a still unsorted Burdov one-there's no need. I flew the William Beales design for our NDC event on the same day maxed out without too much effort-this is a good design and in my hands performs well-I've built two over the past 15 years.
   August is usually lambing time on the farm and the farmer isn't too keen on us flying then-so we are a bit limited-not to mention actually get ON can be a drama in winter anyway if there has been much rain-the ground is often too soft to drive in-and its not practical to walk in over a kilometre to the flightline from the access road. July is generally problematic due to rain and soft ground-June and September would normally offer the best options for flying in winter here-with June usually being a bit more settled than September-but June this year was a write off as regards flying weather...

 ChrisM
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« Reply #397 on: July 11, 2015, 09:43:20 AM »

Most of the wood work is done now. Plan call for a couple of gussets on each wingtip, then to round the tips. DT setup still needs to be done, and then there's that infernal "landing gear", or is it a take off gear? Does anyone know if it is supposed to be extended all of the time or if it's actuated after launch in some way? Is it even necessary to have it at all?  Huh

I'm pretty happy with my weights on the individual components so far. Fuse is at 10 grams, wing is also 10 grams. The tail surfaces weigh 4 grams ( I did build up the fin instead of using sheet), and the assembled nose block with a good bit of excess wire hanging out of it weighs 17 grams - 41 grams all tolled.
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« Reply #398 on: July 11, 2015, 10:20:58 AM »

In that case I would definitely double cover the motor part of the fuselage - polyester tissue with tissue on top.
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« Reply #399 on: July 11, 2015, 11:33:53 AM »

Most of the wood work is done now. Plan call for a couple of gussets on each wingtip, then to round the tips. DT setup still needs to be done, and then there's that infernal "landing gear", or is it a take off gear? Does anyone know if it is supposed to be extended all of the time or if it's actuated after launch in some way? Is it even necessary to have it at all?  Huh

I'm pretty happy with my weights on the individual components so far. Fuse is at 10 grams, wing is also 10 grams. The tail surfaces weigh 4 grams ( I did build up the fin instead of using sheet), and the assembled nose block with a good bit of excess wire hanging out of it weighs 17 grams - 41 grams all tolled.

Nice bones. Very tasty.
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