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Author Topic: Nieuport 11 Bebe - Build  (Read 33233 times)
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danmellor
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« Reply #150 on: June 17, 2016, 06:05:13 PM »

I have a feeling this is going to be a good 'un!

Cheers,

Dan.
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ZK-AUD
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« Reply #151 on: June 18, 2016, 02:37:42 AM »

Nice job Rich. Just brush it with pencil lead dust now. Rub pencil on sandpaper to obtain
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Rich Moore
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« Reply #152 on: June 18, 2016, 05:36:43 PM »

Thanks to Mike for the following suggestion - the powdered pencil. What a fantastic wheeze this is! I rubbed a pencil on some sandpaper and applied with a soft dry brush. I may have got carried away but I think it has made an authentic gun metal effect without resorting to more paint. The only other addition has been a bit of furniture wax on the hardwood bits and a leather strap atop the magazine, which is from the remainder of Ltn. Richard Wenzel's coat.

Other less photogenic progress has occurred on the Bebe, namely gussets and the formers to the top deck. A bit of wire bending next me thinks...
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billdennis747
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« Reply #153 on: June 18, 2016, 06:08:35 PM »

That gun looks downright dangerous.
Just needs an aeroplane underneath it now.
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #154 on: June 18, 2016, 06:15:31 PM »

Great gun! I want one and am definitely going to try the powdered pencil trick as soon as possible.

(Hmmm...would  a Lewis gun look out of place on the wing of a Fairchild 24?)
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Rich Moore
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« Reply #155 on: June 18, 2016, 06:28:10 PM »

Not if you built two - one on each wing
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OZPAF
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« Reply #156 on: June 18, 2016, 06:54:52 PM »

Amazing! Great detail and what a convincing metal effect. You can stop now - no need to build the rest Smiley

John
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ZK-AUD
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« Reply #157 on: June 19, 2016, 04:33:04 PM »

http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20305.0;attach=146131;image

Rich that came up mint!  There are other much more involved techniques using paint but the good old pencil dust trick is simple and foolproof.  I did a Lewis in 1/12 for my Bristol Scout but this was the jacketed version - The stripped down version you did has more interesting bits!
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Rich Moore
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« Reply #158 on: June 20, 2016, 04:35:17 PM »

A bit of wire bending. I don't like the idea of lashing the cabane struts directly to the longerons and I want to build in a bit of movement to absorb the inevitable hard arrivals, so I have passed the wire through aluminium tubes which will be stitched and epoxied to the fuselage and the wire will be free to twist within - a sort of torsion bar system. The rear struts will slide into wing tubes fixed to the rear wing spar. The front struts will receive 'L' shaped hooks that'll be attached to the wings front spar. There will be an independant wire-in-tube at the front spar and an internal retaining band to hold the wings together. This set up will allow the wings to part at the central join without having to have a clearance slot in the wing itself. Hopefully the ability to absorb energy and come apart will add crashability as opposed to breakability.
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ZK-AUD
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« Reply #159 on: June 20, 2016, 05:46:28 PM »

Hi Rich, I was just looking back over this very interesting thread and saw that there had been a question about how to best finish the cowling once you had beaten it.  It occurred to me that you could chuck the whole thing back up accurately in a 4 jaw chuck where you clamp band is and either take a really fine cut and/or use fine emery tape to linish it at high speed.

You'd just want to tap in the edges of your cut out area well so that it didn't pick up on you.

Cheers, Mike
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OZPAF
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« Reply #160 on: June 20, 2016, 06:46:47 PM »

Rich, Looking at your very tidy wire bending I was puzzled at how you managed the bends right next to the ends of the tubing. Probably a simple solution but I don't feel that simple at the moment Smiley

John
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Rich Moore
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« Reply #161 on: June 21, 2016, 02:18:01 AM »

Hi John. Nothing clever here. Worked from the middle out. Only once forgot to add the tube before starting the next bend! The actual bends were just done with one pair of long nosed pliers with repeated checking against the drawing.
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Rich Moore
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« Reply #162 on: June 22, 2016, 05:55:39 PM »

I didn't necessarily intend to add the stringers, but the 1/32" sheeting needs the support. I'm glad I did because they look nice even if they are getting covered up.
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packardpursuit
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« Reply #163 on: June 22, 2016, 06:03:27 PM »

Not to be the "scale police" Roll Eyes, but I thought 11's had fabric over stringers at top rear fuselage, while 17's had a wooden composite shell???

Hey,  it's your world. Thanks for sharing with us! Grin
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Rich Moore
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« Reply #164 on: June 22, 2016, 06:16:11 PM »

Quote
11's had fabric over stringers at top rear fuselage, while 17's had a wooden composite shell???

Apparently not so - I have failed to find any photographs of 11's showing fabric covered stringers. They all show a smooth top, despite many drawings not reflecting this.
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« Reply #165 on: June 22, 2016, 06:38:01 PM »

Very nice Rich - particularly liked the laminated rear cockpit former.  The stringers are a good idea to support that covering.  I've found that once covered and doped the turtle decks can shrink leading to the starved horse effect, even though it didn't go on like that!
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Rich Moore
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« Reply #166 on: June 22, 2016, 06:46:00 PM »

Yeah - it's quite a span between the formers so it is no surprise the stringers are needed really, and I like to reflect a scale-ish structure where I can.

I can't do the front decking until I get the struts fitted. Then I'll need to wait until I get my hands on some aluminium tubing to squash into the 'strut' profile. I'll probably use thin ply for the front decking.
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« Reply #167 on: June 22, 2016, 07:18:11 PM »

10 thou styrene sheet's also worth considering for the front - no filling or sanding required, paints up like any effect you want - nice to work with.
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packardpursuit
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« Reply #168 on: June 26, 2016, 11:20:57 AM »

Rich-
I now believe you are correct about the non-fabric turtle deck. Checked some photos and it sure looks "solid", as opposed to fabric over stringers.
I'm now thinking it's the same system as used on 17 an 28. IIRC, Bergen Hardesty(fairly comprehensive Nieuport 17-23 and 28 scale drawings) called this thin shell  "composition board". And, some years ago, here at our NASM, when restoring their original Nieuport 28, it was discovered to be thin, narrow,  strips of poplar planking. Can't recall if it was multiple layers.

Truly sad part is, as I'm recalling our 83e project, I realize I had my first experience with" 45 deg" mahogany plywood used on the turtledeck! Embarrassed

For me, one of the main draws for modeling the 11, has been to avoid that decking! Just shows how the memory and hence perception, can deceive!!!

Thanks, I think, for the ah-ha moment. Roll Eyes

In thinking about tackling that shell, and avoiding  the starved horse look, I was contemplating thin sheet balsa shell formed over  carved block mold. Tissue and dope finish could be applied while over this form, as well, letting the assembly dry/set for many days...THEN attach to fuselage.

Doping and finish in place, I'd suggest pre-shrinking tissue and run its grain " athwartship' to avoid over shrinkage. Heck, I like to run tissue grain the short direction on stringered structures to avoid the "alligator look",

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Rich Moore
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« Reply #169 on: June 26, 2016, 05:19:31 PM »

Hi PP. I don't know why they bothered sheeting the rear. Rigidity? Drag reduction? I imagine 'composition board' to be an early name for plywood, so it is interesting about poplar planking. What about the front decking? I've read different reports - aluminium and composition board.
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packardpursuit
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« Reply #170 on: June 27, 2016, 10:13:41 AM »

Could have been for rigidity. All the Nieuports of that frame style (both single and two-seaters) have those large interior ply gussets at fuselage rear, under stab, but over tail skid. Also, and IIRC, the upright/wire brace fittings of fuselage are only screwed  to inside edges of longerons and seem a bit "unsubtantial", should the frame be subject to torsional loads.
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billdennis747
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« Reply #171 on: June 27, 2016, 10:38:55 AM »

I wonder why the people at Vintage Aviator chose to use stringers on their Italian 11
http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/projects/aircraft/nieuport-11-bebe/detail/walkaround?page=0%2C3
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Rich Moore
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« Reply #172 on: June 27, 2016, 11:57:16 AM »

Mmm. Maybe not all Nieuport 11's were sheeted. The photos I've seen only represent a relatively small number of aircraft. There are a few things on there that I'm not sure about. In particular the sharp change in angle in longerons at the tail end.

Anyway, I'm not modelling that one!
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billdennis747
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« Reply #173 on: June 27, 2016, 12:08:27 PM »

I take it back.Reading the blurb, it appears the VA Nieuport was built in the US in 1962, so perhaps they assumed it was stringered too.
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #174 on: June 27, 2016, 05:13:53 PM »

Rich, when I made my (greatly inferior) Nieuport XI a few years ago I noted the stringers on the drawings and spent AGES trawling the internet to try and find a contemporary photo also showing stringers. I never did, and came to the same conclusion as you. Mine's just sheeted with thin balsa and tissued over.
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