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Author Topic: Retro Pattern Ship "Corona" for Electric Build-  (Read 2516 times)
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Sundance12
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MAAC #25680, VE4BDF (amateur radio callsign)

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« on: August 31, 2014, 03:13:50 PM »

It has been a long time since I posted a build, so here goes. Up on the board is a experimental project in S&T. It is a small Pattern Ship Design following typical features found in the late 70's patter ships. Low wing, thin airfoil, long moments, and flying fish styling. I will be using a Park 280 Outrunner Motor and a 2S1P battery or perhaps a 3S1P cell of about 800mah.
GWS micro servos and receiver, 18A speed controller. Simple 4 channel setup with no landing gear.

I think I am going to stringer it and then tissue the fuselage. Perhaps remove some structure inside that will lighten things up a bit.


Shall be named "Corona".



Bruce
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Retro Pattern Ship "Corona" for Electric Build-
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« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2014, 08:38:34 PM »

Interesting idea Bruce. It should fly well.
John
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« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2014, 08:10:57 AM »

Further progress is being made on this aircraft and an installation of the Park 280 motor was tested. Stringer and former construction on a keel base are interesting and this allowed me to sheet between each former and stringer. This technique is not for the faint of heart, it's tedious but the results are gratifying with very arced and curved surfaces. I will continue to sheet up to aft of the wing saddle and then see how things are if I am going to sheet more or just stringer the rest to the tail.
I have begun to remove some internal structure that has been replaced by skin structure, it remains very light.

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Re: Retro Pattern Ship "Corona" for Electric Build-
Re: Retro Pattern Ship "Corona" for Electric Build-
Re: Retro Pattern Ship "Corona" for Electric Build-
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« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2014, 11:23:01 AM »

I have to ask why you went this way? I assume this is your own design and that you aren’t constrained by a kit.

The classic way to deal with this is planking, it allows for much the same shapes. But has the added benefit of fibers running for far greater distances (read added strength). True it can be almost as tedious as the fill method.

My understanding is that fill came as a result of kits like the Guillow rubber band free flight being converted to Control line. As the light free flight model needed support for the engine it was easier to add fill than to have the modeler cut down the formers for the thickness of the planking and plank across 3 or more formers.

It looks like you are planning the sheet the rear half. I'd recommend stringers if you aren't too concerned to make the ship look like a shrunken down 70's pattern missile.

You might want to look at using the covering as a way to make the nice filet fin. It does save weight. Sorry this doesn't show up so well with the transparent covering I used.

StevensAero had a very nice kit in this class. I will say that weight needed to be managed carefully. Also for some trick of size the control surfaces need to be oversize. The ailerons look like they are close to 2 times oversized. She has good control authority and is not touchy even using GWS servos.
http://www.stevensaero.com/StevensAero-Dystraction-Electric-RC-Airplane-Parkflyer-Pattern-SA-KIT-DYS.html

Looking good and good luck with the project.

All the best,
Konrad
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Re: Retro Pattern Ship "Corona" for Electric Build-
Re: Retro Pattern Ship "Corona" for Electric Build-
« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 01:12:20 PM by Konrad » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2014, 01:35:41 PM »

I have to ask why you went this way? I assume this is your own design and that you aren’t constrained by a kit.


Hi Konrad

This is not a kit and I am constrained by my own ego, grin. However, I was initially going to forgo the Fill Planking up front and have it all tissue covered however, I do like the strength advantages that the planking affords as well as the lines. I will just use stringer and tissue in the aft sections of the fuselage right through into the fin. I had considered more traditional planking with out the stringers and that came after I stared to use stringers, so I met the problem half way. This airplane is fully make it up as I go along, no kit, barely any plans, and the wing and stab structure have yet to be determined. Thanks for the link and images in a like class airplane, and I was trying to capture that 70's style fast pattern missile look that was so popular then. I am learning a lot in this build, it will be a move for me into more formal electric airplanes from nitro, heaven forbid... I am still a IC engine operator at heart.

cheers

Bruce


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« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2014, 03:47:10 PM »

I am learning a lot in this build, it will be a move for me into more formal electric airplanes from nitro, heaven forbid... I am still a IC engine operator at heart.

cheers

Bruce



I more than understand! While I have forsaken I.C. in my ships since 1993 I'm well aware of their siren song. My 15 minutes of hobby fame is that I built the engines that won the USA Nats in 1989 for FAI F3D Pylon.

In time I think you will come to agree that in the under 2Kw class it is hard to make a rational1 case  for glow engines.

1Not that anybody can make a rational case for our toys!  Roll Eyes

All the best,
Konrad
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« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2014, 04:00:43 PM »



My understanding is that fill came as a result of kits like the Guillow rubber band free flight being converted to Control line. As the light free flight model needed support for the engine it was easier to add fill than to have the modeler cut down the formers for the thickness of the planking and plank across 3 or more formers.




What came first, the Guillows or the Stahl  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Lovely model so far Bruce, I love the old style patternships.
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« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2014, 04:31:57 PM »

I'm not an historian so the publishing dates of Earl Stahl, Paul Guillow, Carl Goldberg and other is lost to me.

Now a limitation of planking is that one would want to work alternating over the center line to control warps (twists in the fuselage). This can be an issue with the half former and keel type structures if they are left pinned to the table.

All the best,
Konrad
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« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2014, 02:29:14 PM »

Thanks for all the interest readers.
Some further progress on the fuselage, installing stringers and test fitting existing radio gear. I removed the motor, and am in the process of sorting out pushrods before stringering the bottom half of the fuselage. Planking fill in the nose section and some of the upper canopy region is done and I am happy with my handiwork.
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Re: Retro Pattern Ship "Corona" for Electric Build-
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« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2014, 09:00:45 PM »

Ahh! Looking good.
John
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« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2014, 09:09:07 AM »

So I am at a stage of choosing what pushrods to use with normal micro servos in this thing. I am considering traditional sticks with music wire ends. Anybody got some experience with pushrods for small lightweight models?
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« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2014, 10:29:55 AM »

I think balsa push rods would be fine particularly if braced.
Carbon rods would also work well but would need to be braced , and this may only need to be an oversized outer tube. i have used rolled paper tubes on very small models to support the small carbon rod push rods. I used this approach on a 20" wingspan Fox andit worked very well with minimum friction and was very solid.

John
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« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2014, 12:04:42 PM »

I really like Pull Pull setups for everything other than ailerons. I use spider wire or Kevlar  as the thread.

If I need a pull push setup I like carbon pultruded tubes. They are a lot lighter and stiffer than rod.

For torque tubes to drive ailerons I (now) use aluminum tubing with wire fittings JB welded (epoxy) into the hollow of the tube.

I like to use push rods from Parkzone models for my bigger Park fliers to make direct connection from the aileron servo (dual) to the aileron.

Here are some of my less that perfect setups. I post these to help you avoid traps I've fallen into. (I apologize for sending you to RCG. I have yet to port over all my pearls of wisdom  Roll Eyes )
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12059857&postcount=96
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12889828&postcount=122

I discuss some of the issue I've had with Bowden tubes in the first 5 or so pages of this thread.
http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=11737.25

All the best,
Konrad
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« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2014, 10:13:25 PM »

Further progress on this design. Completed the fuselage stringers right to the tail. Also completed the rudder and also decided to use carbon pushrods from a foamy flat airplane and extended them in the middle with a 6 inch length of dowel. This worked out well and the whole thing including servos is quite light. Some sanding to smooth things out and form a more pleasing surface and this thing will be ready for a covering. I will be using a light silkspan and Varathane Diamond Cote water based finish that I was very pleased with on a Control Line Stunter that I built in the past.
 
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Re: Retro Pattern Ship "Corona" for Electric Build-
Re: Retro Pattern Ship "Corona" for Electric Build-
Re: Retro Pattern Ship "Corona" for Electric Build-
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« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2014, 04:43:05 AM »

Nifty SD. Now for the wings.
John
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« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2014, 09:35:36 PM »

Further progress on this build. The top view of the fuselage, and I was happy enough with the straightness. Beginning stages of covering with medium weight silkspan and Varathane finish. Also showing a covered rudder. Later, the covered fuselage with one or two coats of finish. The attached rudder and covered fin. A final shot of the whole fuselage. I will be covering the front section with some silkspan. The weights are well within reason for this build and I am quite happy with the weight condition.
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Re: Retro Pattern Ship "Corona" for Electric Build-
Re: Retro Pattern Ship "Corona" for Electric Build-
Re: Retro Pattern Ship "Corona" for Electric Build-
Re: Retro Pattern Ship "Corona" for Electric Build-
Re: Retro Pattern Ship "Corona" for Electric Build-
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« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2014, 07:56:32 AM »

Bruce,
I've been following this with much more than a passing interest as pattern aircraft/flying are at the top of my rc interests.  The lines are reminding me strongly of Wayne Ulery's UA-1 (IIRC, that's what it was called) - one of the largest pattern planes of the time with a HUGE wing.
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« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2014, 08:08:41 AM »

Bruce,
I've been following this with much more than a passing interest as pattern aircraft/flying are at the top of my rc interests.  The lines are reminding me strongly of Wayne Ulery's UA-1 (IIRC, that's what it was called) - one of the largest pattern planes of the time with a HUGE wing.

Hi Pit
Thanks for your input however the wing will not be the traditional swept wing that that airplane promotes, but a more usual double taper type. I am about to start on the stab and that will give a hint to the plan of the wing. Glad that you are enjoying my progress.

Bruce
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« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2014, 09:44:57 AM »

I "just" happened to glance at my CURARE... Roll Eyes
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« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2014, 02:44:21 PM »

I have a fondness for the triple tapper wing like the Mach One. (OK. I'm showing my age  Roll Eyes ) That is both the LE and TE are swept and the thickness of the wing gets thinner as one goes out to the tips. Many sport planes actually allow the wing tips to get thicker as measured by percentage of  wing chord. I like how the models will thiner tip roll and snap. That snap can be a concern for the novice flier if they slow down the ship too much on final.

I have to ask why the covering doesn't extend all the way to the nose? Is it actually lighter to fill with paint than to allow the silkspan to fill the wood grain?  In my experience I have found that the covering actually makes a lighter and stronger (fiber reinforced) surface. I also like to use a torn edge at the transition zone as it makes it a lot easier (lighter) going  from whatever to silkspan/tissue.

All the best,
Konrad
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« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2014, 01:20:37 PM »

The nose section has now been covered in the normal manner. Image to follow.
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« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2014, 01:45:59 PM »

The nose section has now been covered in the normal manner. Image to follow.

I have to ask; Is there anything "normal" about the hobby?  Roll Eyes

I've always said there is more than one way to skin a cat. The same is true of the hobby. There is more than one correct (normal) way to do things. Most processes have advantages and limitation. Finding the balance that works best for any one particular set of constraints is the challenge. That is the benefit of user generated content, we can share knowledge free from commercial meddling.

All the best,
Konrad
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« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2014, 10:05:41 PM »

Quote
I have to ask; Is there anything "normal" about the hobby?  Roll Eyes

This explains why I like this hobby so much. "Normal" has never been a word used in connection with me. Grin
Mike
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« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2014, 10:11:50 PM »

Quote
I have to ask; Is there anything "normal" about the hobby?  Roll Eyes

This explains why I like this hobby so much. "Normal" has never been a word used in connection with me. Grin
Mike

Jeeze, Normal, like the way you normally put silkspan on model airplanes...
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« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2014, 12:32:39 AM »

Normal or not, your work is very nice. I like everything about it. It's stick and tissue, it's a vintage pattern style, very cool! It makes me want to get back into stick and tissue. Hmmm, maybe a P-40.....
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