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Author Topic: UK Indoor Scale Nationals 2014  (Read 5653 times)
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John Churchill
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« Reply #125 on: April 16, 2014, 06:12:22 PM »

Russ, I think you showed great character last Sunday, you didn't look too happy, but great 'overall character'. Grin

Congrats on 3rd in glider by the way.
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Yak 52
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« Reply #126 on: April 16, 2014, 06:12:47 PM »

I wouldn't like to be restricted to well documented types though, so maybe just a single proof of scale photo or 3-view, rather than going the full documentation Monty.

Agree, particularly where colour documentation is concerned. Especially as there are so many interesting gliders from the golden age which was pre-colour photography.

I hope to enter Glider next year with my Hutter H17 if it's any good or I might have to build a Smarter 6 gram single surface covered model  Smiley Did anyone get video of Pete's flights?
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Monz
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« Reply #127 on: April 16, 2014, 06:29:11 PM »

I wouldn't like to be restricted to well documented types though, so maybe just a single proof of scale photo or 3-view, rather than going the full documentation Monty.

Agree, particularly where colour documentation is concerned. Especially as there are so many interesting gliders from the golden age which was pre-colour photography.

I hope to enter Glider next year with my Hutter H17 if it's any good or I might have to build a Smarter 6 gram single surface covered model  Smiley Did anyone get video of Pete's flights?

There was a vid of Peter Smart's glider that I saw somewhere, possibly Tim Horne's channel. I'd say the rules then need to be adapted to double covered surfaces, like all the other classes.
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Rich Moore
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« Reply #128 on: April 16, 2014, 06:36:44 PM »

Sorry John - I didn't mean to stir it up, just putting an alternative perspective out there.

I too enjoyed the glider comp and would love to do it again. A little static element would be welcome too, although we'd need yet more judging time!
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Yak 52
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« Reply #129 on: April 16, 2014, 06:39:33 PM »

Thanks, found it - it was Mike:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ftlx3UJ3BWw

I think the single surfaces should stay. Pete has the right idea building small and light because they look really scale in the climb, a long tow to a good height just like the real glider pilot is hoping to achieve. But building small with high aspect ratios means low Reynolds numbers and single surfaces are perfect for that. Leading to a flatter glide angle and so more realism in the descent.
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Ian Melville
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« Reply #130 on: April 16, 2014, 06:41:17 PM »

I posted a link to my video on page one of this this thread.

Repeated here.

Peter Smart - Willow Wren - BMFA Indoor Nats 2014
http://youtu.be/q-NCSRCA9Uw
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« Reply #131 on: April 16, 2014, 06:42:12 PM »

Thanks Ian - couldn't see for looking  Embarrassed

Jon
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John Churchill
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« Reply #132 on: April 16, 2014, 06:51:35 PM »

No problem Richard, I enjoyed the discussion. It's interesting to hear what people think. Smiley
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Monz
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« Reply #133 on: April 16, 2014, 07:17:04 PM »

Thanks, found it - it was Mike:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ftlx3UJ3BWw

I think the single surfaces should stay. Pete has the right idea building small and light because they look really scale in the climb, a long tow to a good height just like the real glider pilot is hoping to achieve. But building small with high aspect ratios means low Reynolds numbers and single surfaces are perfect for that. Leading to a flatter glide angle and so more realism in the descent.

You lost me at "Thanks,..."

If the original was single covered, cool. If it wasn't, is it a scale model? That is of course if a static judging element is introduced...
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John Churchill
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« Reply #134 on: April 16, 2014, 07:32:25 PM »

Really enjoyed the Indoor Scale Glider comp last Sunday, hope it goes from strength to strength. I don't think it should be cluttered up with too many rules, but I do think they should be definitive.

Jon, think your idea of single surface wings is spot on, appearance in flight is all important (imo), a quick desent on a steep glide angle (unless it's typical of the type) is not going to hold anybody's attention. Having said that Pete's model was great fun to watch!

Intended taking part this year, but problems with the Waco build just soaked up time, so much so that it didn't get finished in time anyway, had to enter last years model in the end. I'll try to be there next year though.
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« Reply #135 on: April 17, 2014, 01:54:46 AM »

I wasn't that interested in the glider until i saw everyones elses.  I'd like to get the towing thing to work with a glider, I'm sure it is possible.

Has anyone seen it work?

Andrew
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Ian Melville
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« Reply #136 on: April 17, 2014, 02:19:55 AM »

Do you mean aero-towing? Winch tows and fixed line tows were both done at the Nats. Derek Knight made an attempt at aero-tow, which was quite funny as the tug flew around the glider which stayed on the deck.
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Rich Moore
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« Reply #137 on: April 17, 2014, 03:24:08 AM »

That was a worthy attempt at aero-towing! It did get going at one point and if the tugs turn was opened out more I'm sure it would have worked brilliantly. I'm planning an Me321, towed by a Heinkel 111z for next year!
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John Churchill
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« Reply #138 on: April 17, 2014, 04:20:45 AM »

In the months running up to the Indoor Nats we saw several test flights with scale gliders, mainly at Peterborough, most as I remember were bungee launched. Didn't see any of that at the weekend, has it gone out of favour or is it not allowed or something?
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« Reply #139 on: April 17, 2014, 04:30:48 AM »

We spent a session trying it last year with my Boston Cub and Primary glider. It's really not easy! You need a lot of power in the tug for a start. I did get the d/t damper to release the towline ok. There are more details in the 'Indoor Glider' thread.

In the end I put the idea on hold because it was absorbing so much valuable indoor flying time  Undecided I think getting the consistency needed for a competition would be tricky. An electric powered tug might work better?

Anyone want to build G-SVAS for kit scale next year?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shuttleworthpix/6199140644/in/photostream/


John, bungee launching seems to require a bit of wind to work well. Andy did start off with a bungee on his Prefect but it tended to be a bit too fierce.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=oStDR4hwuKI#t=124
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« Reply #140 on: April 17, 2014, 04:57:28 AM »

Monique,

If the original was single covered, cool. If it wasn't, is it a scale model? That is of course if a static judging element is introduced...

It's the eternal dilemma isn't it? Scale fidelity versus flying performance.

Unfortunately it's really highlighted in gliding where you can't just fight the drag with a blinking great big motor. If you were to use the scale wing section on Pete's model (http://www.scalesoaring.co.uk/VINTAGE/Documentation/Wren/Pages%20from%20vol_3_no6_march_15_1932.pdf) it wouldn't fly like that  Shocked
In terms of the casual observer - I didn't notice the Wren was single covered until it was pointed out to me.


I personally hope the emphasis is kept on the flying. It was magical to watch.

Jon
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John Churchill
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« Reply #141 on: April 17, 2014, 04:58:09 AM »

Thanks Jon, I see what you mean, not very prototypical is it (to say the least), must have been about 20g!
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #142 on: April 17, 2014, 05:20:08 AM »

My current plan is to make one of Pilcher's gliders, probably the Bat or Hawk. Unlike Lilienthal, he really did use a towline to get airborne, so I'll be sticking with that method- although I'm not sure what the rules will say about the two horses needed to pull. Should be okay I think, so long as I clear up after them.
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« Reply #143 on: April 17, 2014, 08:06:39 AM »

Don't forget the hoof divots in the floor! Wink Grin

Martin Huk got a vid of an aerotow (Knight/Smart) attempt at Nijmegen where another flyer dodged the towplane, but didn't see the tow-line... ended up with a glider necklace - so it looks like aero tow is possible!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIgh_I7GybM&feature=youtu.be
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« Reply #144 on: April 17, 2014, 01:46:01 PM »

Pete, I bet you could find a couple of clockwork horses on Ebay Grin, or would that then be a powered model. Undecided Certainly be something to behold, think of the applause!!!
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #145 on: April 17, 2014, 05:04:39 PM »

John, believe me I have genuinely been considering something of the sort! Pilcher apparently ran a line through a block and tackle to either people pulling, or horses. The information is a bit sketchy so I may have to buy the book about him by Phil Jarrett. Any sort of clockwork or pull back toy chassis could be used as a base for the horses. As you say though, does that then count as a power model?  Huh Smiley
Some googling reveals that various gliders have been towed up by cars in the past too, which might also be fun to watch in model form!
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John Churchill
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« Reply #146 on: April 17, 2014, 06:15:37 PM »

Pete, you've got to come up with something unusual, everybody will be expecting great things from you next year.
I think you might have started something...... A Colditz glider off the balcony with the launch weights descending to the floor below ought to do it.
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« Reply #147 on: April 17, 2014, 06:56:06 PM »

Pete,
I used to visit Stanford Hall quite frequently a few years back .... but not in recent times. There used to be a Pilcher display in the stable block .... not sure of the situation now .... not sure if the hall is open to the public in the same way now?

John,
The Colditz glider sounds good .... we will have to wait and see how the rules are developed though I suppose ..... there might not be a balcony next year?

« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 07:09:33 PM by RussLister » Logged
John Churchill
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« Reply #148 on: April 17, 2014, 07:02:29 PM »

Oh yes, I forgot it's not at Nottingham next year Russ Roll Eyes.  Pete it looks like it could be back to the clockwork horses then.
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #149 on: April 17, 2014, 07:32:57 PM »

Or there's this interesting early Bleriot-Voisin floatplane glider which was towed up by a motor boat....

But all that's to come. Meanwhile, has anyone still got some more nice model pics from last Sunday to post I wonder?
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