Logo
Builders' Plan Gallery  |  Hip Pocket Web Site  |  Contact Forum Admin (Account/Technical Issues)  |  Contact Global Moderator
September 17, 2021, 12:34:08 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with email, password and session length
 
Home Help Search Login Register
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30  (Read 4778 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Tweedy
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 6
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 61


Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #50 on: November 14, 2009, 11:35:14 AM »

Caley

It has been my experience that for light weight models PVA type glues (Titebond Etc.) may not be the best Choice. Have you tried Ambroid, Sigment, Duco, or Testors? They make sanding much easier are lighter and the process of pre-gluing the joints tends to strengthens the balsa making it easier to handle without damage without leaving a hard spot that will make sanding difficult.

Have you tried using a jewelers Eye Loop For close up work I can’t do without some sort of magnification stronger than my reading Glasses.

Richard
Logged
crashcaley
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 243
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 5,328




Ignore
« Reply #51 on: November 14, 2009, 11:52:50 AM »

Guys, My problem is just understanding something with this many tiny parts. I'm too used to the older designed models, boxy types. I just gave up trying to understand the instructions and am winging it, based on what I read on the plans. This will probably be my last type of model like this. I had visions of going to tube fuses and what non, but will stick with the older designs. Much easier to build.

Caley
Logged

What's stall speed?  Undecided
hoogie007
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 2
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 113



Ignore
« Reply #52 on: November 16, 2009, 02:50:37 PM »

Caley - I'm just getting back to this thread, sorry to hear of your difficulties.

One thing to be aware of when you decided to forgo the standoff tabs on the outboard ribs. When I developed the wing design for the built in washout this involved a bit of rotation of the rib about the plane of the main spar. This was to allow the trailing edge of the rib to be in the washout location and not have a preload built into the wing structure. If you remove these tabs and build flat on your board, you are going to force a small amount of twist in the spar using the ribs as the tool to apply the pressure. This may appear to be a fit-up issue of some sort, implying a need to force fit and possibly breaking the rib at the spar slot. Is this where the parts appear to break?

As for the tabs on the spar lower edges, these are simply developed in place as shims for the spar to match the undercamber of the ribs as you build on the plan. You have this as a built in tool, or you have to apply shims under the spar to elevate it up to where it mates with all the ribs. The tabs are simply the most accurate solution utilizing a CAD application and laser technology accuracy.

I do not want you to be a disappointed customer.

Clint
Logged
danberry
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 17
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 987



Ignore
« Reply #53 on: November 16, 2009, 07:17:44 PM »

Clint, are you telling us that the spar notches are cut at the appropriate increasing angle to allow the washout?
If you answer yes, i'll say that we should all bow to you, as we are not worthy.
Logged
crashcaley
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 243
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 5,328




Ignore
« Reply #54 on: November 16, 2009, 07:47:58 PM »

Clint, I kept the tabs that were under the rib camber because I knew they helped from me crushing the rib when I put in the 1/16 sq strips atop the wing.

What I did was remove the other tabs and build flat. I had to use, on all slots regardless of which way I built, a 1/16 file to open up all slots so the wood fit without breaking a part. Unfortunately, some broke anyway. I'm assuming you used contest grade 4-6# wood. I think your design is wonderful and the wood selection is probably quite good also, but I am not good with contest weight wood. It is my fault I cannot put anything together that delicate without breaking things.

I like to build robust, and is one reason most of my models I build from scratch the size of a P-30 are usually 3 to 10 grams overweight. Remember what I've said. I don't like flying contests. I just fly for fun. If I get a nice 2 minute plus flight from one of my models I am delighted. I am also delighted if I just break one minute. That said, I do try to do better, but my building will always weigh down my chances of getting better times.

So, don't feel it is anything you may have done. Your design is probably one of the best, if not the best out there for a P-30. I am just ham handed when it comes to delicate airplanes. One reason I don't usually build anything smaller than a P-30 anymore. I've got a Majestyk on the shelf I can also build, and a Potent 30, so I've plenty to do when I find the time.

Caley
Logged

What's stall speed?  Undecided
crashcaley
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 243
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 5,328




Ignore
« Reply #55 on: November 17, 2009, 11:33:09 AM »

Well, I just tried joining the wing panels and found not a one is straight. Talk about frustration. I will hand cut more ribs and hope I can get things to fit this time. What I built was totally unusable and could not be fixed, and is now in the bin. Somehow I am going to figure out how to build this type of wing.

Caley
Logged

What's stall speed?  Undecided
hoogie007
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 2
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 113



Ignore
« Reply #56 on: November 17, 2009, 02:32:29 PM »

danberry - yes, the spar slots are developed at an increasing angle at each outboard rib station to accommodate the washout without twisting the spar.

One thing that is hard to control as a kit producer at my level is the tolerance of the wood thickness obtained. Using CAD and laser you can develop very exacting dimensions and accuracy in cutting. If 1/16 slots can't accommodate every variation in tolerance that appears in materials used then filing additional relief is appropriate. In other words, I can hold the slot dimensions to a tight tolerance, but the wood thickness used for the mating part may vary throughout each batch of parts made and simply can't be overcome economically. I do take time to test build laser work and adjust for any significant fit up issues before releasing a kit, and I've been fairly well impressed with the process so far.

I do recommend careful dry fitting of all parts and assemblies. I encourage you to pay attention to the tolerance issues that manifest and handle them in such a way you do not induce pre-loading in the structure or cause damage, especially when using very light weight balsa. This is where model building becomes a careful art form! You will be rewarded with a quality result that flies as well as you hoped.

Let me know if you need rib patterns to make new parts from scratch Caley. I can send you the laser layouts full size.

Clint
Logged
faif2d
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 32
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 1,287


Sun came up I was here to see it = good day



Ignore
« Reply #57 on: November 17, 2009, 02:42:29 PM »

007, why not laser cut the sticks as well as the slots. That way if you tell the folks to put the burned edges into the slot they should match to within a few thousands. DPC does this in their kits I believe.
Logged

I used to like painting with dope but now I can't remember why!    Steve Fauble
Graiskye
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 20
Offline Offline

Canada Canada

Posts: 427




Ignore
« Reply #58 on: November 17, 2009, 04:15:33 PM »

Hey Caley, sorry too hear of your eye troubles. Did you happen to see Ol Bill's post regarding the headband magnifier, LOTS of modelers use these for small delicate work, or just too get a real close view of the parts, fitting, and such. Might be something to consider.

That being said, I can understand your wariness for raised trailing edges, if you cannot see well enough to really line up the rib to trailing edge fit, then yes it will be problematic all the way, thus your technique of using the building board so you have that flat reference, that you have learned to trust, makes sense to me. There's nothing wrong with building your own way, you gave the technique a shot, probably knowing full the outcome to be expected, and so it was, full points for the attempt, using light contest wood is hard enough for most, trust me, no worries there.

Hope you'll continue on, I think once you get the wing sorted you'll be home free, and I know you can do it. Go with what you know.

I've seen many of your models, they are always top drawer stuff.

And think about the magnifier, they look like they would be awesome to use, I think you can even get lighted ones and such, probably custom airbrushed finished, ala your Flying Aces Moth, now that would be cool. I loved your moth by the way, awesome plane, and don't worry bout having it a bit nose heavy, mine is, stuck some plasticine to the tail wire in shape of a tail wheel, and it still flys FAR too well for me to fly it much.

Peace,
-Grais.
Logged

"When I think of something monumentally witty, Ill let you know, till then you'll have to amuse yourselves."
crashcaley
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 243
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 5,328




Ignore
« Reply #59 on: November 17, 2009, 05:05:59 PM »

Hi Grais, Thanks so much for your kind words of encouragement. I am sending what I have of the Boomer back to Clint, as I finally decided that it was causing me too much grief. Better for my sanity. Somewhere in the mess I have in my storage shed, I may have one of those magnifier headsets. I used to do stone cutting on a diamond wheel until my eyes gave out for such precise work. Getting older is in some ways great, and in other ways, a real drag when it comes to health like vision and the pesky Sir Arthuritis Grin that constantly keeps me company. Sir Charlie Horse also decides once in a while to visit me. Gee! What an honour. Grin

As for my next project, I was building the Boomer because I needed to replace my squashed Souper 30. So I've broken out a Majestyk, and am not in the process of studying it and weighing wood. I will start another thread on the Majestyk. I've heard from many that this model is very well designed and flys great. Designer is Thom Greenhalge.

Caley On to less frustrating endeavours, I hope.
Logged

What's stall speed?  Undecided
Oldtime Flyer
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 10
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 335


"Keep it Simple"



Ignore
« Reply #60 on: November 17, 2009, 05:36:48 PM »

Hi Grais, Thanks so much for your kind words of encouragement. I am sending what I have of the Boomer back to Clint, as I finally decided that it was causing me too much grief. Better for my sanity. Somewhere in the mess I have in my storage shed, I may have one of those magnifier headsets. I used to do stone cutting on a diamond wheel until my eyes gave out for such precise work. Getting older is in some ways great, and in other ways, a real drag when it comes to health like vision and the pesky Sir Arthuritis Grin that constantly keeps me company. Sir Charlie Horse also decides once in a while to visit me. Gee! What an honour. Grin

As for my next project, I was building the Boomer because I needed to replace my squashed Souper 30. So I've broken out a Majestyk, and am now in the process of studying it and weighing wood. I will start another thread on the Majestyk. I've heard from many that this model is very well designed and flys great. Designer is Thom Greenhalge.

Caley On to less frustrating endeavours, I hope.

That be me.... I'll check in regular. The Majestyk wing is also built with the inside edge of the TE lifted. If you don't want to build it that way, build it FLAT! It will still fly very well. If you have questions Caley, don't hesitate to ask. I'll be around.

Enjoy, Thom
Logged
danberry
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 17
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 987



Ignore
« Reply #61 on: November 17, 2009, 06:18:30 PM »

Clint, i understand what you mean about thickness of wood. It gets sanded to thickness and light wood just makes the problem worse. And, a rainy day can have an effect on wood. And I am awestruck at the increasing angle technique.

Caley, here's a trick for fitting ribs into notches. You've gotta check that the notch is wide enough. Check with a scrap off-cut from the sheet that ribs were on. Don't fool with the rib until the notch is good. Emery boards are very handy for making notches bigger.
Logged
crashcaley
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 243
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 5,328




Ignore
« Reply #62 on: November 17, 2009, 06:27:09 PM »

Dan, I've a file that is exactly 1'16 thick with rasp on all four sides. It's perfect for my making of notches. I did use it to widen the notches on the Boomer as mentioned. But I am finished with the Boomer and moving on to save my sanity. I am two dimensional in my visualisation. That makes it difficult to build things like the Boomer which are set up in three dimensions for building.

Caley
Logged

What's stall speed?  Undecided
Olbill
Titanium Member
*******

Kudos: 71
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 2,617



Ignore
« Reply #63 on: November 18, 2009, 01:53:08 AM »

here is a link to the explanation

http://www.gizmogeezer.com/p30.htm

Out of curiosity I just went to this site and looked at the description of the GG front end. I had it in my mind that this unit would cost $50 or more with all the technology that is involved. The $9.95 price seems amazing. I'd like to build a Boomer but there are a bunch of other projects ahead of it in line.
Logged
danberry
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 17
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 987



Ignore
« Reply #64 on: November 18, 2009, 09:03:29 AM »

The GG front end is a brilliant piece of engineering.
Logged
faif2d
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 32
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 1,287


Sun came up I was here to see it = good day



Ignore
« Reply #65 on: November 18, 2009, 09:44:59 AM »

I had one of the flip up magnifiers that I inherited from my dad. I did not like using it so, on a whim, I purchased a pair of 1.50 magnification reading glasses from Wal Mart. I simply put those on over my regular glasses. It works a treat! Kind of like having trifocals that you can take off. Caley give that a try if you want, I think I paid $7 for my last pair.
Logged

I used to like painting with dope but now I can't remember why!    Steve Fauble
DerekMc
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 55
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 1,538

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #66 on: November 18, 2009, 12:03:13 PM »

The GG front end is a brilliant piece of engineering.

So true!
Logged

They fly better when you smile!
Derek
crashcaley
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 243
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 5,328




Ignore
« Reply #67 on: November 18, 2009, 12:12:51 PM »

Steve, I've seen those magnifying glasses you describe. I will give it a try next month when I have some cash for it, that is, if they have something that will work for me.

Caley
Logged

What's stall speed?  Undecided
Graiskye
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 20
Offline Offline

Canada Canada

Posts: 427




Ignore
« Reply #68 on: November 18, 2009, 04:59:17 PM »

Quote
Out of curiosity I just went to this site and looked at the description of the GG front end. I had it in my mind that this unit would cost $50 or more with all the technology that is involved. The $9.95 price seems amazing. I'd like to build a Boomer but there are a bunch of other projects ahead of it in line.

Yes they are a great deal, when you consider that you will pay 3.00 for a 9.5" prop, they are even a better deal.

I think Orv Olm(the creator, Mr Gizmo hisself) wanted a low price that the average guy can deal with and they work every bit as awesome as you would think it SHOULD.

Caley, don't sweat it, you tried, move on to brighter pastures. You do seem to have a knack for attracting the kit designers, as in Oltime Flyer there, hint hint...(Majestyk).

That said should the Majestyk not really beckon you at this moment, there are a number of shall we say beefier P-30's, there's that one that I thin was designed by Bob Schlosberg(or maybe he just modeled it), its got a great big ol classic type fuse, and is said to be a great flyer, I know I saw it on a thread here or at SFA (Ill try to find it).

Then there is always the roll your own approach, something I know you could take on Caley, there's not too much too a P-30, fuse, 30" wing, and a tail section, you might even be able to make use of old parts, I'm just throwing ideas out there. But the Majestyk is a awesome kit, if your stoked to build it, go for it.

And have fun,
-Grais.
Logged

"When I think of something monumentally witty, Ill let you know, till then you'll have to amuse yourselves."
Graiskye
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 20
Offline Offline

Canada Canada

Posts: 427




Ignore
« Reply #69 on: November 18, 2009, 11:01:09 PM »

For the sake of completeness(?)...

The Model I was trying to think of was the Dippity Doo, by Dick Williamson.

Heres a link to the Windy Sock bit on it.... http://www.windysock.net/09Sep%20article%20DH71%20Tiger%20Moth_Dippity-Doo.htm

Looks like a fun model, probably bang out a nice light one without too much fight. I saw a pic of the one by B.S. and it was nice, I seem to think it had LG on it but, you see so many pics of models nowadays!

-G
Logged

"When I think of something monumentally witty, Ill let you know, till then you'll have to amuse yourselves."
crashcaley
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 243
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 5,328




Ignore
« Reply #70 on: November 18, 2009, 11:26:20 PM »

Thanks Grais for the link to the Dippidy-Do plan. I kind of like the fatso looking airplanes of the past. They have character. I read the article, and it seems that if you don't build really light, flights aren't that long with a P-30 10 gram motor. But it does give consistent flights and is apparently a blast to fly.

Caley
Logged

What's stall speed?  Undecided
jswain
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 5
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 161



Ignore
« Reply #71 on: April 06, 2013, 05:12:20 PM »

Sent Clint Brooks this flight report for the Boomer.
Hi Clint,Test flew the Boomer out at Perris today, third flight, first with near full winds in the
cool, tissue sagging damp, pre sun morning, using 9.5g 4 strand 1/8" motor DTed at 4
1/2 min for a +5 min flight. Fun! Will post copy of this E-Mail on the Hip Pocket site.
Richard

Hello Richard and Clint.
Richard, fast forward a few years and i had a similar experience today out at Perris. With my newly finish Boomer i did a few test flights with sanding the front of the fuse motor tube and by the 4th flight the model was DT'ing off @750 turns of the motor. The fifth flight was a success, dt'ing from about 100yards high and time to pack it in with a big smile on my face Grin.

I dont' have anything to add to these Boomer build logs but i will say i learned and relearned a lot building this Boomer "by the book" and Clints instructions. This is my first open frame rubber power FF model built in 20years and i feel very lucky to have picked this model.

I did substitute the kit prop for the Peck prop(lighter by 1 gram and belief to be more compatable with my low power/long run= less drag/more altitude philosophy) and 3 full loops of 1/8" rubber. The DT is a hobbyspecialties.com spring and medium viscous timer combination - when stretched to about 3.1" you can get a slow and dependable 2 minute dt time using the Boomer mousetrap DT - this was something Clint talks about and was new to me as i was a 'burning fuse' user.

Thanks again for the Boomer build and tips posting and model kit, john s.
Logged
hoogie007
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 2
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 113



Ignore
« Reply #72 on: April 08, 2013, 02:27:46 PM »

Very cool John.  I'm glad you are on the road to having a great experience with your Boomer.

An FYI-the design is being upgraded to a MkIII configuration right now, and will be re-introduced later this year.  I'm after enhancements to make it easier to produce and also reduce weight, incorporate the wing D/T concept and other minor mods to simplify and improve performance.

In the meantime, keep 'em flying!

Thermals
Clint
Logged
MikeM
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 0
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 26



Ignore
« Reply #73 on: October 12, 2013, 06:36:40 PM »

Guys/Gals, Clint now has a MK III version out for this design.
as a dedicated AMA gas flyer i have never had time to fly rubber, but this design sets a standard in my book, and has hooked me into rubber.
the kit is unbelievable.
i have always built from plans, but if FF kits were all done like this one, i'd build from kits anyday.
the wood selection and hardware is top quality and you can tell that Clint goes to great lengths to see to it that it is a trouble free build. even the ribs for the rudder have the angle cut in so that one just has to dry fit, then glue it up......Duco cement here too guys/gals.
i have 2 of the kits and wasn't going to start until a couple weeks from now, but like i said, the craftsmanship that went into the kit just begs to be built, and so they are on the board.
i will be glad to do a followup on the finishing of these 2 models.

i was also lucky to meet with Clint at the last USFFC's this year and watched his and a friends Boomer fly..........all i can say is, be ready for a marathon of flights..........this thing hooks thremals like shootin fish in a barrel.

i'll be asking Clint later for permission to scale one up for the Big E event..........should make a killer model in that size.
Logged
hoogie007
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 2
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 113



Ignore
« Reply #74 on: October 23, 2013, 12:15:06 AM »

Mike is very kind with his endorsment of the Boomer-thank you very much.  I would like to announce the Boomer Mk3 is now available to order through my website at www.cbmodeldesigns.com.  Many thanks as well to Joe Mekina for his hard work in upgrading the site for the new version and general revamping.

I have upgraded this design by incorporating the wing pop-up D/T system as a standard design feature.  I've also incorporated the Gizmogeezer freewheeler prop as standard equipment as I have nothing but praise for the advanatages this device offers for performance and consistency.

The general changes have resulted in a design that is just about guaranteed to build underweight coming out of the box if built and equipped as shown.  Some build features are simplified such as the horizontal stab and a different stab platform that also serves to anchor the fin, much as done for the Monarch design.  The wing and empennage are the same with the exception the wing has been updated a bit for the D/T features at the center section.

As for flying qualities-these remain top notch.  The first contest outing was the recent USFFC at Lost Hills and the Mk3 did not disappoint.  Please visit the website for a wealth of images and data for the new Mk3 Boomer.

Many thanks to all of you who have purchased kits-your support and responses have been very encouraging toward keeping this little operation going.

Thermals

Clint Brooks
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Up
Print
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!