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Author Topic: HOW TO: Remove tail cone from outrunner EDF motor  (Read 1394 times)
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artbykenb
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« on: June 24, 2014, 11:10:28 AM »

I have a QXMotor 2822/??00kv (outrunner motor case scratched up a bit) motor rescued from a demolished 70mm EDF.  I want to remove the aluminum tail cone from the motor but can't see how. Does anybody have some info that would help me? With apologies to HobbyKing, I've attached a photo of a similar motor.
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HOW TO: Remove tail cone from outrunner EDF motor
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Ken Barclay
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Konrad
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« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2014, 05:34:29 PM »

If the motor is build like most of the ones I have, that tail cone in integral with the rear rotating bell cap. You could make a new flat rear bell cap and replace the coned one.  But removing (cutting off) the cone from the existing one will result in the shaft and magnets not being connected, kind of a problem.   Roll Eyes

All the best,
Konrad
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Cut it twice and it's still too short!
artbykenb
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« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2014, 06:46:41 PM »

I gave up. I was trying to salvage a brushless motor and apparently, I can't.

Thanks anyway. :-)
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Ken Barclay
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Konrad
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« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2014, 01:31:24 PM »

I assumed that you wanted to change the configuration, get rid of the cone.

Are you trying to just take apart the motor to replace the shaft, bearings or true the bell to the shaft? You should still be able to do this level of maintenance. There are two set screws at the bottom of those holes. These and the snap ring at the front are what hold the motor together.

I don't like that bullet cone as it doesn't allow for proper cooling of the windings (not enough airflow).

All the best,
Konrad
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Cut it twice and it's still too short!
Pit
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« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2014, 02:17:00 PM »

Just curious Art, but were you able to remove the bell/tailcone from the rest?  The hole(s) in the side of the cone gives access to the setscrew(s).  Once you get the spinning parts off the rest, you can see how the cone is attached to the bell.

The EDF motors I've seen with a cone (do NOT know what make they were) were mostly on Wemotec and Schuebeler fans and these were VERY high powered units and are separate from the bell (the Schuebeler cone attaches to the motor mount housing).  They show no signs of overheating whatsoever.  The access holes and the opening at the rear of the cone have proven sufficient for cooling airflow.  Of course, these guys make sure that they keep within the recommended limits of the equipment they use.

I'll be at the Jet Power trade show this coming weekend.  I'll make it a point to find out more about these coned motors.
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Konrad
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« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2014, 03:00:24 PM »

Many EDF units have rear fairings to smooth airflow in the duct. The outrunners as shown are trying to emulate these fairing. The issue with  the motor Art shows is that the two access holes are the sum total of cooling area for air to enter the windings. The rear center line hole is blocked by the motor shaft. Again no aid to cooling.

I've cut cooling holes at an oblique angle into that cone to try to force air into the windings. I will say that I prefer inrunner motors in EDF applications as the windings are against the motor body for better heat transfer.

Let us know what the big boys have to say about these low end coned outrunner EDF motor.

All the best,
Konrad
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Re: HOW TO: Remove tail cone from outrunner EDF motor
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Cut it twice and it's still too short!
Konrad
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« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2014, 05:25:35 PM »


I'll be at the Jet Power trade show this coming weekend.  I'll make it a point to find out more about these coned motors.
Pit,
Are you able to give us a followup report?

All the best,
Konrad
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Cut it twice and it's still too short!
artbykenb
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« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2014, 10:48:19 PM »

I've given up trying to remove the "tail cone".
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Ken Barclay
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Konrad
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« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2014, 12:34:43 PM »

You are wise.

What I now want to learn, is the cone as restrictive to the cooling of the windings as I have analyzed.

Pit mentioned that he was going to discuss this with some industry leaders. If he has I'd like to learn the outcome of his talks.

All the best,
Konrad
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Cut it twice and it's still too short!
artbykenb
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« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2014, 02:20:19 PM »

Konrad, it appears to me that you're correct about the restricted cooling - BUT. But these motor/cone are commonly used in EDF applications and the cone apparently makes no or insignificant problem(s) as to cooling. What the Huh?
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Ken Barclay
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Konrad
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« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2014, 03:43:26 PM »

Konrad, it appears to me that you're correct about the restricted cooling - BUT. But these motor/cone are commonly used in EDF applications and the cone apparently makes no or insignificant problem(s) as to cooling. What the Huh?
That is not the case. One can get much better life and/or power out of the winding if one adds cooling holes (fan) in the cone.  The cone was an attempt to aid airflow through the aft duct. It was done to emulate the aft fairing seen with inrunner setups.

I've done this mod of adding cooling holes to the aft cone. While it worked and worked fine it really was kind of like gold plating the trash heap. Rebalancing the rotating can was a bear! I'm of the opinion that one should start with a quality inrunner for performance EDF applications. This is because the windings are to the outside of the case to afford better heat transfer to the air stream.

As you know setting up a power system is all about controlling the heat!

Why is the cone an issue in your application? I would think that the Kv rating of an EDF motor would be more of a limitation for its flexibility/suitability to be used in other application.

All the best,
Konrad
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Cut it twice and it's still too short!
artbykenb
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« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2014, 08:09:37 PM »

I was trying to remove the cone to salvage the motor for use in a propeller airplane. Not a big deal - seemed a waste to not use it.
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Ken Barclay
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Konrad
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« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2014, 10:57:32 AM »

I was trying to remove the cone to salvage the motor for use in a propeller airplane. Not a big deal - seemed a waste to not use it.
Understood.

I fail to see why the cone would preclude the motor being used to drive a prop. The application of a pressure cowl should aid immensely to the cooling of the motor. (This is a good idea no matter the motor configuration.) Like I said earlier the high Kv rating of most EDF motors would give me more concern that the cone in a prop application.

I'm still interested in what Pit may have learned at the trade show.

All the best,
Konrad
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Cut it twice and it's still too short!
fred
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« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2014, 10:38:43 PM »

Those Gold coloured motors (with the cones) are Lo end gizmos, starting at 10$.. which pretty well sums it all up nicely.
 Do take issue with the inrunner perceptions though.
Currently ..Serious.. edf  (Multi K watts) power is derived from Outrunner motors.
 More Torque/power handling due in part to decidedly better cooling/heat rejection than an Inrunner.. Any inrunner.
 Time and tech move on, inexorably it seems.
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