Logo
Builders' Plan Gallery  |  Hip Pocket Web Site  |  Contact Forum Admin (Account/Technical Issues)  |  Contact Global Moderator
September 28, 2020, 02:23:51 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with email, password and session length
 
Home Help Search Login Register
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Hawker Tempest II, 1/24 scale rubber power.  (Read 10733 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Don McLellan
Titanium Member
*******

Kudos: 67
Offline Offline

Canada Canada

Posts: 2,464




Ignore
« Reply #50 on: June 17, 2014, 11:56:50 AM »

Agree, an excellent flight. 

Don
Logged
Marco
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 17
Offline Offline

Italy Italy

Posts: 479



Ignore
« Reply #51 on: June 17, 2014, 03:41:29 PM »

Stephen,your model is great ! Please do not rush things to see it flying (as I would do....), flights allowed only over very long grass ! it would be a pity if such a beauty would be damaged !
Logged
OZPAF
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 186
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 5,813



Ignore
« Reply #52 on: June 17, 2014, 08:31:02 PM »

Thats a good looking trim flight Stephen - it looks like it will be very good on higher turns. I would suggest that you try more turns before altering the sidethrust as the turn under power, with the higher torque, will open up and you may find that you will get more height withe right turns.
It looks very safe in right turns and the glide/low power descent is good.
The slight roll wriggles definitely look like pendulum correction to me and response /inertia ratio doesn't look too bad. More power and higher speeds will prove it, no doubt.
Great effort and here's  couple of Cheesy for the collection Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
Good luck  with it.
John
Logged
Prosper
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 62
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 1,549

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #53 on: June 27, 2014, 02:07:57 PM »

Thanks for the generous comments folks.

I would suggest that you try more turns before altering the sidethrust as the turn under power, with the higher torque, will open up and you may find that you will get more height withe right turns.
John, I shall follow your advice re. right thrust - for one I expect you're right (I mean correct!), and secondly it saves me the chore of un-soldering and resoldering the freewheel thingy to the propshaft, which has to be done if altering the thrustline.

I have had the chance to do a couple of things in the last few days. I messed around with acrylic inks trying to mix the hues I need. I think I've got the greys sorted out. The RAF dark green had the quality of looking almost black in some lights and viewing angles, but with bright, olive green highlights in sunshine. I have a candidate, but brushing the stuff onto paper doesn't necessarily give the same result as spraying it onto an imporous, curved surface.

I also started ticking off a checklist of piddly details. The exhaust stubs and the cooling-gill arrangement behind them are now done, and also the fairings which blend the wing leading edges into the fuselage. Both these tasks were toilsome, bespoke work, there seemed no way better than to make something that might fit, try to fit it, see where it rubbed, remove it, sand it, try again. . .

Stephen.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Hawker Tempest II, 1/24 scale rubber power.
Re: Hawker Tempest II, 1/24 scale rubber power.
Logged
Prosper
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 62
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 1,549

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #54 on: June 29, 2014, 03:30:05 PM »

Weeks ago, knowing that the Tempest had a blown canopy, I decided that this was the time to get to grips with a simple vac-moulder - but now with this project way over time I wondered if a plunge-moulding could be persuaded to adopt a bubble shape. The crude plunge-moulding frame I made for my Fw 190D has a sort of scissors-action so as you push the plug in, the plastic sheet folds up behind it to some extent. H/T Ljuba for this idea.

I shaped a canopy plug from pine. The smell of the wood was pleasant as I whittled away at it. You have to push pretty hard on the heated plastic and balsa would probably deform.

The answer was yes, you can get a sort of bubble from plunge moulding. After several attempts I got what I thought was a good effort. The Tempest had impressively minimalist canopy framing - I made the frame at the front of the canopy hood from styrene sheet (plasticard) to give the necessary rigidity, but glued it in wonky. It looks 'orrible but it'll have to do for now. I think I'll have to tackle a vac-box as a separate project in its own right, when I'm not building anything.

The second photo is meant to show the 'blown' plunge-moulded hood, but the camera focussed on the spinner - mind you it gives a good view of how far the spinner is offset by having added right-thrust.

Stephen.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Hawker Tempest II, 1/24 scale rubber power.
Re: Hawker Tempest II, 1/24 scale rubber power.
Logged
sparkle
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 17
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 1,342




Ignore
« Reply #55 on: June 29, 2014, 04:19:50 PM »

 Smiley looking good!  Grin
Logged
Pat D
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 5
Offline Offline

Ireland, Republic of Ireland, Republic of

Posts: 207




Ignore
« Reply #56 on: June 30, 2014, 04:02:04 AM »

Coming along really nice Stephen..
Logged
OZPAF
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 186
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 5,813



Ignore
« Reply #57 on: June 30, 2014, 06:16:49 AM »

Not bad at all Stephen- ie pretty good Cheesy
John
Logged
RolandD6
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 24
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 848




Ignore
« Reply #58 on: June 30, 2014, 09:21:48 PM »

Very impressive work Stephen.
Please keep on posting.

Paul
Logged
Prosper
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 62
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 1,549

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #59 on: July 01, 2014, 04:41:21 AM »

Thanks John, Paul, George, Ringo, Pat, sparkle Smiley.

Well, here's where I do my "Let us spray" gag. Anyone missing it this time will be sure to catch it sometime in the future as I repeat it again. . .and again. . .and again. . .

I benefitted from the large difference between airbrushing in summer compared to winter. Yesterday was about 18deg indoors and with some sunshine which added buckets of radiant heat. Airbrushing in winter, say 10-12deg indoors and a good deal of radiant heat loss to the cold outdoors, is a trickier business, at least I've found it so.

The warmth allowed me to progress much faster than I'd expected. I painted the white SEAC stripes and the Sky band around the rear fus., and masked these off. I also masked the national marking areas off. For masking I used thin paper sprayed with Sprayfix. There's always the tussle here between secure fixing to keep the mask in place, v. too-secure fixing that drags paint off when the mask is removed. I've been impressed by Sprayfix hitherto, but here I got it wrong. It wasn't just that the Sprayfix took paint with it when a mask was peeled off (it did, slightly, but my fault for proceeding before the paint was much more than touch-dry) but, it left some of itself behind, in the form of tiny rubbery dots - yuk. The whole point of Sprayfix is that it's supposed to stay put on the surface you've applied it to.

Notwithstanding the masking niggles, I got the whole underside blasted with my take on "medium sea grey", which touch-dried so quickly that I felt able to start larding on the "ocean grey" topsides. I'd already decided to use the airbrush as a spraygun, and go for an even, opaque finish regardless of weight.

I got the Ocean Grey on, and because of the masking issues, decided to hand-paint a lining of Dark Green where it meets the Ocean Grey.  The lining would be wide enough to allow an airbrushed infill of the main area without risking overspray onto the Ocean Grey. I would still use masks along the border between Dark Green and the light grey underside. Right? Well, in fact it did work, apart from a couple of faint oversprays due to inattention, not visible from any distance.

So to my amazement I got the great bulk of the paintwork done in one day. Not beautiful, but serviceable. I offered up the wing to the fus. in order to see if touching-up would be needed where colour areas meet, and to anticipate a few "Eeeeeeow" engine noises. Something was wrong - what?

I had transposed the green and the grey on the port wing. They was da wrong way round.

After jumping up and down making keening noises, then chewing a chairleg and making growling noises for a while, I reflected that here was my chance to see whether paint can be removed wholesale from aliphatic-coated balsa sheet without damaging the sheet. I used tepid water and kitchen paper. This worked OK, probably because the paint wasn't fully cured. With truly cured acrylic a stronger solvent would be needed, and this would presumably attack the aliphatic.

Tomorrow I'll respray the port wing.

Stephen.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Hawker Tempest II, 1/24 scale rubber power.
Re: Hawker Tempest II, 1/24 scale rubber power.
Logged
billdennis747
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 64
Online Online

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 4,200



Ignore
« Reply #60 on: July 01, 2014, 04:51:06 AM »

It wasn't just that the Sprayfix took paint with it when a mask was peeled off (it did, slightly, but my fault for proceeding before the paint was much more than touch-dry) but, it left some of itself behind, in the form of tiny rubbery dots - yuk. The whole point of Sprayfix is that it's supposed to stay put on the surface you've applied it to.

Lighter fuel on a tissue fetches it off. Charlie Newman told me that.
Bill
Logged
ILM Tarheel
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 9
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 202



Ignore
« Reply #61 on: July 01, 2014, 07:12:21 AM »

Windex, or any window cleaner with ammonia in it, is excellent for cleaning off water based acrylic paint. The ammonia is what does the trick. I've even restored paint brushes stiff with dried acrylic paint by soaking them in Windex. Also works with Pledge Future floor finish used as a clear coat. As a test, take a "clean" used brush and re-clean it using Windex and see how much more color washes out. I have used acrylic paint from many years building 1/72 scale plastic models (IPMS), the other part of my model airplane addiction. I've never tried it on a tissue or balsa surface, so I would suggest testing on a non-essential item first.

Jimmy J

Logged
Don McLellan
Titanium Member
*******

Kudos: 67
Offline Offline

Canada Canada

Posts: 2,464




Ignore
« Reply #62 on: July 01, 2014, 12:45:11 PM »

Transposing camo colours is what I do best.  However in my case I just had to throw the printed tissue away.

Looking forward to the finished Scheme A(?) paint work.

Don
Logged
Prosper
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 62
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 1,549

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #63 on: July 02, 2014, 12:42:56 PM »

"Type A" is right Don, except when you transpose colours on one wing, when it becomes "Type A/B Air Ministry Top Secret Scheme"; this scheme is known of only by the most expert and informed modellers Grin.

Bill, I took the butane I use in my gas soldering iron to be the same as lighter fluid, and tried a bit on acrylic paint. Paint unmoved. I tried a bit where Sprayfix tack was stuck to acrylic - the tack came off! Great tip, thanks.

Thanks for the ammonia tip Jimmy J. When I track down our ammonia window spray thingy I'll try that. If it doesn't attack the aliphatic coat on the balsa then that's another trick in the bag.

Another thing I tried as a result of my port wing fiasco was to use masks when spraying the green paint, as opposed to hand-lining the green as described above. In terms of time taken and fiddliness generally I think masks win, at least on fairly flat surfaces like wings. I'm not sure how getting them into place on complex and more curved surfaces would go though.

Despite Bill's tip reducing my anxiety about Sprayfix tack ending up on the wrong surface, I decided to paint the national insignia by hand. After a quick reckoning of all the paper discs and hoops of different diameters I'd need as masks to spray the roundels, and all the airbrush rinsings and paint-changings, I suddenly grew very fatigued Smiley. To misuse a famous phrase, I was "airbrushed out". I must admit too, that as a wannabe oil-painter, it doesn't take much persuasion for me to grab a brush and go freehand. I faintly marked an inner circle, and the outer circles were already defined by masks used when spraying the camo colours. All the other borders are painted freehand with reference to those two circles. I used a 000 brush. Within a few feet the markings are very obviously hand-painted - but then at that range this is very obviously a model! The most difficult bit of the hand painting was the transparency of the red, yellow and blue paints. They still need at least one more coat.

I'm always conscious at this stage that now we have a free flight model, and intricate finishing seems a doobious investment on something that might crash and burn at its first opportunity. If I learn to make dependable flyers then I guess I'll take more care with the detailed finishing.

Gluing the wing in is a big step. The link between the pendulum and the aileron pushrods is now inaccessible. You need access to the link to alter the aileron bias. I'm hoping the neutral aileron setting will prove okay, but if I need to bias them I plan to cut an access panel out of the belly to reach the link. The wing is fixed with PVA, so I hope I can melt it off with warm water if need be.

There's still an open-ended list of detailing and marking to do, but if weather and crop state allow, it's ready to fly again Smiley.

Couldn't resist a black-and-white (seems to be called grey scale nowadays) pic for that period feel.

Stephen.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Hawker Tempest II, 1/24 scale rubber power.
Re: Hawker Tempest II, 1/24 scale rubber power.
Logged
Yak 52
Titanium Member
*******

Kudos: 70
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 2,562


Jon Whitmore



Ignore
« Reply #64 on: July 02, 2014, 12:52:26 PM »

Superb!
It's hard to believe it's as small as it is considering all the details AND the pendulum  Cool
Seriously cool and congrats in order.

Jon
Logged
piecost
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 11
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 536



Ignore
« Reply #65 on: July 02, 2014, 12:55:43 PM »

It looks stunning. I don't know if it is a subtle effect of using very thin sheet, but it looks a lot more realistic than more solid foam models. I look forward to the video of it dog fighting with your FW190...
Logged
Don McLellan
Titanium Member
*******

Kudos: 67
Offline Offline

Canada Canada

Posts: 2,464




Ignore
« Reply #66 on: July 02, 2014, 03:06:57 PM »

Wow!!  Looks perfect!
Logged
Monz
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 152
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 1,231



Ignore
« Reply #67 on: July 02, 2014, 03:21:07 PM »

Fantastic Stephen! Look forward to a few vids.
Logged
sparkle
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 17
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 1,342




Ignore
« Reply #68 on: July 02, 2014, 04:26:19 PM »

 Cool Cool Cool Cheesy
Logged
Graiskye
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 19
Offline Offline

Canada Canada

Posts: 427




Ignore
« Reply #69 on: July 02, 2014, 04:26:45 PM »

 Stunning build Prosper. You are a recent addition to the forum since the last time I posted, and your builds are first rate. Very original and innovative as well.
I loved the way you built the Tempest, the wing was awesome, need to know... is this a plan that you drew up on your own, working from a plan in your head, or what? Just what is the story on this great design ?
 Thanks for sharing bud, look forward to your future builds.
-G.
Logged

"When I think of something monumentally witty, Ill let you know, till then you'll have to amuse yourselves."
Prosper
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 62
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 1,549

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #70 on: July 03, 2014, 01:26:59 PM »

Thanks for the kind words (and emoticons) folks - remember the 'camera flattery' factor, and remember that it has to fly to be worth anything - solid scale modellers could probably churn out much better than this in a week or two! Talking of solid models, I made a stand for this 'hollow' model, as I did for the Fw 190 preceeding it. Both of them have aerial masts sticking out underneath (haven't added this detail yet), and also a stand gets the model out of 'ground clutter', up where I feel it's a bit safer.

When you do something like transposing the wing camouflage colours, you know you're never going to do that again. Lesson learnt. So how come I got the underwing serials the wrong way round? I made a stencil, dragged the airbrush out, blasted away, did the other wing, took a look and immediately saw that the letters are supposed to be outboard, not inboard. Never even occurred to me to check - just knew that one had to be upside down relative to the other. Oh well, the next 'un'll be better finished. I was thinking, if this one flies at all I might build a couple or three more, be a Tempest specialist. Then I recalled that I also want to be an Fw 190 specialist, a Bf 109 specialist, a Boulton Paul Defiant specialist. . .have they discovered that elixir of youth yet?

Graiskye, yes, this is all out of my tortured mind. It's been an evolutionary process really, starting with a model that is a topic in the "Outdoor Peanut" forum on HPA - it's called "1/24 Percival Mew Gull" or somesuch. I would hate to reread that - shucks, I was sooo naive back then in 2012 Grin. Then I made an Andreasson BA4-B, then a 109, then an Fw 190. I spend far more time pondering and mulling and researching than building. If I'm doing some household chore or fixing the roof, I'm probably thinking about how to do X or Y in my model. Still masses to learn, but it seems that a protocol may be emerging, a methodology that may (stress MAY) work for modelling many or most stressed-skin originals, s'long as you're happy with heavy models.

piecost, your comment re. foam models interests me. I've never seen one close up, nor do I know how heavy they are. There must be some way that people seal the surface prior to painting I suppose. I don't know if a foam model can carry sharp trailing edges, or cutouts such as cartridge ejector chutes for example. In fact I know nothing about them. If they can be made nearly as light as the same-sized stick-and-tissue rubber model, and if they're quite easy to build, then I may look into the subject.

Stephen.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Hawker Tempest II, 1/24 scale rubber power.
Re: Hawker Tempest II, 1/24 scale rubber power.
Logged
billdennis747
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 64
Online Online

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 4,200



Ignore
« Reply #71 on: July 03, 2014, 01:45:07 PM »

Stephen
There have been some very good foam models indeed and with similar appearance to your finishes, although the details would have to be from different materials. The two big drawbacks are that they usually feature single surface wings (I'm sure you would be hollowing) and the sheer horribleness of working with foam. I think you have to like the material you are working with.
Bill
Logged
billdennis747
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 64
Online Online

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 4,200



Ignore
« Reply #72 on: July 03, 2014, 01:48:30 PM »

Here is an example
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=foam+models+david+deadman&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=7pa1U_v4CYSlPdiVgcgJ&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=673#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=1J_vaQ0OYgZV_M%253A%3BA2Ml60-fjNjkzM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.freeflightsupplies.co.uk%252Fimages%252Fkate.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.freeflightsupplies.co.uk%252Fpublications.htm%3B300%3B166

and there is a book by David Deadman, Pete Smart et al
Logged
Prosper
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 62
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 1,549

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #73 on: July 03, 2014, 02:47:46 PM »

Thanks for the link and the insights Bill. There's even a foam Tempest II on that site you link to - an interesting comparison. The image is very small but I think I can see that it has an enlarged 2-D tailplane and a 2-D fin/rudder, and the wing looks thin. This could be because foam is heavy, or perhaps it's a pistachio - no idea. What's foam anyway, is it polystyrene foam (EPS), polythene foam, polyurethane foam? I expect I should buy the book but that's a step too far for my impecuniosity, to invent or mangle a word.

. . .and the sheer horribleness of working with foam. I think you have to like the material you are working with.

Quite. I have to say I'm very prejudiced - I'll happily rush up an EPS form in order to mould balsa wood, but I wouldn't allow a speck of EPS to appear in a flying balsa model (yet I'll allow solid plastic such as the toothbrush-handle nav lights on this model). A bit daft, I know. I'd prefer an all-foam model over a balsa model with foam parts.

Stephen.
Logged
piecost
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 11
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 536



Ignore
« Reply #74 on: July 03, 2014, 03:03:32 PM »

Stephen,

I should have been more clear with my comment about more solid models; I was thinking of some of the R/C ARTF type models which look distinctively toy like even when the shape is correct.

As Bill posted, excellent results have achieved using blue foam (Floormate 200). These were typically indoor rubber models; often multi-engined subjects. I got the impression that they could be built as light or lighter than traditional construction models and that the thin curved plate wings made them more efficient than stick and tissue models.

I have dabbled with blue foam, but am not an expert. The material can be made as thin as you want, using a hotwire or by sanding, but is much less stiff than balsa. A thin trailing edge is easily damaged. Cutouts in the skin would invite cracks, but I guess a tissue patch could be applied locally. Hollow wings could be made. But, I don't think that the foam would withstand the rough and tumble of outdoor use. A balsa leading edge would be vital.

Foam models tend to feature a soft matt looking finish, but I have seen models covered in tissue. Applying the tissue without wrinkles or warping the structure sounds tricky. It is straightforward to hotwire sheets to less than 1mm thick, so perhaps your method of finishing balsa could be adapted. A surface finish being applied to the block of foam before the sheet is hotwired off.

I have played with 0.5mm and 1mm depron; it bends into single curvature stress skinned wings really well using a root and tip rib to hold the shape. I made a wing for a foam He162 in this way, using masking tape to cover the leading edge joint. I could not get the thin depron to negociate the leading edge radius without creasing. See attached photo. This material is rather heavy, IIRC about the same mass/area as paper. The thin depron has a relatively thick skin compared to the thicker material; it is in effect a sandwhich material. Thicker depron can be molded into double curvature shapes such as fuselage shells.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Hawker Tempest II, 1/24 scale rubber power.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8   Go Up
Print
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!