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Author Topic: Nieuport 11 Bebe - Build  (Read 32785 times)
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Rich Moore
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« Reply #125 on: June 12, 2016, 08:27:31 AM »

Packard pursuit has raised a good point. The upper longerons take a more indirect route to the tail than the lower ones. If I just force the side frames into the desired shape, things will be pulled out of shape. I have released the rearmost upright and the upper joint of the rear motor peg support to allow the shear motion happen. The plan is that the net result will be a slightly short upper longeron at the stern post, and ever so slightly tilting uprights which I may correct, if only to release the stress on the joints. I will join the lower fuselage cross pieces first, then worry the upper ones in. This model is already proving to be full of surprises requiring a flexible approach...
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billdennis747
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« Reply #126 on: June 12, 2016, 12:21:40 PM »

Rich, when I did mine (spruce longerons) to keep them straight where I wanted them straight, I taped lengths of straight 1/2" sq to each one before pulling them in and putting in the spacers.
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packardpursuit
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« Reply #127 on: June 12, 2016, 01:10:12 PM »

Were I to do it again, especially in a larger scale, I think I'd build up-side- down, with the upper longerons over the plan,  firewall bulkhead and top x-members added. Then place pre-bent lower longerons in place at front, then add verticals (to tail post). Cardboard jigging to keep everything aligned and right ht. Trim for length at tail post. THEN add any bay sheeting and or diagonals, etc.

I built my peanut using 1/20" sq balsa. To get the top fuselage formers to fit, I sanded the top inside longeron corners flat, with a couple careful passes with sanding block. The swail was perceptible but only if you eyeballed it real close. Will admit to being a bit anal.
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Rich Moore
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« Reply #128 on: June 12, 2016, 04:28:04 PM »

Firewall on, tail glued together (except upper longeron as it is detached currently). Then tail-most crosspiece added as there is a small change in taper at le of tailplane. Then straight edge thingymajigs attached using rubber bands and remaining cross-pieces added. Built upside down over a centre line. I did the bottom first so I could use the straighteners.
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ZK-AUD
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« Reply #129 on: June 12, 2016, 05:04:29 PM »

Hi team - if you haven't looked at the FSI Nieuport 11 plan it's worthwhile as it certainly shows the subtleties of this little beauty's fuselage.  Not as simple as one may have thought! 

By the way if anyone is familiar with the KK Super Scorpion this is a very complex fuselage with differing tapers and yes after I built it I noticed a hell of a banana which is the natural result!  I built in about 1/8" under the tailplane LE to straighten it out and mine flies like a pussycat.  A clubmate built one as per plan and with any kind of power on it heads straight up.
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packardpursuit
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« Reply #130 on: June 13, 2016, 10:08:06 AM »

Rich,
I suspect that despite your valiant (and ingenious) efforts to keep lower longerons straight, the problem of built in "banana" geometry will yet arise, as the upper x-members are added.

It's ok by me (and am sure with the others, too) if you just decide to live with it. Shocked
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Rich Moore
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« Reply #131 on: June 13, 2016, 11:17:05 AM »

That's OK. My cunning plan, if it is deemed necessary, is to start again having learnt something in the process, so all is well.
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Rich Moore
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« Reply #132 on: June 13, 2016, 04:28:59 PM »

 Upper cross-pieces going in. Rearmost one first. One forward of cockpit and one at motor peg position. Motor peg support reattached to upper longeron. All looking ok so far...now it is time to leave it alone, and wait and see what happens.

If all is straight and true within reason, I will add internal gussets between uprights and cross-pieces to toughen things up a bit. Looking at it now I am worried I have a tad too much top to bottom taper. I'm looking forward to picking it up and comparing it to photographs from every conceivable angle...
« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 05:11:39 PM by Rich Moore » Logged

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ZK-AUD
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« Reply #133 on: June 13, 2016, 06:48:22 PM »

Hi Rich,

You will have worked this out already but the banana effect won't be much in this case but what you could do is to glue a piece of (1/16 x 1/8 or less I'm guessing) along the top longerons and then flat them back off with a long sanding block

Cheers, Mike
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Rich Moore
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« Reply #134 on: June 14, 2016, 01:42:43 PM »

So I have removed the fuselage from the board and everything is as I had hoped. No bananas. Trouble is I definitely have messed up my plan view as the top-bottom taper is excessive. I have redrawn it, narrowing the fuselage a bit more at the cockpit and started the tailward taper further forward.
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Rich Moore
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« Reply #135 on: June 14, 2016, 02:43:32 PM »

Now I'm worried I have under done it. Quite a fine line between looking right and looking wrong. This aeroplane is a pain in the arse and had better be worth it.

The first picture is with, what I think is, way too much top-bottom taper. Poor pilot wouldn't get his leg over that overhang and there is nothing subtle about it. Second photo is a lot more subtle which might be why so many people miss it, although I think I could have got away with a tiny tweak more. Not so much that I can be bothered to change it again though.

I'm looking forward to doing something a little more straight forward. The tailplane is going to be awkward to make thin and warp proof. Any ideas out there?
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billdennis747
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« Reply #136 on: June 14, 2016, 02:53:17 PM »

The second one looks fine to me
The tail is a flat plate isn't it? I would try 3 x basswood/ammonia/water-soaked outlines, square balsa ribs and spar, little gussets, cover it now and store it under a hardback copy of War and Peace until needed.
I use full-strength ammonia. It needs a good wash in water afterwards because the ammonia does something chemically to the glue
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Rich Moore
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« Reply #137 on: June 14, 2016, 03:06:01 PM »

That's along the lines of what I was thinking. Not really sure if there are any other options really. I'm sure perfect joints will pay dividends here. Now, I've thus far managed to avoid ammonia. Will the local chemist give me a funny look or should I distill my pee and risk being frowned upon by the Mrs?
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billdennis747
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« Reply #138 on: June 14, 2016, 03:08:16 PM »

I think, on balance, I'd get it from a hardware store. I use it full strength
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« Reply #139 on: June 14, 2016, 03:13:58 PM »

I do what Bill does with the books, I build and cover/dope the tail parts early on and leave them between two heavy books  for as long as possible - right until just before I need them at the final assembly stage.  It seems to work for me, all of the models on my shelves at home still have nice flat surfaces...

I have never seen ammonia in the hardware shop, will have a look next time I am there and make up some trial pieces for future reference.

Nice project Rich, still following with interest, keep up the good work.

Andrew

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ZK-AUD
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« Reply #140 on: June 14, 2016, 03:40:36 PM »

The next FF Scale build I do I'll be looking at carbon tube main spars  L.E and T.E. could also be carbon rod or tube.  Avetek have gone with a 1mm carbon front spar in the Strutter.  That would be my fix for your TP.
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Rich Moore
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« Reply #141 on: June 14, 2016, 04:26:23 PM »

Ok. Am I right in thinking that cyano sticks to carbon? Quite fancy trying it.
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skyraider
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« Reply #142 on: June 14, 2016, 04:33:10 PM »

Rich,
  It seems to me the taper looks a little much. It looks as though for maybe
a Nie 24/27. I think the FSI drawings and just about accurate for the N-11.
Just my opinion. But its looking good so far.

Skyraider
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billdennis747
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« Reply #143 on: June 14, 2016, 04:40:24 PM »

On a previous Avro 504K tailplane, I used carbon rods for the straight bits. I filed the last 1/8" to a smaller diameter to fit aluminium tube which I bent for the corners. When it was all pinned down, thin cyano wicked in. On a diesel Nieuport the entire outline was aluminium tube. They all worked; the key here is to use the lightest method, as the ratio of moment arms is 1g  = 6g
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ZK-AUD
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« Reply #144 on: June 14, 2016, 05:21:09 PM »

Ok. Am I right in thinking that cyano sticks to carbon? Quite fancy trying it.

Like the proverbial to a blanket!
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Art356A
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« Reply #145 on: June 14, 2016, 08:24:52 PM »

I wasn't following this build, but I should have suggested this around reply #125. The inside bulkheads are depron food tray but they can be anything flat, cheap and easy to cut. On this job and many that preceded it I made one for every station, taped them all in and then cut the tops and bottoms off so they wouldn't be glued in. Wrong. Just tape one into every second station, install your woodwork at the empty stations, and when dry remove the forms and glue the rest of the crosspieces in.

Bananaproofing is done prior to building the sides by matching up your longeron stiffness.

a.
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My arms are so weak, it's like that pushup I did last year was a total waste.
Rich Moore
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« Reply #146 on: June 16, 2016, 04:33:45 PM »

Gun!
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Mark Braunlich
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« Reply #147 on: June 17, 2016, 02:29:50 PM »

I approve of your gun.

Inspector Lewis
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Mark
Rich Moore
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« Reply #148 on: June 17, 2016, 05:20:54 PM »

Thanks Mark.

More about Gun... I drew a few key bits like the magazine and main body of the gun up on CAD and managed to get them laser cut which makes life a lot easier. The rest is bamboo skewers and paper. I like the wrapped paper strips around the bamboo - this adds a lot to the model. The pistol grip and handle stock is hardwood. I've painted it black for starters - I now just need to make it look more like metal and a little varnish/ oil on the hardwood will bring it to life. The hardest part has been the ring sight, which I'm not very happy with compared to the rest of it, but I can live with it (it'll soon get snapped off and lost anyway).

Whoops - photos in wrong order
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« Last Edit: June 17, 2016, 05:40:05 PM by Rich Moore » Logged

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FreeFlightModeller
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« Reply #149 on: June 17, 2016, 05:53:09 PM »

Nice gun Rich  Smiley
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