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Leonard.
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« on: August 31, 2014, 09:47:29 AM »

Hi Guys, Can you give me this project?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNJy3AR7uzE
can you teach me how do you make a ministick? Thanks
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lincoln
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« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2014, 03:25:43 PM »

Here's an article about Bob Meuser's No Non Cents limited penny plane. It's larger than a mini stick, but many of the same techniques are used:
www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2294852
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Leonard.
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« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2014, 05:34:45 AM »

Here's an article about Bob Meuser's No Non Cents limited penny plane. It's larger than a mini stick, but many of the same techniques are used:
www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2294852


thankyou very much Lincoln but I need the projects of the kickstarter, do you know where i can find them? <3
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frash
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« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2014, 09:30:06 AM »

For the "FLOAT" video by Ben Saks, try http://vimeo.com/68616979

Fred Rash
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Leonard.
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« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2014, 03:54:40 PM »

For the "FLOAT" video by Ben Saks, try http://vimeo.com/68616979

Fred Rash


Thanks but i need the template of this project.
thankyou
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Maxout
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« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2014, 04:22:43 PM »

I think that model was designed by Ben Saks. There were plans online at one time, but I can't find them anymore. It is a simplified Poonker (Romash's design--plans available online at a multitude of locations), and the only simplifications I know of were these:
1. Flat wing and stab-no dihedral
2. Straight tip plate outlines rather than curved.
3. No standoffs on the motorstick.

You could contact Ben at http://www.bensaks.com/, but my advice would be to build the Poonker, as it's a better design. Ben's design is oriented toward being dead simple, so it won't fly as well.
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Leonard.
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« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2014, 04:41:19 AM »

I think that model was designed by Ben Saks. There were plans online at one time, but I can't find them anymore. It is a simplified Poonker (Romash's design--plans available online at a multitude of locations), and the only simplifications I know of were these:
1. Flat wing and stab-no dihedral
2. Straight tip plate outlines rather than curved.
3. No standoffs on the motorstick.

You could contact Ben at http://www.bensaks.com/, but my advice would be to build the Poonker, as it's a better design. Ben's design is oriented toward being dead simple, so it won't fly as well.

thanks i can try the Poonker.
 Grin But this is my first model can you teach me how to make a ministick?
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Maxout
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« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2014, 07:26:24 AM »

Bernard,

 My advice would be to watch Ben's video and build a Poonker alongside it. Anything I tell you really isn't going to be as good as what's in that video. If you have specific questions I might be able to help, but in general that video is the most comprehensive resource yet produced for small indoor models.

Some other items worth pursuing: go to indoornewsandviews.com and look up the Hobby Shopper EZB article (It's in the Best of INAV file under "downloads"). It's the best written documentation available for indoor models, and will cover a lot of the less than clear points. I think that same file should have some articles on covering so that you can learn to use plastic covering, since the condenser paper Ben used is more scarce, heavier, and harder to use than polymicro/super ultrafilm.

You can get a lot of the specialty stuff like bearings and covering from Ray Harlan: http://www.indoorspecialties.com/
I don't know what the shipping situation is to Italy, but you might want to email him first and figure that part out. Mike Woodhouse (freeflightsupplies.co.uk) has a good selection of the basic indoor stuff as well, including OS film covering. As for balsa, you'll want to do some digging around and locate some indoor fliers in your country (Italy does have an active F1D community) who can point you in the direction of what they're using. The only consistent source I know of for indoor balsa right now is Nick Aikman (Green-man here on HPA). He's expensive, but his product is well worth the cost. If you order balsa from him, you get exactly what you order--no waste, and no shipping damage because he has the best balsa in the world and packs it carefully).
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Leonard.
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« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2014, 09:57:49 AM »

Bernard,

 My advice would be to watch Ben's video and build a Poonker alongside it. Anything I tell you really isn't going to be as good as what's in that video. If you have specific questions I might be able to help, but in general that video is the most comprehensive resource yet produced for small indoor models.

Some other items worth pursuing: go to indoornewsandviews.com and look up the Hobby Shopper EZB article (It's in the Best of INAV file under "downloads"). It's the best written documentation available for indoor models, and will cover a lot of the less than clear points. I think that same file should have some articles on covering so that you can learn to use plastic covering, since the condenser paper Ben used is more scarce, heavier, and harder to use than polymicro/super ultrafilm.

You can get a lot of the specialty stuff like bearings and covering from Ray Harlan: http://www.indoorspecialties.com/
I don't know what the shipping situation is to Italy, but you might want to email him first and figure that part out. Mike Woodhouse (freeflightsupplies.co.uk) has a good selection of the basic indoor stuff as well, including OS film covering. As for balsa, you'll want to do some digging around and locate some indoor fliers in your country (Italy does have an active F1D community) who can point you in the direction of what they're using. The only consistent source I know of for indoor balsa right now is Nick Aikman (Green-man here on HPA). He's expensive, but his product is well worth the cost. If you order balsa from him, you get exactly what you order--no waste, and no shipping damage because he has the best balsa in the world and packs it carefully).



dear
I have all the bare minimum from paper modelspan to balsa 
I have about 50 euro balsa
I have 30 bearings, bearings, torsimetro, tweezers of all sorts, microfilm, depron, uhu hart, 3M glue, steel wire, balsa 0.5 tablets, sandpaper 40,50,60,70,80,90,100,150,320,620, 1000,1200ecc., activated with cyanoacrylate, cut balsa, but I do not have a size rubber.
I have a lot of material.
Nick is my friend
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Maxout
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« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2014, 07:30:44 AM »

You'll need to do something about your rubber situation. The new Super Sport rubber is quite good. I've done over 7 minutes in my living room with a ministick powered by SS rubber, so it is definitely well up the energy charts.

You'll need a rubber stripper as well. Ray Harlan sells an outstandingly high quality stripper, but you can also pick up used units such as the Oppegard, Wayne Johnson, Leeson, etc, and possibly for a lower price. Any of those will serve you well. I've heard very, very good things about the Johnson stripper, but it's a rather scarce product and it might take a while to locate one.
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Leonard.
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« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2014, 09:54:57 AM »

i have a kilo of rubber for f1b but i cut it with a blade.
now I can not afford this  http://www.indoorspecialties.com/index1.html
Italy is in crisis  Wink
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Maxout
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« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2014, 10:41:39 AM »

Well at this point you have two options. One is get someone else to strip rubber for you (preferably someone in Italy so that the rubber isn't in its shipping container for too long), and the other is to search out a used rubber stripper. With a little searching, it should be possible to at least locate something useable for half the price of a new Harlan unit. I've seen a few of those go for as little as $90 US, but that is obviously not the going rate.

This thread might give you a few leads: http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=1190.0
The Ciapola stripper has occasionally been available new for US $90, although I would question whether that is the current rate. Marcel Lavoie's design is documented in this issue of INAV on page 30: http://indoornewsandviews.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/inav-114.pdf
That design is only a temporary solution, as it will not give the level of accuracy you need for anything beyond living room test flights. It will get you in the air, of course, but that is about all it will do.
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Leonard.
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« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2014, 11:14:27 AM »

Well at this point you have two options. One is get someone else to strip rubber for you (preferably someone in Italy so that the rubber isn't in its shipping container for too long), and the other is to search out a used rubber stripper. With a little searching, it should be possible to at least locate something useable for half the price of a new Harlan unit. I've seen a few of those go for as little as $90 US, but that is obviously not the going rate.

This thread might give you a few leads: http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=1190.0
The Ciapola stripper has occasionally been available new for US $90, although I would question whether that is the current rate. Marcel Lavoie's design is documented in this issue of INAV on page 30: http://indoornewsandviews.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/inav-114.pdf
That design is only a temporary solution, as it will not give the level of accuracy you need for anything beyond living room test flights. It will get you in the air, of course, but that is about all it will do.

i can't buy this but i can make  this for the moment for the ministick https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4cj5a_b-z8 thanks very much Maxout
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« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2014, 07:58:56 PM »

Maxout's advice is golden!  Watch the Float mini-stick and the Float penny plane videos but build from the Poonker plans.  Get some Ultra-film rather than using the condenser paper if you want it to float.  Use a micrometer and be sure to sand the prop blades down to the thickness recommended.  As long as you're using a thickness gauge, check all your spars and ribs and everything you cut.  Weigh them all too.  Cut several, pick the lightest and the stiffest.  

I'd been building mini-sticks on and off for years, but I learned a tremendous amount from the Float mini-stick video.  And yes, I used the Poonker plan for my build.  It's the best flying mini I've ever built, best I've ever seen too.  If I can build it, anyone can build it!

Try to stick with weights and sizes of wood described on the Poonker plan.  My early Poonkers are heavy at around 0.6 grams but they still turn in very respectable times and fly better than anything I've ever built or seen.  Plus, they're much less fragile than the 0.46 g that I did finally build and quickly destroyed.  Another good thing to read is the Hobby Shop EZB article by Larry Coslick http://www.indoorduration.com/INAVHobbyShopper.htm.  This article will give lots of good information on how to use hobby shop wood, find the lightest sheets and then find the lightest portions of those sheets.  It'll also teach you some great building techniques and it talks about stiffness vs. weight.

I do have a Harlan rubber stripper.  I'd be happy to slice you some rubber and send it to you for nothing more than the postage.  But as has been said, if you can find a local source you'll be better off.  Otherwise, PM me.

Dave
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Leonard.
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« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2014, 03:29:54 AM »

Maxout's advice is golden!  Watch the Float mini-stick and the Float penny plane videos but build from the Poonker plans.  Get some Ultra-film rather than using the condenser paper if you want it to float.  Use a micrometer and be sure to sand the prop blades down to the thickness recommended.  As long as you're using a thickness gauge, check all your spars and ribs and everything you cut.  Weigh them all too.  Cut several, pick the lightest and the stiffest.  

I'd been building mini-sticks on and off for years, but I learned a tremendous amount from the Float mini-stick video.  And yes, I used the Poonker plan for my build.  It's the best flying mini I've ever built, best I've ever seen too.  If I can build it, anyone can build it!

Try to stick with weights and sizes of wood described on the Poonker plan.  My early Poonkers are heavy at around 0.6 grams but they still turn in very respectable times and fly better than anything I've ever built or seen.  Plus, they're much less fragile than the 0.46 g that I did finally build and quickly destroyed.  Another good thing to read is the Hobby Shop EZB article by Larry Coslick http://www.indoorduration.com/INAVHobbyShopper.htm.  This article will give lots of good information on how to use hobby shop wood, find the lightest sheets and then find the lightest portions of those sheets.  It'll also teach you some great building techniques and it talks about stiffness vs. weight.

I do have a Harlan rubber stripper.  I'd be happy to slice you some rubber and send it to you for nothing more than the postage.  But as has been said, if you can find a local source you'll be better off.  Otherwise, PM me.

Dave




Thanks guys i have rubber for ministick for the moment for f1D, F1M,F1R my teacher CUT the rubber with his rubber. I have microfilm
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« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2015, 11:19:20 PM »

has any built ben saks plane or the pooker? IF so how long does it fly? Also I intermediate builder wonder, trying to get better flights. I was wondering what kind of things people buy in order to make a advanced plane.  So far i have  been using mylar film, and 3/32 rubber with the blatter 40 plane. i also used ikra propeller assembly.

Thanks,

Marcus
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« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2015, 09:31:02 PM »

Mark, the answer to your question is really dependent on the event(s) you are building for and flying.  That said, if you really want to maximize performance, I can't say enough about building a great propeller.  The prop is the link to the rubber energy source and the better and more efficient it is, the bigger the number on the stopwatch.  I have personally seen some pretty sketchy models fly very well with a good propeller.  Best of all, you don't have to buy much to get a good prop.  Learn to plank or carve a pitch block and camber form for a prop of given pitch, and once you are able to consistently good results, you are set to go.  If you want to spend a few dollars, Mike Kirda at propblocks.com uses a bandsaw with a special jig to cut helical pitch blocks.  They are very nice and worth their price. 

Along with a prop, almost equally important is a good thrust bearing.  Ray Harlan makes an excellent bearing and I think it safe to say that almost all serious fliers in the US and overseas are using them on all but the absolute lightest of models (the 250mg EZB for example).  You can also make a pigtail bearing from some music wire, and those work well too.  Whichever bearing you choose, make sure to get some small diameter (1/16" or so) Teflon tubing for thrust washers.  These can also be punched from Teflon sheet and drilled. 

So before delving much further into materials, if you are serious about indoor, learn to build a great propeller.  The Ikara prop you flying now performs well enough, for what it is, but wait until you build an F1L prop, 14" in dimeter, weighing less than 300mg, and turning around 100RPM or so.  Then you will see performance.

Again, learn to build a great prop.  Once you do that, then you can dive into any level of craziness with exotic materials and what not all day long.  But I guarantee an okay model with a great prop will outfly a great model with an ok prop any day of the week.  The best of course is a great model, built well, with a great prop.

Hope that gives you some direction to head in as you progress 

 Chris
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mark6amal
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« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2015, 12:46:34 AM »

Thanks!
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kiteshark
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« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2015, 09:18:51 PM »

As you've been told, building a Poonker while following the Float instructions is a great way to go.  I'd build a few Mini-Sticks but when I saw the Float video I had to have one.  As you found, no plans.  But I'd been eyeing the Poonker plans which had no instructions.  Not knowing why they were so similar, I figured I could build one with the other.  I had built a few Mini-Sticks before but the Poonker turned out to be the best I've ever built before or since.  I've made several since them and they are consistently the best Mini's I've ever built.

If you've never done much indoor stuff before, the Hobby Shopper EZB http://www.indoorduration.com/INAVHobbyShopper.htm has lots of good technique information in it, even if it is for a much larger plane. 

If you pay attention to wood selection, spar strength, good glue joints with proper glue thinning and good covering technique, you'll be amazed at what you can build.  Also read up on tuning.  My first handful of planes didn't fly right off the bench but with proper building techniques and  tuning, they all worked eventually.

Read up on using wood glue for some joints and airplane cement for others.  This way you can dissolve one joint without dissolving the other to adjust things.

Dave
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