Nieuport 11 Bebe - Build

[packardpursuit]

Maybe a dumb question...but I was wondering if carbon fibre came any colors other than black? I have quite a bit stashed, collected over the years. It's different cloths matts and strands etc, but can't bring myself to commit to it's greater use because of the lack of color! A tan or brown would be much preferred.

[Rich Moore]

Not a dumb question but I don't know the answer. Not a problem with painted models but I guess you're worried about it showing through a tissue finish?

[Pete Fardell]

You can paint the carbon itself, either before or after use.

[Rich Moore]

Done something at last. Made a wheel. 6x balsa rings (4x2.5mm and 2x1mm) were laminated alternately x-grained to make tyres. 2x 2.5mm balsa discs x-grained for hub, then thin balsa spokes added. I like making the tyres separately. I'll cover spokes with tissue. I'll put in an aluminium bushing later.

I first built wheels like this for my Dr.1. I intended to use rubber tubing for the tyres, and had found some flex which was the correct diameter. I stripped the insulation off and made an OK tyre, but it was too heavy, so I tried balsa. Perfectly adequate and allows paint to be applied. WW1 tyres were apparently pale grey, rather than black, so black rubber would not be authentic anyway.

[Russ Lister]

Nice wheels Rich 

I prefer a darkish grey just respect this fact ... not sure I like the light grey look.
Probably another reason why I like to model replicas or later incarnations of the aircraft?! (and the documentation is easier)
I don't suppose many of these tyres have survived to tell the tale of their greyness?

[Rich Moore]

I don't like the idea of 'pale grey' either. In the photos I'm using, they look reasonably dark, so I'll go with a 'medium grey'. Definitely not black though...

[Prosper]

I think the German air force used natural latex, i.e. creamy off-white, whereas the RFC/RNAS used the same but added carbon (soot) to reduce UV damage. I don't know what Nieuport or France did - perhaps latex naturel avec un peu de soot with a drizzling of talc streaked with mud de la Flandre? Parfait!

Stephen.

[Russ Lister]

I prefer a darkish grey just respect this fact

I prefer a darkish grey just to respect this fact! (that WWI tyres were pale grey) .... when will I read through my posts properly before posting?!

[Rich Moore]

I read it as you intended Russ - my brain must have inserted the missing 'to' automatically.

And yep, I'm gonna make 'em muddy as well. I don't intend this to be a clean model!

[billdennis747]

Rich, I've no idea how you can sand tyres like that, so accurately.
Yes, I think it was German tyres that were pale.
I use neoprene foam rod for tyres. This 2 1/2" wheel weighs 10g, of which 6g is tyre. I guess that's a fair bit heavier than yours. The spokes are cotton under tissue. I like rubber because my models seek out concrete to land on, but the best thing is that the wheels took an hour to make!
Bill

[Rich Moore]

I've no idea how you can sand tyres like that, so accurately

As long as you can cut balsa rings accurately, sanding them is far less of a challenge than you might think. I sanded mine by hand with a piece of 180 grit.

Not much in it weight wise - my wheels are 8g each, now I've painted the tyres. They'll probably end up 10g by the time i've finished with them! Not planning to ROG or land on anything other than lovely springy grass, so hopefully not being rubber won't be a problem. Dr1 wheels have survived some rough treatment.

[daveh]

I use neoprene foam rod for tyres.

Bill,
How do you join the ends of the neoprene without the seam being obvious? I've got some of the stuff that is sold for making seals but so far can't manage to hide the join (Sorry to butt in on your thread Rich).
Dave

[billdennis747]

Dave,
I just cut the ends perfectly square and put just enough thin cyano on so it doesn't squeeze out. If it does, wipe it off quickly. With care, you can hardly see a join, certainly after it has been dirtied up and 'Palmer Cord Aero Tyre' written over.. To be honest, I don't worry too much about imperfections - I'm lucky like that.

[Russ Lister]

Dave,

Did you ever see the method that Pete Iliffe was using at one point?
He prepared his wheels in the same way as Bill and then used a section of the neck of a grey latex balloon stretched over the tyre.
This gave the right look for (I think) one of his Albatros (insert plural!) Can't remember how this panned out over time?

[danmellor]

I can never find any grey balloons!

Dan.

[daveh]

Russ - I've just been talking to Pete on the phone and he has told me in a bit more detail how to do it; sounds easy but like many of Pete's methods it will probably need a lot of skill to make a good job of it (so I'm doomed from the start).

Dan - Pete uses silver balloons for producing grey tyres; apparently, when stretched over black neoprene cord it looks grey. He's used the method on all his German WW1 models and the tyres look superb.

Thanks Bill - I'll have a go using your advice as I think I've probably been using too much CA. I'll also try Pete's method if I can get hold of some black balloons (with hallowe'en not far off I may be lucky) and if I can convert some of my collection of thumbs into fingers, but I have a feeling that the minimal CA tip will be the clincher.

Dave 

[Rich Moore]

I've finally managed to dust off this build a bit. Over Christmas I have spent quite a lot of time just trying to work out how I was planning to do one thing and another, and work out where I was with this build. I have a couple of tubs of prepared bits and bobs. Some bits I have made, others are designed in my head but I can't find them, so perhaps I haven't actually made them in real life yet!

The main focus has been on the undercarriage and wing attachments. The U/C assembly has been rattling around my head for some time, but I have finally committed to a decision over the last week or so and it is now ready for final setting up. The U/C is folded from springy wire and attached to the fuselage via a torsion bar set-up at the front, allowing it to absorb some of the impact when the Bebe comes in to 'land'/ crash. The rear legs are attached to a rigid point, but can bend. The wire frame is clad in squashed ali tube, which adds weight but looks like aluminium.

The wing attachments are mostly wire in tube, but on the upper wing, the front cabanes are spaced apart from the central wing join. To get around this, and to allow the wings to come off on impact, I have attached wire hooks to the underside of the front spars which hook into the cabane (a brass tube, flattened at one end with a hole in it slides over wire cabane - see photo). I have probably mentioned it in earlier posts somewhere, but the cabanes are all sprung and are all connected together in a kind of springy system. Hopefully this will take the punishment of my trimming process!

As ever my main concern with the U/C and the wing attachment is building in the ability to absorb repeated impact - 'crashability' and I have probably over thunked it. However, I am happy with the springy cabanes and knock-off-ability of the wings. I have attached a few photos - including a couple of premature skeletol assembly shots to motivate myself if nothing else. There is plenty of aluminium to cut off that cowling, but it should help get the model to balance without much, if any ballast. Especially when I stick the engine on...

[Russ Lister]

That's looking great Rich .... love the ribs and cap strips 

[Pete Fardell]

It's looking superb, Rich. This is going to be quite some model!

[billdennis747]

Glad to see this one back. The rubber event at the Nats looks to be very interesting this year!

[Pete Fardell]

Talking of the Nats, am I right to assume that the August scale comps will be incorporated into the Freeflight Nats weekend again (May 27/28)? Or is this still to be decided?

(Just trying to get all these things put on our calendar quck, before Carole signs me up to play for her morris dancing troupe!)

[billdennis747]

Pete
We are just discussing it now but the plan is to repeat last year. If you recall, we canvassed opinion and everyone either preferred May or didn´t care. The only change I am considering is to run the two Flying Onlies in the morning so things are less hectic.
I did also canvass opinion on running some FF scale in August, now that it appears that Nats will return, but I got zero response.
When I know, you´ll know, but the intention is May. So get your models (including this one!) ready for May.
Bill

[Pete Fardell]

Cheers Bill. That's what I thought, and I've now circled that weekend on our calandar along with all other dates for forthcoming scale events I can find. Looks like the Dreaming Spires Gala is back to the first Sunday in July, though no date given on the Oxford website for the Autumn Scalefest as yet. A what's-on UK calendar on here, rather than just individual threads for each event would be quite handy. I might start one if only for my own benefit.

Sorry for the thread hi-jack, Rich.
(Well, not that sorry as these are all events this model of yours could win!)

[Rich Moore]

Thanks Pete - All questions I was going to have to ask at some point anyway. I'm a bit out of touch at the moment. I need to try and do a little bit often, rather than have big gaps in production. May is not feeling far away...

Next job is to make a template for the turtle-deck. Then it'll be time to think about prepping the frame for covering. Whoop, whoop!

[Rich Moore]

Cut a card template which I managed to fit in one piece by careful bending. Couldn't quite manage to get 1/32" balsa in, so it had to be installed in two halves. It is nice to fill that big space.