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Author Topic: First Indoor Embryo: Ghost Rider  (Read 7686 times)
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dslusarc
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« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2015, 08:24:30 PM »

That second model must be named the Maubosin something another. Sorry if I misspelled the name.  Just another great flyer in the box with the Ghost Rider.

Yes that my Mauboussin Hemiptere Type 40 Dime Scale model. Excellent flying model for Dime Scale plus you get low wing and tandem bonus points as well.
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dslusarc
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« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2015, 08:26:19 PM »

When is the Kent State meet?

Here is the contest flyer:
http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=18346.0
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dslusarc
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« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2015, 10:56:47 PM »

Ghost Rider flies great! Here is video from tonight's test flying session. Motor is .057" x 15" long
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7JgteU6U-A
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OZPAF
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« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2015, 03:33:01 AM »

It certainly does even with the heavy wheel pants Grin

John
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dosco
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« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2015, 11:25:45 AM »

Ghost Rider flies great! Here is video from tonight's test flying session. Motor is .057" x 15" long
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7JgteU6U-A

Nice.

Interesting tail-down attitude as it flies.

-Dave
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calgoddard
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« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2015, 02:02:08 PM »

Great flight!  I am a little surprised by the right hand circle.  Was this intentional?
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« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2015, 05:16:30 PM »

Don,

 Looks great in the air. Can you tell me what you used for covering adhesive? What's your source for Gampi?

 I'll post pics of mine later. Structure same as yours--1.2 g, but climbed past 5 g when finished. Sad It flies nicely though...
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rick121x
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« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2015, 06:24:16 PM »

...... The reason is so that the rubber motor acts as nose weight as 2/3rds of the motor is ahead of the CG. This is something I do with indoor nocals to prevent excess nose weight or in some cases any nose weight to trim the model. The model is built with 4-6 pound wood and covered with Gampi tissue. .......

I like to build indoor flying models, and I have a profile "Peck" Prairie Bird, that weighs in at 4.2 grams and flies quite similarly to your Ghost Rider re flying speed and flying angle of attack. It uses Esaki in lieu of Gampi and that explains the weight difference.  http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=13002.msg100505#msg100505

Re your motor length notions: I closely agree, with a slight difference. I fix my tail hook location so that the motor length centers on the CG of the aircraft. That way I can change motor lengths and widths without re balancing the model. I have been doing this on all of my indoor models for quite a while now, and am still pleased with the arrangement. In some planes, the motor length turns out to be quite short, but since I don't do contests, the ease that comes with this system makes my flying more of a pleasure.

I use a 42% MAC location for my design CG locations. There are variations on some of my planes, but generally not significant.

I enjoyed your video... nice flying plane!

Richard Ranney

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dslusarc
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« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2015, 09:13:41 PM »

Tail down is typical indoor duration style flying for me. The big stab is setup as a lifting tail so needs some angle of attack. Right hand turn is intentional. I covered with two methods. First the top of the wing and stab were done with spray adhesive. Then the tip dihedral was added in. Then the underside of the wing and stab were done with white glue/water mix. The fin and body were also white glue and water. I have had Gampi since before FAC banned it 10 years or so ago. The sheets then were around 8 grams/square meter so a typical 18" x 24" sheet is about 2 grams compared to 3 for Esaki. I see Gampi sold now is advertised as 10 grams per sq meter which is essentially the same as Esaki. Conservation Gampi is the closest I have seen sold now. It is about 5-6 times the cost of Esaki tissue per square inch.
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dslusarc
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« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2015, 09:40:51 PM »

I use to do 50/50 on the nocals but found that I was still adding nose weight, so started moving the rear peg forward and forward until no nose weight was needed. In the past it was frustrating having a 2 gram nocal and adding 1 gram nose weight to get it to fly. You do have to be careful as you can end up with a nose heavy plane if the prop is to heavy or if you guess the wrong motor weight to make it fly. My cardinal Nocal (2.0 grams) has the rear hook at the wing trailing edge and needed no nose weight to fly so that works out as long as my motors are all near the same weight. But I have flown nocals so long that I had a good idea on what the weighs all would be.

I "build" my model designs first on paper to get the estimated weight of all parts built and covered then do a weight and balance of the entire model with a predicted motor weight then compare that my calculated CG location, when they coincide then the design is ready to go. So on this embryo with the 48% stab, I am running a 80% CG location with the motor installed. Now my motor is ~1.2 grams if I needed a 2 gram motor to fly I would be stuck with a nose heavy model. So when it works out well you have a really light flying weight if it doesn't then at least adding tail weight is usually better than adding noseweight as the tail arm is typically longer much longer then the nose arm so to shift the cg 1/8" may need only .2 grams on the tail but needs .4gr an on the nose due to the shorter length from the CG to the nose. One mistake I made in my design stage is I forgot about the landing gear weight in my CG calculation so I was a hair nose heavy on my first test flight, so I added a shim under the stab trailing edge to compensate. If I were doing this model again I would probably move the rear peg 1" back to compensate for the gear weight. Then I could run the stab without that shim I added to it but if I find I need more motor weight at the contest I am going to just add clay to the tail to trim it as I am at the max decalage I want to run on this model.
 
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OZPAF
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« Reply #35 on: April 12, 2015, 07:12:15 PM »

Quote
I covered with two methods. First the top of the wing and stab were done with spray adhesive. Then the tip dihedral was added in. Then the underside of the wing and stab were done with white glue/water mix.

I guess that you would use the spray method on both surfaces if there was an easy way to mask the tissue on the top. Is that correct?

John
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dslusarc
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« Reply #36 on: April 12, 2015, 09:39:06 PM »

I have done it in the past but it is difficult. You spray the top and underside of the wing. Then first cover the underside by using a curved fixture to hold the tissue the shape of the underside then cover the top. The hard part is not sticking things all over the place. So now I only do one side.
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dslusarc
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« Reply #37 on: April 18, 2015, 04:12:13 PM »

I just got an order of conservation gampi from Graphic Chemical, these sheets are as light as the old gampi. The say 9 gr/sq meter but a 100 sq in sample measures around 7.9 grams/sq meter. 
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dslusarc
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« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2015, 12:29:50 AM »

Well had the opportunity to fly Ghost Rider in the Kent State contest today. There was a 3 way tie. I won the flyoff with a 4:51 flight. Not too bad for the model's first contest. This photo was taken by Jim Buxton today at the contest during one of my flights.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: First Indoor Embryo: Ghost Rider
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calgoddard
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« Reply #39 on: April 27, 2015, 06:20:22 PM »

Great flight. Congratulations on your win.

The picture is wonderful.
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Dave Andreski
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« Reply #40 on: April 27, 2015, 06:24:39 PM »

Great flight. Congratulations on your win.

The picture is wonderful.

Yes,
Me too!
Dave
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jim_buxton
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« Reply #41 on: April 27, 2015, 11:57:07 PM »

Ah, I have not been lurking lately or I would have had less questions to bother you with Don.  Great model, and great build log.  Here a few more snapshots.  I would like to check out the plans, and a price sheet on a laser cut short kit:)
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: First Indoor Embryo: Ghost Rider
Re: First Indoor Embryo: Ghost Rider
Re: First Indoor Embryo: Ghost Rider
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« Reply #42 on: April 28, 2015, 11:19:13 AM »

I would like to check out the plans, and a price sheet on a laser cut short kit:)

Ditto on that! Also, how much to include enough of that new Gampi to cover it?
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dslusarc
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« Reply #43 on: April 28, 2015, 06:53:52 PM »

I can do a plan but it will have to wait as I need to make that 3 view for my F1R record application  Grin
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dslusarc
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« Reply #44 on: May 18, 2015, 09:59:05 PM »

Ghost Rider won its second contest this past weekend. My flyoff flight was 5:01 which beat out the next highest flyoff time of 4:46, the flight got up about 60 feet.
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« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2015, 08:09:51 PM »

Congratulations. You have a real performer there.

John
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dslusarc
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« Reply #46 on: January 04, 2016, 07:08:41 PM »

Just read the new FAC rule book for 2016-2017 and I see the a new primary rule added to the rule book that will effect embryos.


PRIMARY RULES apply to ALL MODELS in ALL FAC events, unless specified otherwise in the rules for a
specific event.

F. All exterior surfaces and details except props must be colored, painted, or tissue covered. 
EXCEPTIONS: Simplified Scale, Dime Scale, No Cal, Phantom Flash models.


So the nice laser engraved wheel pants I have on my model now are now illegal unless I to paint them or use a marker or tissue cover them, same with the gear legs. Also I have to now wrap tissue or color the last rib on the wing tips and stab. What is this importance on an event like embryo? I understand scale events but embryo is not one of the listed exceptions.
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cglynn
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« Reply #47 on: January 05, 2016, 12:23:55 PM »

Rather timely considering our conversation on Sunday, eh Don?

 I would think some light colored sharpie marker would keep you legal with little to no weight gain.

CG
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mkirda
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« Reply #48 on: January 05, 2016, 01:02:08 PM »

Just read the new FAC rule book for 2016-2017 and I see the a new primary rule added to the rule book that will effect embryos.


PRIMARY RULES apply to ALL MODELS in ALL FAC events, unless specified otherwise in the rules for a
specific event.

F. All exterior surfaces and details except props must be colored, painted, or tissue covered. 
EXCEPTIONS: Simplified Scale, Dime Scale, No Cal, Phantom Flash models.


So the nice laser engraved wheel pants I have on my model now are now illegal unless I to paint them or use a marker or tissue cover them, same with the gear legs. Also I have to now wrap tissue or color the last rib on the wing tips and stab. What is this importance on an event like embryo? I understand scale events but embryo is not one of the listed exceptions.

But I did color them! Honest! It is BALSA colored ink!
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Indoorflyer
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« Reply #49 on: January 05, 2016, 01:22:59 PM »

Don, enjoyed a re-read of this thread.

Just realized the landing gear legs are independent "sticks"--what's your technique for getting them setup/aligned?  This is a great looking embryo!
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