Logo
Builders' Plan Gallery  |  Hip Pocket Web Site  |  Contact Forum Admin  |  Contact Global Moderator
August 26, 2019, 01:07:58 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with email, password and session length
 
Home Help Search Login Register
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: BSD micro R/C "peanut" scale Sterling Mambo  (Read 2336 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Konrad
Titanium Member
*******

Kudos: 38
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 2,158


Measure twice cut once



Ignore
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2014, 04:29:44 PM »

Great info guys,

I think I was puffing the older 120s
Logged

Cut it twice and it's still too short!
Hank G B Z
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 2
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 167

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2014, 11:17:23 AM »

Well Starting covering last night seems to be a mixed result.  I had pre shrunk some tissue from my failed piper vagabond project and thought this would be great to use.  i also bought some "tissue paste" from the hobby shop to try out.  I started by putting a band around the wing like glassing it.  Doesn't need it and would work better if i had gotten it straight.  But it went on ok.  I just cut a piece of tissue and then painted an area where i wanted it to be and laid it down.  The tissue paste seemed to grip well and pull the stuff down nice and smooth. So i decided to try the horizontal stab next.  I painted the tissue paste on the stab and then laid my piece of tissue on.  the stab warped due to the paste being water based but I decided that the best way to beat that is to put the other side on.  So i trimmed it and put the next side on.  It went on ok and i added a bit of water to the tissue and it shrunk around the edges well.  I then went on to the wing.  I painted the frame with the tissue paste then i wetted the tissue it seemed to be going ok until while trying to smooth everything out the tissue started ripping.  I broke out the heat gun and shrank the tissue and it seemed to show good promise.  Then I looked at it this morning and it seems to have gone slack a bit.  I did rain last night so I moved the parts from the garage to the house to see if being inside a warmer drier environment will help. 

  My current thoughts are:

  The tissue paste is probably wall paper paste and i wasted 8 dollars on it

  I have shrunk the tissue to much already and it'll just tear and not shrink to get the finish i want. 

  I wish water didn't distort wood so much. 

 I have real dope but i don't want to use it because from what i understand supplies are really limited. 

I'm busy for the next few nights but i'll post more pics as i get them. 

Hank
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: BSD micro R/C "peanut" scale Sterling Mambo
Re: BSD micro R/C "peanut" scale Sterling Mambo
Re: BSD micro R/C "peanut" scale Sterling Mambo
Re: BSD micro R/C "peanut" scale Sterling Mambo
Re: BSD micro R/C "peanut" scale Sterling Mambo
Logged
Konrad
Titanium Member
*******

Kudos: 38
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 2,158


Measure twice cut once



Ignore
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2014, 12:19:14 PM »

I too have tried pre shrinking tissue on a rack then applying it to the structure. I never got good results and I was using real nitrate dope.

Also force drying tissue has always looked bad when it comes back to room temperature. Some guys have had good luck using 70% isopropyl alcohol (read 30% water) to control the amount of shrink and warpage from the covering process.

All the best,
Konrad
« Last Edit: April 01, 2014, 12:48:03 PM by Konrad » Logged

Cut it twice and it's still too short!
rick121x
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 11
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 444




Ignore
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2014, 02:22:07 PM »

A comment re the post on preshrunk tissue.

I have preshrunk several types of tissue, Esaki, that supplied in kits, "Dollar" store tissue, and condenser paper, for around 20 models - all have been indoor rubber duration airplanes. I have used free, unrestrained shrinkage, simply laying the tissue on the floor carpet and spraying it with water. I let it dry naturally, and repeat this three times.

Then the tissue is then ironed flat using a "classic household flat iron" set on a low-medium setting. When ironed on an "ironing board" I got a slightly wavy surface on the tissue - usable but not really so great. Using a pillow case on the kitchen counter as an ironing base results in a nicely flat tissue. In addition, a kitchen towel can be used as a base, resulting is a mildly textured tissue surface. I have just started using this for wings - no results yet to report....

My "free shrink" has worked very well, and I am pleased with my preshrunk tissue application, having noted no successive shrinkage or loosening effects.

Lately, I have been shrinking with distilled water, those one gallon bottles from the market, and find that this results in much superior tissue texture. It would appear that the minerals in "tap" water do have the effect of making the tissue somewhat more stiff and less manageable.

 Wink  Give it a try using "free shrink" and use distilled water - it's a lot simpler, and you'll love it.

Richard Ranney
« Last Edit: April 01, 2014, 02:34:14 PM by rick121x » Logged
Megowcoupe
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 4
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 69



Ignore
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2014, 04:47:59 PM »

Hank

Two things

First- the angle of the fuse in flight is really dependent on the wing/fuse angle.  The wing sets every thing else- there's an angle the wing needs to fly at to support the weight at a given speed- everything else falls from that.

Second- in terms of finishes- if you don't want to use nitrate (are you sure about availability issues- pretty sure Brodak is carrying Randolph aircraft dope)- try using Deft interior sealer on the raw wood.  Weight gain is negligible- after the coat, you'll need to sand down the grain which will have come up.  You should be able to attach the tissue with Elmer's thinned 50/50- and I don't see a need to pre-shrink given such a robust structure.  Alternatively, the heat activated glues such as Balsaloc (used for the polyester tissues) work fine with tissue as well.  I must admit though, I really like the polyester tissues on a small RC ship or even Solarfilm Lite- much stronger than doped Japanese tissue and weigh about the same IIRC.

Cheers,

Sam
Logged
Hank G B Z
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 2
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 167

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2014, 05:16:00 PM »

Konrad,

  The forced heating was because i was impatient and wanted results faster.  Getting crappy results is the fall out from that.  I always mix my water with Denatured Alcohol.  It does control the shrink. 

  Rick,

  I was thinking about the free shrink idea, when I saw the tissue ripping in the frame.  My fuse is going to be Orange so i'll try your technique on that. 

Sam,

  I see what you are saying about wing to the fuse being primary to how it looks in flight. To me it is about the relationship between the wing and the tail feathers that will dictate what angle of attack the wing will fly at, at a given air speed.  I was more concerned about the down wash coming off the wings and pushing the tail down.  Changing the wing incidence will change how the down wash affects the tail feathers.  But it is the relationship between the tail feathers and the wing that change things.  To me the fuse is just a box to cary the servos and doesn't change flight characteristics to much.  It's the relationship between he flying surfaces and the propeller that dictate how the plane will fly. 

  I don't know if brodak has dope or not.  Aerogloss is hard to find in hobby shops and i'm not driving an hour to Aircraft spruce and speciality supply to go get brodak dope.  I hear that Deft Lacquer is a good substitute that can be found easily in hardware stores but I still have to contend with California VOC requirements and a 1 year old who likes hanging out in my garage. 

Hank
Logged
Ace Dugan
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 11
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 81



Ignore
« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2014, 05:17:18 PM »

A comment re the post on preshrunk tissue.

I have preshrunk several types of tissue, Esaki, that supplied in kits, "Dollar" store tissue, and condenser paper, for around 20 models - all have been indoor rubber duration airplanes. I have used free, unrestrained shrinkage, simply laying the tissue on the floor carpet and spraying it with water. I let it dry naturally, and repeat this three times.
Richard Ranney

I'm a 'free shrinker' also and have been for several years.  It's the way to go for lightly constructed models.  I usually just iron the tissue on the ironing board, which leaves a little texture to tissue that gives it a take-and-give quality like crepe paper.  Nice for application.  Haven't tried distilled water thou, but will do that now. Thanks...

Ace
Logged
Megowcoupe
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 4
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 69



Ignore
« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2014, 09:46:48 PM »

Hank

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on the aerodynamics.  From my perspective- once the angle of incidence that the wing needs is set by weight/speed- then the same thing applies to the tail.  You can change a bit with cg....

If I had a one year old hanging around- I'd go with Balsaloc- water soluble, very limited odor, brush it on, let it dry for a couple of hours, then apply whatever covering you like with an iron.  Some guys seem to like Future acrylic floor finish- don't know about VOCs from that stuff though.  Advantage of the polyester tissues (Airspan- sold by bphobbies)- once they're on, you're done.

Cheers,

Sam
Logged
Konrad
Titanium Member
*******

Kudos: 38
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 2,158


Measure twice cut once



Ignore
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2014, 10:38:26 PM »

Thanks for the preshrinking tips. I have a few Smith Peanuts that could use these ideas . I think I'll stick to the synthetic tissue for the DR1 but the Albatross needs some very weak shrink coverings.

All the best,
Konrad
Logged

Cut it twice and it's still too short!
Hank G B Z
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 2
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 167

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2014, 11:46:10 AM »

Well a month later and I finally got back to this project.  i tried another attempt at tissue and it didn't go well.  So i covered the plane in solite.  It's cream.  I'll add some green trim and the windows later on this week.  I haven't weighted it yet but i doesn't feel like it's gained to much.  A big up side to going this route is it's more or less a fixed ammount of weight i'm adding to the plane.  Where with tissue there are so many variables like how much glue and dope is used can affect the weight.  I like the way it looks and i'm moving on with the project.  I hope to finish this week.  Here's a crappy pic.  i was tired and wanted to get back to the warm house. 

Hank
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: BSD micro R/C "peanut" scale Sterling Mambo
Logged
Konrad
Titanium Member
*******

Kudos: 38
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 2,158


Measure twice cut once



Ignore
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2014, 12:32:45 PM »

Well a month later and I finally got back to this project.  I tried another attempt at tissue and it didn't go well.  So I covered the plane in solite.  It's cream.  I'll add some green trim and the windows later on this week.  I haven't weighted it yet but i doesn't feel like it's gained to much.  A big up side to going this route is it's more or less a fixed amount of weight I'm adding to the plane.  Where with tissue there are so many variables like how much glue and dope is used can affect the weight.  I like the way it looks and i'm moving on with the project.  I hope to finish this week.  Here's a crappy pic.  I was tired and wanted to get back to the warm house. 

Hank

After you warm up (like it is cold in SoCal). You'll have to let us know what the issues were with the tissue. Did you try pre shrinking? Were using some new fangled attachment process or the good old stand by nitrate dope?

As to the model she is looking, well, rather monochromic. Get some color on her!

I too need to get back to my stalled Ace little Stick.

All the best,
Konrad
Logged

Cut it twice and it's still too short!
Hank G B Z
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 2
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 167

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2014, 04:18:41 PM »

Konrad,

   I tried usning WBPU to "dope" the tissue down.  It was not pre shrunk tissue.  it looked ok.  i just couldn't get it to stick to the edge with out using lots of glue and in frustration i just sanded it all off and busted out the solite. 

   I think a large part of my problem was the sheet wood.  Using WBPU on open structures is easier because well there's more room to shrink and less wood to get distorted by the water based products. 

  I know she's monocromatic right now.  I'm actually doodling on copies of the plans now trying to come up with a good trim idea. 

  My littlest stick is still on hold while i make new push rods to get rid of the tail heavy ness. 

Hank
Logged
Hank G B Z
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 2
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 167

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2014, 10:56:26 AM »

Well last night i go some more work done.  I got some color added to the girl.  The only other color of solite i had was green so that's what's on there.  It looks ok. would have looked better with red trim.  I also added the sticks for the rubber bands and hung the control surfaces.  Tomorrow should see the brick installed with the push rods and then finish up the landing gear and hope for some calm weather for a test flight.  We have really strong Santa Ana winds right now so i'm hoping for a "calm after the wind storm" on Saturday morning. 

  For the windows there was a pattern on the plans so I just copied the plans and made a stencil.  I used Sharpie to color in the windows and now that it's dried i'll use some Krylon to clear coat it.  The Clear coat will also hope fully take some of the sheen of the plastic soliet down and make it seem more model like. 

  Anyway i'm excited. 

Hank
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: BSD micro R/C "peanut" scale Sterling Mambo
Re: BSD micro R/C "peanut" scale Sterling Mambo
Re: BSD micro R/C "peanut" scale Sterling Mambo
Re: BSD micro R/C "peanut" scale Sterling Mambo
Logged
Konrad
Titanium Member
*******

Kudos: 38
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 2,158


Measure twice cut once



Ignore
« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2014, 11:32:11 AM »

She is looking like a Mambo.

I hope you have good luck with the winds.

All the best,
Konrad
Logged

Cut it twice and it's still too short!
Hank G B Z
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 2
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 167

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #39 on: April 30, 2014, 05:48:56 PM »

Thanks Konrad,  I hope she flies better than she looks.  I keep looking at the small stripe in front and thinking it looks like a mustache. 

Hank
Logged
Hank G B Z
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 2
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 167

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #40 on: May 05, 2014, 11:01:01 AM »

Well she has flown.  And she flies very well. 

I finished the radio install on Friday and did some test powered glides in my front yard.  During these tests i got the roll trimmed out and proceeded to crash into my tree, my truck, my neighbors tree, and the parking sign.  No damage was done to the mambo. the Old adage light crashes light proves true again. 

Saturday i headed out to the field to make the actual test flights.  Fist my Tx died, luckly my dad flies on spektrum so i just bound the model to his radio and off i went.  I had to add lots of nose weight to get the CG some where approaching useful so my next project is to move the brick forward a bit and see about making lighter push rods.  Despite coming around 25 grams (including the ballast) the plane flew great.  the little motor has lots of power.  I made two flights of about 10 min each.  Loops with a bit of a dive into it and spins like a top once the wing is stalled.  Landing are a bit of a non event but they do have to be flown.  I tried to shoot a touch and go but the wing tip grabbed a weed and that was that.  Sorry i didn't get any infligt pics.  I forgot the SLR and i don't think the iphone has the lens to catch this thing in flight. 

  Here are a few pics of the finished model and radio install. 

Hank
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: BSD micro R/C "peanut" scale Sterling Mambo
Re: BSD micro R/C "peanut" scale Sterling Mambo
Re: BSD micro R/C "peanut" scale Sterling Mambo
Logged
scrubs
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 8
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 501



Ignore
« Reply #41 on: June 14, 2014, 08:24:22 PM »

It's too bad the Mini Vapor is being discontinued. The BSD peanuts will probably have to go the Deltang or Plantraco route.

bill
Logged
Hank G B Z
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 2
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 167

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #42 on: June 16, 2014, 10:37:45 AM »

Bill,

  If some one wanted to i'm sure they could fit a regular size brick in one of these "peanuts".  The mini vapor brick is actually not that much lighter than a vapor brick it's just smaller. 

  Also horizon put a fair amount of money into developing the mini vapor  brick we can hope they come out with something that uses it...

Hank
Logged
scrubs
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 8
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 501



Ignore
« Reply #43 on: June 17, 2014, 08:31:49 AM »

I emailed Bob and he said the regular Vapor brick only fits in the two Mites. I hope you're right and we see the mini brick in a model again.

bill
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Up
Print
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!