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Author Topic: Can Anyone Identify this ARF (sorta Playboy)  (Read 722 times)
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Pit
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« on: October 18, 2016, 11:34:40 AM »

I picked this up at the model fleamarket at the beginning of this month for a decent price - 60 inch span and about a pound ready to fly, just add receiver and battery.  The owner (an elderly gent) had set everything up, but never flew it due to eyesight issues.

The model was offered here a few years ago (around 2010) and I wanted to get one then, but couldn't spare the cash - it sold for about 120 Euros, IIRC.  Can't really afford that much of an outlay today, but...I got it a LOT cheaper Grin and, welll...Ihaddahaveit Roll Eyes Cheesy.

I just can't remember what it was called (Slicker or Slipper keeps popping into my head :-/), and it might have been marketed under a different moniker in other countries...
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« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2016, 12:09:15 PM »

Hello Pit, have found this here: https://www.amazon.de/Arkai-Rh%C3%B6n-Antikgleiter-RC-Segelflugzeuge-1540/dp/B004TLKN6C
The model was also offered at E-Bay under the Name "Rhön Gleiter".

Heinz
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« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2016, 12:30:49 PM »

The model was offered here a few years ago (around 2010) and I wanted to get one then, but couldn't spare the cash - it sold for about 120 Euros, IIRC.  Can't really afford that much of an outlay today, but...I got it a LOT cheaper Grin and, welll...Ihaddahaveit Roll Eyes Cheesy.
Can't help with the ID, but I sure can see why you had to have it! Looks real nice and a clean.
Really like that the airfoil is thin and it looks like the most (if not all) of the under-camber has been removed.
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« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2016, 03:34:53 PM »

Thanks Heinz.  Tobias, on RCNetwork clued me in.  I thought that this particular version was Plug and Play directly from ARKAI, but they only offered the completed 'empty' plane.

There was another, same size version that came with all electricky parts - except battery and receiver - and a slightly different tail group, more akin to the Playboy Sr. - at a much higher price.

Konrad, the model is a MODERN take based on proven Old Timer designs, leaning heavily on the Playboy.  My model is called the Roehn Antikgleiter and it does have an undercambered wing - not as pronounced as the 'foil of the Playboy, and the Roehn airfoil is very thin.  You also have to remember that this is NOT designed for aerobatics, but for RELAXED old-timey type flying (tho some of the antics I saw on the YT vids could give the wrong impression  Roll Eyes.  Don't understand why you knock UC airfoils!  They work great for the purpose that they were used (you've probably never built/flown a SENATOR or a Gollywock despite your credentials).
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« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2016, 05:39:34 PM »

Built all three and flew them in various classes. For RC the bannana airfoils sucks.  Look at any of the L/D curves. I believe the original Zaic's Miss America  has a flat bottom airfoil and as an R/C, R/C assist or oltimer R/C plane will out soar any under cambered model in the same class (weight and size). That is covering ground with the minimum of altitute loss searching for lift (rising air). True most of us love the lines of of Elgini's Playboys.

Glad to learn that the airfoil is more in line with moder practices. You will love the improvements, for your RELAXED old-timey type flying.

What credentials? I'm just a toy airplane enthusist.

All the best,
Konrad
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« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2016, 09:58:08 AM »

Again, the aircraft was/is conceived to power up to altitude, cut motor, and glide - in keeping with the "old-timer" theme.  The rc is really intended for the realities of most consumers of this type of design, namely to keep it within small(er) airpatches.  This aircraft is not intended to be flown at high speeds as it is VERY lightly built (370grams empty) - tho it does appear to have a considerable speed envelope - all balsa (except the "cowl"), and the wing sheeting is only 0.8mm, the rest of 2.5 and 3mm.  The videos posted by Arkai and some other users were intended (in some part) to show that the design is fairly tough.  I haven't flown mine yet as the smallest 2S battery that I have is a 1750 (all this needs is 1000).

Yes, I do plan to enjoy some relaxed flying with this and my yet to be completed Comet Sailplane and Super Scorpion (full-sized versions) as a break from sport-scale, (not so) precision aerobatics (RC1, not the new F3a) and EDF foamy rigors.

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I'm just a toy airplane enthusist.

Airplane enthusiast - most definitely, but I would hardly call them "toys" Wink Grin!

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« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2016, 11:15:30 AM »

Just received notification about the CG (surprisingly at 38%) and battery recommendations.  I should go ahead with the 1750 or even a bit higher, as the weight is needed up front.  Now to find specs on the motor (GT - GF2210/30).
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« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2016, 12:41:42 PM »


I'm just a toy airplane enthusist.

Airplane enthusiast - most definitely, but I would hardly call them "toys" Wink Grin!


Reminds me of the movie Flight of the Pheonix. Wink But I purposfully use the term "Toys" in an attempt to down play the notion that some in power now think of these a wepons of mass destruction. :'(  Really they are just toys, complicated toys but just toys nontheless.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Flight_of_the_Phoenix_(1965_film)

As I recall many of these "oldtimers" were balance at 110% of chord. This was as a result of the super downward pitching motion of those undercambered airfoils and the huge oversized stabs.  Just for reference I often balance my models with zero cambered airfoils at 33% of MAC. With the thin slightly cambered airfoil and oversized stab of the Playboy, 38% sounds concervitive.

The often quoted 25% MAC starting point was assuming "normal" sport aerodynamic set ups. "Oldtimers" are often way outside the norm.

"GT 2210/30" sounds like an Emax brand of motor. But a 30 wind would lead one to think is was 800 to 900 Kv motor. That would be nice for spinning a large oldtimer style prop.

All the best,
Konrad
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« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2016, 07:34:37 AM »

Arkai's GT-GF2210/30 does seem to be a re-branded E-MAX (I think that at least 80% of the smaller motors out there are rebrandings).  The /30 is kV rated around 1020 and the /20 at 1580 or thereabouts and the prop range is 7 to 10 inches.  The prop that is on the plane is a Graupner 9 x 5 E-Prop, near the upper limit (10 x 5), so I'll be running on two cells for starters unless the Watt Meter shows that a 3 cell will work.

Raining and cold now, with no change expected for the next 4 days so I'll be soldering connectors and covering my Citabria...
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« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2016, 11:23:55 AM »

Good to know. May I ask how you came up with the XX/30 being 1020kV and the XX/20 being 1580kV?

With the global economy the ugly truth of the matter is that about 80% of all chinesse model out-runners are made in about 5 or 6 factories. I’m not saying that all the products from any one factory are the same quality. This is highly dependent on the contract the OEM has with their customer. For example magnets and wire insulation are easily changed within a design. With modern machining centers most components can be changed with no need to change the tooling (the magic of CNC code). But most stators are made from stamping dies (yes they can be made with a water jet) and as such are a good indicator of the OEM as dies are hard tooling.

!!! As these are Chinesse web sites have your virus scans up to date!!!

EMAX, YinYan Model, LoongMax ( -Also sold as: Turnigy "Typhoon" heli motors, Giant Shark "E-Power" ): http://www.yinyanmodel

SunRay Technology Co., Ltd. Shenzhen: http://sunraytechnology.com

Zhuhai Huamai Electronics and Model, also called: Chinahimark http://www.chinahimark.com/

Suppo Model http://www.suppomodel.com/

Scorpion: http://www.scorpionsystem.com

Shenzhen Feisuda Motor factory - www.fsd-motor.com/

Dualsky motors: http://www.dualsky.com/

Aisijie Technology is the previous chinese manufacturer of HACKER outrunner motors V1, before SunRay Technology took over

Other lesser known OEMs
China Topwin Industry Co.,Ltd: http://www.chinatopwin.com/
Chongqing Maitian Mechanical & Electrical Co., Ltd: www.maitian.com.cn/BLMOTOR.htm
Shenzhen Power Motor Industrial Co: http://www.power-motor.com/

P.S.
Sorry for the typos in the earlier post:
It should read: as weapons of mass destruction

concervitive: conservative
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« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2016, 11:45:05 AM »

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Good to know. May I ask how you came up with the XX/30 being 1020kV and the XX/20 being 1580kV?
Got it off a site that had the data as posted (probably Arkai).  Didn't save the site as the motor is no longer available (or so it seems).

Why?

Just a reminder... the other info you posted in the last message, while informative, has nothing to do with the thread.  Almost sounds like "The Dark Knight"...
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« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2016, 12:59:43 PM »

Why?

Just a reminder... the other info you posted in the last message, while informative, has nothing to do with the thread.  Almost sounds like "The Dark Knight"...
Why? Just like you in the Heron thread, inquisitive minds want to know.

Just received notification about the CG (surprisingly at 38%) and battery recommendations.  I should go ahead with the 1750 or even a bit higher, as the weight is needed up front.  Now to find specs on the motor (GT - GF2210/30).

Arkai's GT-GF2210/30 does seem to be a re-branded E-MAX (I think that at least 80% of the smaller motors out there are rebrandings).  The /30 is kV rated around 1020 and the /20 at 1580 or thereabouts and the prop range is 7 to 10 inches.  The prop that is on the plane is a Graupner 9 x 5 E-Prop, near the upper limit (10 x 5), so I'll be running on two cells for starters unless the Watt Meter shows that a 3 cell will work.

Raining and cold now, with no change expected for the next 4 days so I'll be soldering connectors and covering my Citabria...

The data was given as you had some questions about the motor earlier. It was given as a starting point to aid in identifying and finding the electrical constants for the motor in question. You indicated you were looking for this information. So by my read the information (CofG and Motor OEM) was/is inline with the thread and the direction the OP (you) was heading (loooking for information, both about the model and the motor).

You and I seem to have a strong difference in posting style. I try not to belittle the poster (unlike some comments about never flying undercambered airfoils). I try to give direction and supporting info for my possition (opinion). Now if it is too much info, well I'd rather give too much than not enough (again a posting style).

I know you are a leading poster and contributor to this site. But please don't think your style or information is the only valid way to transmit ideas.

Please take this and my other posts for what they are. A good faith attempt to help all, even you, get the most from this fine hobby.

Sorry, you lost me on the Dark Knight (Batman) reference.

All the best,
Konrad
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« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2016, 01:50:13 PM »

Posting style?  Sorry, but if there were other inquisitive minds about where the motors were (possibly) manufactured, I'm positive that those persons would have asked for more info - which would /SHOULD go into its own thread!  The "Why" was in reference to your question about the kV - so you've gotten the context out of kilter (that's why  "Why" was separated from the follow-up comment line by a paragraph space).

Quote
...comments about never flying undercambered airfoils
Did I mention that somewhere???

Quote
But please don't think your style or information is the only valid way to transmit ideas.
I also try to be as helpful as possible, but I prefer to try to let others utilize their own resources to try to find answers - unless I am specifically asked to clear a point, at which point I will usually take the issue backstage (PM/email), or start a new (or link to an existing) thread rather than taking up space on the thread that many will probably skip over.

Yes, we are quite different Wink

Dark Knight - Batman, NOT! (insider reference on another site) Grin

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« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2016, 02:24:44 PM »

Posting style?  Sorry, but if there were other inquisitive minds about where the motors were (possibly) manufactured, I'm positive that those persons would have asked for more info - which would /SHOULD go into its own thread!  The "Why" was in reference to your question about the kV - so you've gotten the context out of kilter (that's why  "Why" was separated from the follow-up comment line by a paragraph space).

Quote
...comments about never flying undercambered airfoils
Did I mention that somewhere???

Quote
But please don't think your style or information is the only valid way to transmit ideas.
I also try to be as helpful as possible, but I prefer to try to let others utilize their own resources to try to find answers - unless I am specifically asked to clear a point, at which point I will usually take the issue backstage (PM/email), or start a new (or link to an existing) thread rather than taking up space on the thread that many will probably skip over.

Yes, we are quite different Wink

Dark Knight - Batman, NOT! (insider reference on another site) Grin


No, the "WHY" was in line with your asking for more info in the Heron thread. I was asking for how you came up with the kV rating for my self edification much like you did about the prop.
A 12 x 6 folder is (usually) fine and the recommended size with this motor on 3S, but I guess you're looking for more usable RPMs with the smaller prop (haven't run the numbers thru MotoCalc yet).  Flex on the 12 x6???  From what company?

curious minds and all that...

Your questioning my "knocking" of undercambered airfoils. With the statement that I've propibly never experianced them. not building Gollywock and the like.
Thanks Heinz.  Tobias, on RCNetwork clued me in.  I thought that this particular version was Plug and Play directly from ARKAI, but they only offered the completed 'empty' plane.

There was another, same size version that came with all electricky parts - except battery and receiver - and a slightly different tail group, more akin to the Playboy Sr. - at a much higher price.

Konrad, the model is a MODERN take based on proven Old Timer designs, leaning heavily on the Playboy.  My model is called the Roehn Antikgleiter and it does have an undercambered wing - not as pronounced as the 'foil of the Playboy, and the Roehn airfoil is very thin.  You also have to remember that this is NOT designed for aerobatics, but for RELAXED old-timey type flying (tho some of the antics I saw on the YT vids could give the wrong impression  Roll Eyes.  Don't understand why you knock UC airfoils!  They work great for the purpose that they were used (you've probably never built/flown a SENATOR or a Gollywock despite your credentials).

And yes, inside jokes or reference are best left in the PM's! Or at least give a link so that those of us in the general population can follow along.

All the best,
Konrad
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« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2016, 02:44:01 PM »

Konrad,
You do post some good, relevant data, but your propensity to have "the last word", or a rebuttal to just about anything you feel as relevant (or not) forces me to request that you stay off my threads.

I choose NOT to use the "ignore" button, because, as I mentioned, you DO post some interesting stuff that I would not see if I "ignored" you.

The fact that you have to refer to a totally unrelated thread to justify your comments on THIS thread shows that you have a very thin skin.

Moderators, do as you wish with this thread - most of my questions have been answered elsewhere.
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« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2016, 03:05:09 PM »

For the last word.

I too enjoy your posts, and will NOT place you on my ignore list.

I just reference another thread to show that you and I are much the same. We dig for information to both enhance our enjoyment and hopefully expand the horizons of other.

Actually I have a thick skin as I like these debates.

All the best,
Konrad
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