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Author Topic: Starduster 350 and Orbiteer  (Read 1780 times)
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Starduster
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« on: January 11, 2015, 02:38:28 PM »

Just to let you know, Bob Holman is now offering the Starduster 350 as a short kit.

I am also putting the finishing touches on the Orbiteer.

If you are not familiar with the Orbiteer, the airplane was designed by Sal Taibi and Dennis Bronco. It was/is a low thrustline 1/2 A model. The plan shows two versions: The first is a Category I airplane with a 370 sq. inch wing and a "Short Wing" version (300 sq. inches) for Category II. It was the last Competitive airplane kitted by Competition Models.

I do have have a question: The short version of the airplane has a shorter fuselage (and shorter wings) but unfortunately, I have the plan but not a kit to look at.

Does anyone have an original kit and if so,  can you make a few measurements for me? Specifically, I need to know the difference between F-2 and F-3. I think it is that one is just shorter than the other, but I need to know exactly how much shorter.

Thanks

Rich
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Scottl0413
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« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2015, 09:34:52 AM »

Rich, I have a 3 Orbiteer kits at home, I'll check on the dimensions this evening when I get home this evening! Attached are a couple of pics. of an Orbiteer I built a no. of years ago with a few mod's. i.e. 5 panel wing, geodetic wing ribs (to many), and lengthened to fuselage a little bit. Originally pwr'd by a Cox TD 09 but was weak on the pwr. pattern, glide was outstanding!!!!! Changed to ST .11 Series X for pwr. but have not yet had a chance to fly it! Attached are a couple of pics.

Regards,

Scott
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Re: Starduster 350 and Orbiteer
Re: Starduster 350 and Orbiteer
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Starduster
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« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2015, 11:34:06 AM »

Thanks a bunch, Scott

IIRC - The F-3 was about 1 inch shorter than the F-2, but I wanted to be sure.

Yes, both the Orbiteer and the Starduster 350 are HUGE by today's standards. (for 1/2 A) But you have to remember that during their heyday, Cat. I motor run was 25 (yes,, 25!) seconds. With a 25 second motor run, the 350 and the Orbiteer could do 5 minutes in dead air easily.

I've been tempted to put my MK 17 Russian diesel on the front of either a 350 or an Orbiteer.
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NormF
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« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2015, 01:12:24 PM »

Rich-
Is the short kit going to include the fuselage sides? If yes, will the structure be printed on the wood like the original or?

How about the rest of the series? Duster X, 600, 900(thin stab)?

Thanks!

Norm
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Starduster
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« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2015, 01:37:17 PM »

Rich-
Is the short kit going to include the fuselage sides? If yes, will the structure be printed on the wood like the original or?

How about the rest of the series? Duster X, 600, 900(thin stab)?

Thanks!

Norm

Hi Norm, yes the short kits include laser cut fuselage sides and the structure "printed" (in quotes because the "printing"is done with the laser on very low power) on the wood.

The 'X' (and the HydroStar, BTW)is already available from Bob, but I don't know about the fuselage sides, though. I didn't do the work on that one and I have not seen the short kit. A quick e-mail to Bob could answer that question.

As for the 600 and 900... I'm sure that there was enough interest Bob (and I) would be willing to offer those also. The only real question is whether Bob's laser bed is large enough to cut the 900  (or even the 600) fuselage sides. I'll get with Bob and ask him.
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Starduster
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« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2015, 02:28:34 PM »

Norm:

Sorry, I was mistaken about one thing: The fuselage sides are, indeed laser cut, but the structure is not "printed" on the sides. Bob felt that (and probably rightly so) that even at low power the laser will weaken the structure too much.

I'd be willing to do the 900 and 600, and I just heard from Bob, and he would offer the kits.

I do need to clarify your comment about the "900 Thin stab" was this one the plan? or was it a later modification?
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NormF
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« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2015, 06:30:10 PM »

The "thin stab" was/is a standard modification done to the 900, especially if a hot .40 is being used. Thickness was reduced 1/8th", the thickness of the top spar.

I did a short run of Duster X kits for friends and the printwood fuse was a problem. I just told them to build the framework over the plans and then attach the sheeting. This could be done with the short kits eliminating the need and cost of fuse sides?

Like what you're doing. How about the B-70 with an electric conversion?

Norm
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Starduster
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« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2015, 07:29:55 PM »

Hi Norm, thanks for the info.

I've wondered what happened to the dies and screens from Competition Models.

I actually did build an electric R/C B-70. Flew pretty well, actually. It would be easy enough to do a laser cut kit of it, but someone would have to create the screens for the graphics. I wonder if it would be worth it?

As to the thin stab, that's always a conundrum. I always try very hard to stay true to the original, but when it comes to things like this, do I stay with the historically accurate ribs? Or do I go with the common modification? As a matter of fact. once you explained the modification, I remembered it.

I have always had a soft spot for Competition Models.

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« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2015, 09:28:51 PM »

I saw Starduster screens in Al Heinrichs old AeroDyne shop when he was in Orange Co.  I forgot that the B-70 was screened. Laser cut would be nice!

I scratch built four B-70's for my kids and my nephews, couldn't get all the PeeWees to run, even had Sal helping!

As for Competition Models, Curt Stevens took me to my first contest at the Basin. Maybe our paths have crossed at one time?

Norm






 
Hi Norm, thanks for the info.

I've wondered what happened to the dies and screens from Competition Models.

I actually did build an electric R/C B-70. Flew pretty well, actually. It would be easy enough to do a laser cut kit of it, but someone would have to create the screens for the graphics. I wonder if it would be worth it?

As to the thin stab, that's always a conundrum. I always try very hard to stay true to the original, but when it comes to things like this, do I stay with the historically accurate ribs? Or do I go with the common modification? As a matter of fact. once you explained the modification, I remembered it.

I have always had a soft spot for Competition Models.


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Re: Starduster 350 and Orbiteer
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Starduster
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« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2015, 09:37:51 PM »


As for Competition Models, Curt Stevens took me to my first contest at the Basin. Maybe our paths have crossed at one time?

Norm


I used to fly with SCAMPS and basically grew up at Taft. Sal taught me how to build and fly Freeflight, so I'm sure we know each other.
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Scottl0413
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« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2015, 09:46:21 PM »

Rich, I checked the plans I have at home and the difference between the II and III is 1 1/2" measured on the plans. We must be on the same wave length, I was planning building the II version and powering it with an 049 Cyclone? Should be an interesting project!!!!

Scott
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« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2015, 11:30:27 PM »

I've also heard that the 600 stab was also thinned when using a hot .19 or .21 engine. How much was thickness reduced, I do not know but would guess 3/32".
Robert
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Starduster
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« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2015, 01:36:43 PM »

Gentlepersons:

The Orbiteer is now available to order from Bob Holman:

http://www.bhplans.com/AMAMISSg1.html

The B-70 will be available very soon (By the end of next week) Unfortunately the B-70 won't have the USAF screen printing.

I'm starting work on the 600 and 900. the plan is to offer the option of the original stab or the thin section stab for both. When you order one, you specify which you want.
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FF Bruce
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« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2015, 04:06:05 PM »

I knew of a few others that also lengthend the body of the dusters by a couple inches expressly the 600 and 900.My Dad and I also spent a far amount of time in Taft,1968 to the 80's. Bruce.
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« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2016, 10:30:10 AM »

Hi Rich.

If i could ask for your patience by answering  what is your hardware
configuration for lipo and e-motor for the starduster 350?

that is 2s or 3s, suggested mah rating and suggested brand/watts/nomenclature of e-motor.

thank you in advance, john swain ...... in so. cal @ 15mi from Perris Grin
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Starduster
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« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2016, 11:12:40 AM »

Hi Rich.

If i could ask for your patience by answering  what is your hardware
configuration for lipo and e-motor for the starduster 350?

that is 2s or 3s, suggested mah rating and suggested brand/watts/nomenclature of e-motor.

thank you in advance, john swain ...... in so. cal @ 15mi from Perris Grin

Hi John

Here are the particulars. Please bear in mind that by most standards, this airplane is under-powered. With a 10 second motor run, it does OK, but it's toast with the 5 second. You have to remember that the 350 (and the large Orbiteer) was designed for a 20 second motor run and 5 minute max.

Weights (RTF):

Wing = 87.7 Grams
Stab =  22.8 Grams
Fuselage = 196.7 Grams
Total        = 307.2 Grams

Motor is a Cheetah A2208-12
Prop is a 8 X 3.8 SF
Battery is a Cheetah 2S 850 mAh 35

Full charge, the motor pulls about 90 Watts after 6 seconds.

One other thing: As good as the 350 wing was, it is/was woefully structurally weak. Highly recommend adding some structure to the center and tip dihedral breaks. I add a 3/8 X 1/8 and a 1/4 X 1/8 bottom spars a few rib bays out from the centers. Then use 1/16th ply doublers.
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« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2016, 06:47:04 PM »

Perfect, thank you for your help.

this is one of my bucket-list models so that will be two done for this year - a Sailaire and 350 !!!

john s.
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Scottl0413
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« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2016, 11:19:50 AM »

John, please find attached pic. of a Orbiteer wing with warren truss's added for strength. As of this writing if remounted a Super Tigre .11 series X engine on it and the wing holds up great. Note the polyspan covering!!!! As far as your pwr. choice the Cheetah 2208/12 will probably have plenty of pwr. but you'll have to use a 3 cell at about 700-850 mah and 45-60C output. Prop size I'd recommended would be a 7 X 4 APC E prop.

Scott
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Re: Starduster 350 and Orbiteer
Re: Starduster 350 and Orbiteer
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« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2016, 07:02:44 PM »

thank you Scott for the follow up.

I still think flying these older models have so much character and such a thrill to get 'right'.

Fortunately for me i live about 25 minutes west of Perris, Ca so i have been able to enjoy seeing these models fly.

take care, john s. in riverside.

John, please find attached pic. of a Orbiteer wing with warren truss's added for strength....!!! As far as your pwr. choice the Cheetah 2208/12 will probably have plenty of pwr. but you'll have to use a 3 cell at about 700-850 mah and 45-60C output. Prop size I'd recommended would be a 7 X 4 APC E prop.  Scott
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« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2017, 08:08:35 AM »

I have several of these older, original kits in my collection that I need to start thinning down. Orbiteer, Stratometer, T-bird, Playboy Sr, Leisure playboy, Brooklyn Dodger, Wildfire, Javelin, and many more if anyone is interested
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