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mick66
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« on: May 05, 2014, 03:24:41 AM » |
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Hello
Couple of pics of my back up San De Hogan ... hopefully will have it finished for BMFA FF Nats.
Probably won't be trimmed though!
K&B Sportster powered on bladder!
Cheers
Mike
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hastf1b
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« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2014, 08:57:48 AM » |
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Nice looking model. Looks like a "Swiss Miss" that I built in 1957 as my first F1C model.
Heinz
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F1B is o.k.
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applehoney
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« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2014, 10:24:46 AM » |
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Nice Hogan ! I have fond memories of the one I flew in Yorkshire in the 70's - had an early ETA.29 (series 2?) in the nose and that seemed an ideal combination with the design ... hope it works out okay with the Sportster.
At Topcliffe one time the Vintage motor run took it OOS into low cloud a couple of seconds before shutoff. Several of us stood around anxiously surveying various parts of the cloud base until the thing finally dropped back into sight. Relief! Finally d/t'd but was only credited with the 'in sight' motor run
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Ployd
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« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2014, 08:54:56 PM » |
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The Swiss Miss was based on the San De Hogan design.
Ployd in OZ
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"So I collect engines, what's your problem?"
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ffkiwi
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« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2014, 05:18:43 PM » |
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I've had one built but uncovered for 4 or 5 years now-I hadn't considered a K&B Sportster-and I have several of those kicking around-my original intent was a Frog 500-which would be a close match to the Torp 29 shown on the plan...what's your covered with mick66?
ChrisM
'ffkiwi'
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mick66
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« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2014, 01:54:50 AM » |
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Hello
double covered with LW jap. The purple is a double cover over jap of a colourfull but horrible to apply Christmas present type tissue. Used the same method on my first SanDeHogan and that works OK.
Might be a bit of a handfull with the K&B on 35% and pressure but lashings of downthrust should stop any looping or hard right tendancies. I have an OS25 Max in the first one and thats fine now. Took about 3yrs to trim as it was a white knuckle ride every flight till it was sorted.
Weight should be around 24oz.
Cheers
Mike
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ffkiwi
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« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2014, 03:51:46 AM » |
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Aah-another man who likes double Jap covering-I've used it in the past on quite a few power models-right up to .40 size. For the San De Hogan I was tossing up between double Jap over mylar, or silk over mylar. Still haven't decided-the double jap will be easier to apply-silk and I have never had a very comfortable relationship over the years.....looks as though my original plan of putting a Frog 500 in mine might not be too far off then-if the Sportster 20 is likely to overpower it... I still have to finish off the 52" Stratostreak (for an Elfin 249 radial mount) before I get back to finishing the San De Hogan.....
What sort of trim issues did you encounter with the original? As I recall-there have been a few campaigned in the UK over the years-didn't Ewen Baxter-Jones fly one for quite a few years? We have (NZ rules) a 225sq ins/0.1cu ins area/power rule in force in Vintage power, so cannot necessarily power up to optimum levels.......
ChrisM
'ffkiwi'
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gossie
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« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2014, 04:08:32 AM » |
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Yes, double cover with LW Jap opposite grain direction. Does a fine strong job.
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Starduster
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« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2014, 09:49:36 AM » |
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I know that this is going to really upset quite a few of you guys, but...
I find the term "Jap" tissue to be offensive and derogatory.
You wouldn't call a person of Japanese descent a "Jap". So, I don't think the you should use the term in this context, either.
Yes, I know that I'm being way too sensitive, but there it is...
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« Last Edit: May 08, 2014, 10:01:20 AM by Iceman1007 »
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"We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty..."
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Bigtom
Bronze Member
Kudos: 2
 Offline
 United States
Posts: 14
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« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2014, 01:17:52 PM » |
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I apologize in advance to you, but the idea of tissue getting offended is pretty funny...  |
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danberry
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« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2014, 01:54:51 PM » |
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I don't find the term 'Jap tissue' to be a problem.
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mick66
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« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2014, 02:24:31 PM » |
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Hi
LOL ... I'm not upset ... I just think you're being way too sensitive.
Anyhow ... ffkiwi ... trim issues were mainly bunting over to the left in the first 8 seconds followed by swinging right and over the top after that ... all very strange. Pull out was none existent. Too zero zero. I launched it once at Church Fenton and it went up like an F1C. Engine stopped after 17secs, nosed over, came whistling loudly back down vertically and impacted between me and JOD who was passing by. We were only anout 10 ft apart. Model was only about 5 ft from where I launched. Luckily we both watched it up and down. Virtually no damage!
The trim on the current model is now 88% CG, 4.5 degree left thrust, 6.0 degree downthrust, 6mm port tip washout, 0mm port washin, 2mm stb washin, 3mm stb tip washout, 1.0 degree declage ... plus a 7" x 1/8" deep x 3/16" wide Gurney strip on the port TE inside of the tip panel break (to conteract the 2mm stb washin). OS25Max with 9x4 narrow blade master of hard tank with crankcase pressure. About 3/16" right rudder. Weight has crept up to 750g (26.5oz) after numerous repairs before its first contest!
The new model has both inner panels flat with no washin as a starting point. The K&B sportster should be OK ... AllanBrown turned it down and put a NelsonHead on it as well as an 8mm venturi. Goes very well. SteveBarnes flies his SanDeHogan with a K&B Sportster (I think) and it goes well.
EwanBJ also flew them. I timed for him when he won Vintage at the Nats at Barkston a few years ago. His SanDeHogan flew one giant circuit of Barkston airfield to land within feet of the launch point.
Cheers
Mike
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« Last Edit: May 08, 2014, 03:03:12 PM by mick66 »
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mick66
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« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2014, 02:53:35 PM » |
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Couple of photos of the current model ... the beaten up look is from trimming ... not campaigning. My notes say I started it mod 2007! Only got round to using it in anger last year. At least the warps had time to settle!
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« Last Edit: May 08, 2014, 03:03:40 PM by mick66 »
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applehoney
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« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2014, 04:05:36 PM » |
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Ah ... Ewan .. I remember him well. He had a very successful 'Mallard' until the day he walked back talking with another 'Mallard' flyer and we noticed that his (EWB's) was longer than the other.... I do not recall we ever saw it again after that.
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ffkiwi
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« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2014, 08:04:00 PM » |
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I know that this is going to really upset quite a few of you guys, but...
I find the term "Jap" tissue to be offensive and derogatory.
You wouldn't call a person of Japanese descent a "Jap". So, I don't think the you should use the term in this context, either.
Yes, I know that I'm being way too sensitive, but there it is...
You said it-and from the responses you're in a minority-I suggest you get over it-there are FAR worse things to get upset about. I'd start by turning the sensitivity control down.... ChrisM 'ffkiwi' |
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ffkiwi
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« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2014, 08:15:00 PM » |
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Mike-thanks for the input on the San de Hogan issues-as you describe them it does sound a bit odd for a very conventional model setup. My uncovered wing is tucked way at the back of a wardrobe and not easily accessible so I'm not able to confirm what the warps are-but as I recall I built it with about 1/8" washout on each tip and maybe 3/16-1/4" washin on the starboard inner. I'd have thought though that a gurney flap would counteract the washin under power as well-I know Dave Clarkson has used them instead of washin....
....anyway the thrust offsets are useful to know-though it's likely to be the end of this year before I get back to working on this particular project....
ChrisM
'ffkiwi'
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carpetbagger
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« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2014, 08:17:02 PM » |
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I know that this is going to really upset quite a few of you guys, but...
I find the term "Jap" tissue to be offensive and derogatory.
You wouldn't call a person of Japanese descent a "Jap". So, I don't think the you should use the term in this context, either.
Yes, I know that I'm being way too sensitive, but there it is...
Indeed. I call it what it is = Esaki tissue. "Jap" is a non-no, as is numerous other ethnic slurs . . . |
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gossie
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« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2014, 10:06:05 PM » |
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Decided not to respond thank you.  |
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PeeTee
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« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2014, 04:22:52 AM » |
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I detect a distinct whiff of hypocrisy here. Would those so mortally offended care to explain why it is perfectly acceptable to abbreviate 'British' to 'Brit' or 'Brits', yet 'Japanese' to 'Jap' in the context of tissue is offensive? I note that one of the adherents started the following topic not so long ago You Brits certainly know how to design beautiful airplanes... by Iceman1007 Now, can we please get back to what started off as a mature and interesting discussion on a rather nice vintage/classic power model. Mick, I look forward to seeing the model at the Nats and note that the weather is deteriorating nicely  |
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Hepcat
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« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2014, 07:08:08 AM » |
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Applehoney,
It is interesting that you should mention Ewan because the first thing that came to my mind when the theme of San de Hogan came up was Ewan Baxter Jones. In my time on the FFTC his name seemed to pop up quite often. At the Nats one year the prizegiving was held up for ages whilst the authenticity of his 'Hogan' was disputed and on another occasion I was acting as Contest Director and I had that most unusual thing of a formal protest, about the legality of Ewans engine. I searched around for a jury and told Ewan when the hearing would be. He said that was fine and he would be there but he was just popping down to the local village for some lunch. He was never seen on a flying field for many months.
John
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John Barker UK - Will be missed by all that knew him.
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monocoupe110
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« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2014, 09:27:45 AM » |
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Nice looking model Mike. The only time I have seen a Hogan "in the flesh" was in the early 70's. It was a class D version with a McCoy 60 for power!  Cheers, Nigel |
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My ex-wife hates airplanes
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mick66
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« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2014, 09:52:20 AM » |
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Lol ... I guess a K&B Sportster isnt that big then!
Cheers
Mike
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mick66
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« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2014, 12:15:26 PM » |
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Hello
finished at last ... ready to trim. 25oz dead on. Heavier than I wanted but not bad I think.
Lets hope the weather is good for the Nats!
Cheers
Mike
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gossie
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« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2014, 05:26:17 PM » |
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Looks great. I like it. |
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ffkiwi
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« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2014, 05:29:12 PM » |
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Very colorful Mick-that should help the timekeepers no end...25-oz? Seems reasonable to me-my Country Boy 450 Open power models are around 22 oz-and about the same size-and there's a lot more wood in the San de Hogan....as I indicated earlier, mine-though pretty much structurally complete, is well down the priority list at present-and I don't envisage coming back to it until much later this year-I have too many other unfinished projects to deal with before then.Given that its for Vintage, I already have the 52" Stratostreak (in a similar state of completion) to finish off before the San de Hogan-currently mulling the idea of attaching those wretched Stratostreak tip fins with those high strength small magnets, to ease packing in the model box.....
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