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Author Topic: best fuel for torpedo?  (Read 910 times)
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SolarCyclone
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« on: March 11, 2014, 10:26:32 PM »

Hello, was wondering the best performance fuel I could use for older engines such as a torpedo 40 series 70? Is it safe to pump whatever nitro I want through it (40-60%) or do I need something with extra oil in it and lower nitro as someone suggested to me? It has never been run before, should I use a special break in fuel as well? Thank you
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gossie
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« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2014, 10:56:21 PM »

I have two of those engines. 
 One that had been run that I purchased from a member of this site, that is in a Free Flight model I built for it, and I run 50% methanol, 25% castor, 25% nitro fuel through it that I mixed myself.  The engine starts instantly on the electric finger and sounds magnificent.  10 X 6 APC prop.
I was lucky enough to pick up another never used or run one late last year, and when I get around to using it I shall be probably upping the oil a little and downing the nitro to about 10%? and giving it a few minutes running to settle it in before using my standard mix.
No doubt for full power with a well run in engine you could use 25% methanol, 25% castor, 50% nitro.
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glidermaster
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« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2014, 11:30:20 AM »

I would have thought that 20% oil was sufficient for these engines, as they are ball raced.
So far as nitro is concerned, I think it's also fair to say that US made engines of that era were set up to make use of nitro-methane, which is (or was, at least) much cheaper and more readily available than in (for instance) Europe. That said, I think Gossie (with 25% nitro) is probably using towards the lower end of the ideal nitro content. I recall reading an Al Vela article in Model Builder, I think (it was about his Lipstick C design), in which he said he was using 55% nitro in these engines, and he was a friend of Bill Wisniewski, so presumably Al had some advice on fuel from him, too.

So, a long winded way of saying that my recommendation would be 20% oil, and 20-40% nitro, and I would break it in with the fuel you intend to use - keeping it rich and fast for the first runs.

John
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applehoney
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« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2014, 01:15:26 PM »

I used 50% in K&B RR's back in the 70's, liked those engines very much.   Rightly or wrongly I have never bothered too much about breaking in a new engine as I figured that brief fast runs in FF, with adequate cooling between same as I plodded after the airplane, served the same purpose
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SolarCyclone
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« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2014, 10:01:20 AM »

Do any of you feel straight castrol is necessary? Synthetics too dangerous for this engine at such a high nitro?
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glidermaster
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« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2014, 03:15:18 PM »

I don't think there's an advantage to castor in a ringed engine with ball race supported shaft - synthetic is just as good, and the engine will run cleaner.

Castor offers some benefit in ABC type engines - or so I've read somewhere.

John
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carpetbagger
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« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2014, 07:58:12 PM »

An advant6age of castor is it kind of stays i9n the engine after use, thus preventing rust. In the 70s & 80s when I had my hobby shop some synthetics (?) ran so clean the metal i9n the engine would be dry after the residue evaporated and the BB races would rust. I sold a lot of bearings until someone figured out the problem, and the simple cure was add a small percentage of castor to the oil mix - a hybrid oil Huh
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ffkiwi
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« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2014, 09:24:08 PM »

If you intend going much above 40% nitro in the Torp 40 you'll have no choice but to use a synthetic-at around 45% nitro, castor nitro and methanol will no longer mix (unless additional components are added to facilitate this) [You get two distinct phases in the fuel-not a good situation] Chemically modified castors such as Klotz Benol may mix OK in these circumstances. I still prefer castor...........

 ChrisM
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glidermaster
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« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2014, 11:51:32 AM »

Regardless of the type of oil in the fuel, we should all be using an 'After Run Oil' in our engines.

When you finish flying, drain the tank, and clear out the last flood-off (if you use flood off), and then a few drops of After Run Oil in the exhaust, a couple down the intake, and a drop behind the prop driver, flip it over a bit to distribute the oil, and wrap a clean rag around it - the oil will drip out in the model box, or the car if you don't!
Your engine will love you for it  Smiley
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gossie
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« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2014, 05:17:15 PM »

Regardless of the type of oil in the fuel, we should all be using an 'After Run Oil' in our engines.

When you finish flying, drain the tank, and clear out the last flood-off (if you use flood off), and then a few drops of After Run Oil in the exhaust, a couple down the intake, and a drop behind the prop driver, flip it over a bit to distribute the oil, and wrap a clean rag around it - the oil will drip out in the model box, or the car if you don't!
Your engine will love you for it  Smiley

Good suggestions there.
I normally run the last bit out of the tank to clear fuel out of the system, then hose the engine/s out with WD40 or similar then use normal car oil into exhaust, intake and prop. driver as John suggests. Turn it over several times.
  Wrap it in an old rag and your done until next time.  And you will find next time it will fire up straight away without any castor clogging it up anywhere.
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danberry
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« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2014, 10:46:25 PM »

Regardless of the type of oil in the fuel, we should all be using an 'After Run Oil' in our engines.

When you finish flying, drain the tank, and clear out the last flood-off (if you use flood off), and then a few drops of After Run Oil in the exhaust, a couple down the intake, and a drop behind the prop driver, flip it over a bit to distribute the oil, and wrap a clean rag around it - the oil will drip out in the model box, or the car if you don't!
Your engine will love you for it  Smiley

Good suggestions there.
I normally run the last bit out of the tank to clear fuel out of the system, then hose the engine/s out with WD40 or similar then use normal car oil into exhaust, intake and prop. driver as John suggests. Turn it over several times.
  Wrap it in an old rag and your done until next time.  And you will find next time it will fire up straight away without any castor clogging it up anywhere.

WD40 is a bad idea.
Rislone or transmission fluid are a good idea.
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gossie
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« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2014, 12:08:01 AM »

Regardless of the type of oil in the fuel, we should all be using an 'After Run Oil' in our engines.

When you finish flying, drain the tank, and clear out the last flood-off (if you use flood off), and then a few drops of After Run Oil in the exhaust, a couple down the intake, and a drop behind the prop driver, flip it over a bit to distribute the oil, and wrap a clean rag around it - the oil will drip out in the model box, or the car if you don't!
Your engine will love you for it  Smiley

Good suggestions there.
I normally run the last bit out of the tank to clear fuel out of the system, then hose the engine/s out with WD40 or similar then use normal car oil into exhaust, intake and prop. driver as John suggests. Turn it over several times.
  Wrap it in an old rag and your done until next time.  And you will find next time it will fire up straight away without any castor clogging it up anywhere.

WD40 is a bad idea.
Rislone or transmission fluid are a good idea.

I just hose any residue out of the motors with that stuff to clean them inside and out, then oil them up properly.
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rick121x
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« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2014, 01:20:22 AM »

I agree with Danbury, WD-40 is a bad idea! It has a great deal of wax dissolved. I know this from a commercial product many years ago. We used WD-40 as a lube in a light gear train, and after time it turned nearly solid, jamming the gears from operating. The product recall was VERY expensive and nearly ruined the company.

WD works great as a protective coating, but not as a lubricant. It is guaranteed to gum things up.
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carpetbagger
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« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2014, 06:55:40 AM »

I agree with Danberry - WD-40 is not a good choice. WD = Water Displacement so it will chase water away but in my experiance WD-40 kind of leaves the scene and parts begin to rust. CRC 5-56 is better, but my usual after treatment for nitro engines when I had them was plain old machine oil or ATF.
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glidermaster
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« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2014, 01:43:41 PM »

I don't really know if WD40 is a good or bad idea, but I suspect it's not great for long term storage. However, Traxxas (the RC Car oufit) recommend or used to recommend, flushing out their engines with it, and while it's a slight shift of topic, I've heard that at least one respected F1C flier would flush out the reduction gear train every flight with WD40.

I am currently using Model Technics After Run Oil - the same bottle I've had since I left the UK nearly 20 years ago. I can state therefore, that it lasts quite a long time(!), and I use it at the close of every flying session.
I also have a bottle of 'Special' After Run Oil given to me by a well known local CL Speed flier who claimed it to be a secret formulation (and who was presumably worried the CIA or MI-5 would find out, judging by his furtive glances, hushed tones and refusal to tell me what was in it!). It bears more than a passing resemblance to Automatic Transmission Fluid however. Bearing in mind the foregoing, and despite any concerns about national security, I would be prepared to sell this magical concoction for say $100 for the 50cc bottle? PM me if interested................

John
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gossie
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« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2014, 05:20:10 PM »

$100 for a 50cc bottle...........come on John, FAR too cheap. Grin

Further to me using WD40 I only flush the engines out with that, or CRC etc. etc. because it's under pressure and you can really move residue in the engine.  As said, when that's done that only takes a minute then the engine oil goes into the engine via exhaust and venturi.
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