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Author Topic: VMC cookup?  (Read 21023 times)
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #175 on: August 27, 2017, 02:47:45 AM »

Well done. I've got one in the wings too (so to speak). We may have to have a cookup just for Camels at some point.

[... Biggles Camel hump confusion... ]

Perhaps I should get out more.

No need to get out more Pete.  Luckily I've just noticed that a hilariously funny series of novels (The Bandy Papers) by Donald Jack of a Camel pilot which I first read in the 1970s have just been republished:  'Three Cheers for Me', 'That's Me in the Middle' and 'Its Me Again'.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Three-Cheers-Me-Bandy-Papers/dp/1911440454/ref=pd_sim_14_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=KEKEAXG2QER9R9KAE632
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #176 on: August 27, 2017, 03:33:47 AM »

Hadn't heard of those- might well give them a go. Thanks!
(May have to stay in more!)
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TheLurker
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« Reply #177 on: August 27, 2017, 04:27:42 AM »

Quote from: Jack Plane
...and despite my knowing that the Camel would be much harder to get flying properly...
I think you might be pleasantly surprised with this one.  I've been trimming mine off and on this last day or so and, for one of my builds, I think it's going very well indeed.  One of the very early trimming flights was almost bang on, gob-smackingly, perfect after which things have reverted to normal.  Hey ho, t'was ever thus. Smiley

Here's a couple of trimming flights from last night.  As you'd expect quite a bit of stall / recovery and short duration.  I could have tinkered with the trim a bit more but my camera operator, MrsLurker, was threatening mutiny and the light was fading very fast so the choice was between getting some footage and sorting out the trim.   I chose getting some footage cos camera operators are hard to get and I thought it might be of passing interest hereabouts.   Smiley

Wind speed           0MPH.  (Total utter dead flat calm)
Motor wind count.  Somewhere around about 70 odd - I wasn't counting tsk, tsk

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/36684819451/in/album-72157683218588084/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/36653834362/in/album-72157683218588084/

Interesting to note that I was getting better flights on Friday afternoon with a very, very light breeze rather than last night's flat calm on the same sort of motor wind count.  I expect I was getting extra initial lift from breeze.
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TheLurker
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« Reply #178 on: August 28, 2017, 04:05:31 PM »

Some Camel trimming notes.  Mainly for Pete F's info. not sure if it'll be any help for the CO2 variant Jack P's planning.

Wind speed 0MPH
Motor turns ~ 120 (lost count - talking to MrsLurker)
Ballast 10g + additional blu-tack as attachment.  Haven't weighed it yet but it's only going to be a gramme or two.
Downthrust as attachment
Flight video at URL below. Not the best flight, but repeatable and reasonably representative on that sort of turn count.

FWIW the Camel is proving far, far easier to trim than a recent, profile, rubber model I built.

If this isn't the right thread please tell me to sling my hook.
Chr$
Lurk


https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/36041754434/in/album-72157683218588084/

P.S  Ignore the capering idiot in the hat.  He always turns up, no idea who he is. Cheesy
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #179 on: August 29, 2017, 02:40:50 AM »


Motor turns ~ 120...If this isn't the right thread please tell me to sling my hook...  P.S  Ignore the capering idiot in the hat.  He always turns up, no idea who he is. Cheesy


I've got the same capering idiot hat, but a different man-bag!   Shocked

Until someone starts a specific VMC Camel thread, then this is exactly the right thread.

Re trimming data, you now need to start putting on several hundreds of turns on a longer lubricated motor, dealing with any initial torque-burst etc.
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DHnut
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« Reply #180 on: August 30, 2017, 04:51:45 AM »

Andrew,
           The Jodel is ready to be trimmed. A photo is attached of the model complete with Peck pilots and I have used ZK-JSC for a colour scheme. The weight came out at 25.5 grms . At our indoor meeting on Monday I gave it a couple of test glides, but stopped as I need to get it over long grass to get the glide sorted out. My thoughts on rubbe is to use about one loop of 0.150" given the light weight.
Esaki tissue was used to cover the model, and after water shrinking there were two coats of very thin Randolf dope to seal the tissue.
I like the way the tail is constructed as the notches give a fixed joint and will reduce the chance of a warp. also the fixing for the undercarriage is neat and strong. The wheels are balsa and I will use magnets to hold the nose plug in as there will need to be some ballast in the nose.
I really enjoyed the build.
Ricky       
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« Reply #181 on: August 30, 2017, 06:19:03 AM »

Great Stuff.  I love the pilots, they are very much right for the spirit of these models - fun to build and to bring about a grin when flown!  I think that the large canopy probably deserves a couple of faces so it doesn't look so empty, it is very big, I think that Mike Stuart suggested that and I think he is right.

Pleased that you enjoyed it.  It means a lot to me when folks have fun with them  Grin

Andrew
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #182 on: August 30, 2017, 06:21:08 AM »


Pleased that you enjoyed it.  It means a lot to me when folks have fun with them  Grin


And we're so happy for you too!   Cheesy
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #183 on: September 04, 2017, 12:57:44 PM »

Very nice Jodel, Ricky. Looks just right.

My boy is home from hospital and doing well, so I can now crack on with finishing off the SE5. Coaming added and a few token dashboard instruments which will hopefully count as the "small details" "added if desired" which Andrew has cunningly written on the plan to thwart zealous Kit Scale judges looking to give penalties (I'm kidding- they do a great job!)
 
I'll do the pilot next. He'll be based on a photo of the real one- a chap named Muir. Should be slightly easier to fit him in place before the top wing goes on.
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #184 on: September 04, 2017, 01:22:59 PM »

This is Muir. He finished second in the 1921 race, but presumably wore a flying helmet so ear drag wasn't a factor...
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« Reply #185 on: September 04, 2017, 01:48:00 PM »

Is it Frank?  Wink

(he would only been one year old, joking aside ... but was in the RAF)

Please model him with his head facing down .... he must have gained an advantage in this way? ....
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #186 on: September 04, 2017, 01:50:48 PM »

Ricky, that looks super!

The Kid and I look forward to hearing more about indoor trimming.   Cheesy  Cheesy
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« Reply #187 on: September 04, 2017, 02:00:47 PM »

Forgot to say .... all the models looking good in this thread.
Thought I had won a VMC kit in the raffle at Peterborough yesterday ... right number ticket ... wrong colour  Sad
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« Reply #188 on: September 04, 2017, 02:03:10 PM »

Pete very good news about your boy.  One never knows when something like that can go wrong, glad that he came out OK.
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #189 on: September 04, 2017, 02:17:50 PM »

Pete very good news about your boy.  One never knows when something like that can go wrong, glad that he came out OK.
Thanks!

Russ, did you take any pics at Peterborough yesterday? I did drop a big hint on the went flying thread last night. I'm curious to know how many Elves there were too, for the Aeromodeller record attempt photo. Would certainly have brought mine if circs had allowed.
Sorry, I'm diverting this thread, but I'll bring it back on track shortly with a very poor attempt at pilot carving. Never mind Muir's ears, I'll be lucky if he has anything recognisable as a head. 1/20 scale is just too small for me to get any proper features into blue foam. Richard Crossley must have sold his soul to Satan or something.
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« Reply #190 on: September 04, 2017, 03:13:27 PM »

Pete,
Yes, I guessed that it would be hard for you to attend.
Lots of Elves ... lots of Elves flying very well too.
I was judging 'prop driven' scale on the day .... slow for entries for a start, but I had to wait. I did get a bit of a rush from 2.00pm onwards.
It meant that the camera stayed in the car again  Sad
PMFC Mick Page was taking lots of photos and it was good to see Andrew Boddington there too.
I would say to keep a watch on the PMFC website ... and the Aeromodeller!

I think Richard Crossley is more 'saint' material?! I leave the suitable names to others!

(Glad to hear that your lad is recovering well ... we had a similar worry with my daughter-in-law recently.
Very close to the situation of your son, but operated on at over seven months pregnant. Thankfully all doing well now.)


 
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TheLurker
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« Reply #191 on: September 04, 2017, 03:41:43 PM »

Looks good Pete.  None of that cheating with printed dashboards for you I see.  You've done your instrument panel properly.  Chapeau.

Lurk.
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #192 on: September 04, 2017, 04:19:03 PM »

...Lots of Elves ... lots of Elves flying very well too....
PMFC Mick Page was taking lots of photos and it was good to see Andrew Boddington there too.
I would say to keep a watch on the PMFC website ... and the Aeromodeller!

Cheers, Russ. Yes, very good to hear that Andrew B was there.  I look in on the Peterborough website most days so will look forward to Mick Page's pics. Mind you, I always find it a  bittersweet experience looking at photos and reports of events I wanted to be at and wasn't. I do like seeing the other models, but don't like being reminded of what I missed!  

Ah well, plenty still to look forward too.

(Lurks, thanks but it's only a 'proper' instrument panel so long as you don't look at any real SE5 cockpit photos!)
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« Reply #193 on: September 04, 2017, 07:26:23 PM »

Thank you all for the kind words. Trimming has started with the addition of 1.5 gm of nose weight and I am using a 12" loop of 0.170 rubber as a starting point. A test glide on the back lawn sans motor look looked promising so it will off to local park for the next stage. We have an indoor meeting at Morrinsville on the 8 October in a double basket court sized hall so I hope to flt it their. Also a recovered Veron Comper should be ready as well. I have taken the old painted tissue off and replaced it with dark blue Esaki. I must address thecomper pilot issue as only a head is needed.
Ricky
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #194 on: September 05, 2017, 03:52:47 PM »

Sorry, I'm diverting this thread, but I'll bring it back on track shortly with a very poor attempt at pilot carving...

Pilot as promised, although in the event I surpassed myself. Apart from maybe the nose, every feature of his carefully carved face is an exact likeness of the real R K Muir. It's probably even better than Richard Crossley could have done. Unfortunately, I took a photo as I started but then forgot to take another until I'd covered most of my amazingly skillful handiwork with goggles and scarf so you'll have to take my word for it.

(The scarf, btw, is in authentic St Catharine's colours, which was Muir's college at Cambridge.)
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« Reply #195 on: September 05, 2017, 04:18:29 PM »

Hidden behind those goggles and that scarf, he looks .... er ... a little demuir .....
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« Reply #196 on: September 05, 2017, 04:25:09 PM »

Pete great color how did you hit that? As for the pilot, that's a nose I like to have full of nickels!
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« Reply #197 on: September 06, 2017, 07:43:43 AM »

Thanks, Crabby. If you mean the brown tissue, then it's the stuff which comes with the kit.

Top wing on (very satisfyingly, it it fitted perfectly onto the cabane struts due to them having perfectly positioned with their jigs earlier on). Once the glue dries, I'll add the lower wings using their pre-made jigs. All very straightforward so far.

Meanwhile, I'm finishing off the nose block. I'm using the supplied black prop which I've now painted. The supplied propshaft, however, has a round hook which I'm inclined to swap for the diamond hooked shaft shown. Also, on the plan there is no suggestion to add a washer or bead behind the prop. Usually I put a bead here, which adds another 1/8" or so to the nose (and possibly reduces friction?). Is there any reason not to do this in this case?
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« Reply #198 on: September 06, 2017, 10:54:22 AM »

No reason at all, I just don't bother.

My view is that as the prop has a sort of ball end and is low friction plastic anyhow.  If you had a carved wooden one you would definitely need the bead to provide a suitable contact surface.  I do drop some castor oil on the parts though, that really does noticeably help things run better.

I suppose a good side effect is pushing the prop further out to reduce the nose-weight a bit, at the expense of maybe some more "shaft wobble"?

Andrew
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #199 on: September 06, 2017, 11:27:02 AM »

It's just habit really, but I'll probably leave the bead off then as it doesn't exactly add to the scale appearance. Am I right though, in thinking my diamond hook centres the motor better than the supplied round one?
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