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Author Topic: F7f Tigercat plan by Dick Howard  (Read 2687 times)
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Pat D
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« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2019, 09:37:31 AM »

here here !

that really is very clever

Pat !
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Crabby
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« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2019, 10:14:11 AM »

If you told me that was what you were gonna try I'd be a doubting Thomas. Now I gotta start feverishly collecting drinking straws before they are outlawed.
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Duncan McBride
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« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2019, 09:18:27 PM »

Got some flights in at Palm Bay this morning.  Tricky to launch one-handed but the plane handled it just fine.  The turn widens as the power burst winds down.  Still ends up gliding either way depending on which prop freewheels better.  The little plastic bobbins work ok, but there is still some random bunching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9_ir3GG1i0
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MKelly
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« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2019, 10:32:37 PM »

Great flight Duncan!  I need to try some of those straw bobbins...

Mike
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« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2019, 01:39:01 AM »

Very impressive Duncan!
John
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Walt
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« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2019, 10:32:13 PM »

Duncan- beautiful flights on the twin and Jimmy Allen!  Thanks for posting the videos. Great work!
Wally
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FLYACE1946
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« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2019, 06:37:55 PM »

That is a great flying location. Sure would like to make it down there sometime. My old friend George Perryman went there often. Usually right after family get togethers around Christmas time. Sure do miss talking to him.

Allen
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FLYACE1946
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« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2020, 04:45:22 PM »

I want to do a Tigercat but first up will be my Piper Navajo . Gotta do that first.
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FLYACE1946
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« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2020, 07:20:17 PM »

I just have to ask this question: On the plan for the F7F-1 Tigercat Dick shows two sticks that are hatched. Is this done on each side of the fuselage? I know to use the 1/20 th size sticks and 1/32 sheet balsa for the bulkheads. I need to see (if at all possible)what the crucifix style looks like for this project. I must be over thinking it somehow.
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Duncan McBride
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« Reply #34 on: July 10, 2020, 12:26:05 PM »

I couldn't figure it out either.  I ended up cutting some regular bulkheads and putting on stringers.
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Indoorflyer
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« Reply #35 on: July 10, 2020, 12:27:06 PM »

Those cross hatched strips go down the center of the fuselage--they form the central keel that captures the cross member of each bulkhead/station. Earlier in this topic, the Sep 1985 Model BUilder magazine was mentioned as a ref for this type of fuselage construction.

In the view of the bulkhead/former, you can see the two beams in the center, one above the other

EDIT: here's my take on it:

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Re: F7f Tigercat plan by Dick Howard
« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 01:55:45 PM by Indoorflyer » Logged
FLYACE1946
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« Reply #36 on: July 10, 2020, 01:12:35 PM »

Thank You that is just what I needed to see. Thanks a bunch. Indoorflyer did you draw this up yourself or was it in the Model Builder magazine column?
« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 01:28:21 PM by FLYACE1946 » Logged
Indoorflyer
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« Reply #37 on: July 10, 2020, 01:46:12 PM »

Hi Flyace--I just made a very quick sketch on a scratch pad---Once you see the keel  the "Aha" moment strikes!  The keel with its "arms" forms the cruciform spine.   It's a very interesting design, should be pretty rigid, since the bulkheads have a triangular skeleton, and the oval fuselage cross section is created with thin sheet pieces attached to the legs of the triangles. (Don't know why my picture is rotated 90 degrees, maybe I should use my phone to crop and rotate it)

EDIT:  rotated the image in Post #35
« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 01:57:46 PM by Indoorflyer » Logged
FLYACE1946
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« Reply #38 on: July 10, 2020, 06:23:29 PM »

I really like the sketch you did. Helps a lot. 
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Indoorflyer
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« Reply #39 on: July 10, 2020, 06:35:04 PM »

Thanks--glad it helps folks visualize the thing.  That Tigercat is a perfect subject for a rubber FF model. Nacelles are roomy enough for decent size rubber motors.  The fuselage construction is optimized for the twin layout--it wouldn't work for a standard single engine type with the rubber going through the middle of the fuselage.  A CAD drawing of the entire fuselage would be a helpful building aid...
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Duncan McBride
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« Reply #40 on: July 11, 2020, 07:45:02 AM »

I'm looking at the plan and now I remember the problems I had with the built-up bulkheads.  One question about your sketch - it shows a top and a bottom bulkhead but they aren't at the same station.  How would you have a top and bottom bulkhead at the same position - they would have to share a common crosspiece.  I confess I didn't get that far.  Once I realized I would have to assemble the top bulkheads over the top view and then attach the laminated top keel and rudder on top of those and keep that all straight, I punted and made a traditional bulkhead and stringer fuselage.  Took all of twenty minutes, it's pretty small after all.  Wink
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Indoorflyer
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« Reply #41 on: July 11, 2020, 10:00:53 AM »

I "think" the best approach is to approach this somewhat like a nocal, starting with a flat center "core" with an upper and a lower section.  The upper cross hatched strip is the bottom of the upper section, the lower cross hatched is the upper part of the lower section.  The "cruciform" cross pieces are captured between the upper and lower cross hatched "beams".   You are correct, the upper and lower bulkheads share a common cross piece at the beltline of the fuselage.  This is how I see it, maybe Mr. Howard thought otherwise.... (quick sketch while eating my cereal.  CAD= Cheerios Assisted Drawing)
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Re: F7f Tigercat plan by Dick Howard
Re: F7f Tigercat plan by Dick Howard
« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 10:24:41 AM by Indoorflyer » Logged
LASTWOODSMAN
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« Reply #42 on: July 11, 2020, 10:12:31 AM »

Could you guys please post a pic of the plan for us to follow along?  Thanks.  Smiley

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« Reply #43 on: July 11, 2020, 10:24:12 AM »

Edited my previous post to include the plan next to my sketch.
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LASTWOODSMAN
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« Reply #44 on: July 11, 2020, 10:45:54 AM »

Well,   thanks for the pic of the plan Indoorflyer.   Now I am even more confused about what those two  crosshatched lines are ...   what are they ?    Huh   I cannot figure it out from the plan cross section,  so I guess I am really just a newbie ...  Wink

LASTWOODSMAN
Richard
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Indoorflyer
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« Reply #45 on: July 11, 2020, 10:54:37 AM »

Read Post #41 again--compare my sketch to the plan.  The cross hatched strips are the bottom of the upper section, and the top of the lower section. The space between them is the thickness of the cross pieces that are captured between the upper and lower frameworks.
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Indoorflyer
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« Reply #46 on: July 11, 2020, 11:10:38 AM »

The red lines represent the cross hatched strips that are running through the middle of the fuselage.
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Re: F7f Tigercat plan by Dick Howard
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LASTWOODSMAN
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« Reply #47 on: July 11, 2020, 11:35:45 AM »

     Hi Indoorflyer.   Thanks, now I think I see it.    You are making me sharpen my pencils and get out a fresh piece of paper ...  I'm surprised no CAD expert out there,   just whipped off an ISO view  Cool  of this assembly for us ...
     If you are right (you are right),  about the two crosshatched centerline pieces, that they lay on the top and bottom of the sq. fuse crossmembers,  then on the fuse side view,  should not these sq. crossmembers show up (right and left sides only of the square penciled in by the draughtsman),  instead of pure air between the crossmembers ?
     Where is my pencil?    I feel the urge to draw ...

LASTWOODSMAN
Richard
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Indoorflyer
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« Reply #48 on: July 11, 2020, 12:12:22 PM »

This plan is what I consider a big-picture "Builder's drawing".  It illustrates the conceptual layout of this model, details are left to the builder.  And yeah, small details got left out of the plan in the interest of simplicity. Leaving out the side view of the cross pieces actually made it easier for me to visualize an upper and lower framework that aren't initially connected together.  They don't come into play when the upper and lower frameworks are assembled on the plan. Also, Mr. Howard didn't give specific wing mounting "instructions."  A scratch builder often figures things out as they go.  Part of the creative process and all that.  Duncan came up with a great solution that worked for him--  

My sketch is simply an illustration of how I would approach this build, there are probably a number of different ways to do it.  Whatever floats your boat!

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Tim the model builder
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« Reply #49 on: July 11, 2020, 12:13:13 PM »

I think you guys are sussing out a workable build here.
I have an alternate to propose, just changing a couple of the recommended steps in this conversation.

To begin, I'll refer to the frame assembled from the top view, and two keels, upper and lower, built over the side views.
After building one of each, leave the top view frame pinned to the building board.
Attach the upper keel centered and plumb to the frame and add the bulkhead sticks and sheet at each numbered frame station per plan.
Now you've got a sub-assembly with some torsional rigidity.
Remove and invert this subassembly after the glue sets onto some standoffs of a height adequate to clear the upper keel.
I'm thinking simple scrap sheet wood  pinned to the board between 3 or 4 of the bulkhead stations.
Now add the lower keel to the frame and bulkhead sticks and sheet for each frame station.
This gets you pretty close to a fuselage ready for stringers.
I dont think stringers before you get this far, as that would interfere with the jigging before you get the lower keel attached and framed.

Make sense?
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