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Author Topic: Howard Boys 1/12 Lysander (50")  (Read 5562 times)
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LASTWOODSMAN
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REAL PLANES HAD ROUND ENGINES AND TWO WINGS



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« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2019, 02:29:31 PM »

BRITISH GRENADIERS  This is the song with lyrics.  I also play it on accordion.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=BRITISH+GRENEDIERS+LYRICS&&view=detail&mid=6E4E33C17B970D7EF0E66E4E33C17B970D7EF0E6&&FORM=VRDGAR

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Richard
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OH, I HAVE SLIPPED THE SURLY BONDS OF EARTH ... UP, UP THE LONG DELIRIOUS BURNING BLUE ... SUNWARD I'VE CLIMBED AND JOINED THE TUMBLING MIRTH OF SUN-SPLIT CLOUDS ...
ZK-AUD
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« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2019, 02:46:02 PM »

Well done Team UK!  Cracked it for sure.  I've played in enough brass bands that I should have worked that one out for myself!
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2019, 04:54:59 PM »

I play British Grenadiers on concertina. It's one of the tunes my wife's ladies' morris team dance to, but generally we don't sing it. Not sure the words would quite match the flowery hats, bells and general hippiness of the whole set up...

(And Lurks, yes, good primary schools do still do singing lessons. Best part of my job these days!)
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ZK-AUD
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« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2019, 01:12:39 PM »

Well folks here we go.  I made a start on the wings yesterday.  First job was to build a jig as you see.  Second was to position the 23 ribs to check for fit and straightness of the spar notches.  On the whole not too bad.  7 of the inboard ribs needed to be extended and one was 1/16 too low on the top surface.  This is why you save the waste wood when you get things laser cut - its a simple matter to glue the 'waste' back around the rib or other part,  and then re-cut and sand to suit.  If you look closely in the photos you can see that rib - it's #5 from the root.  Ka pai as we say down here!
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DavidJP
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« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2019, 04:54:15 AM »

Cor......and no plan either!
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2019, 06:11:33 AM »

Ka pai Mike!

What, by the way, is your pin-board?
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ffscale
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« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2019, 02:35:46 PM »

Oooo, that's lovely!

Going to be watching this build with great interest.

Mike S
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ZK-AUD
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« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2019, 05:02:46 PM »

Ka pai Mike!

What, by the way, is your pin-board?

Well,  actually it's one of the original cupboard doors I took off the house when we re-modelled.  I don't pin into this - I pin into the balsa blocks glued to it that form the wing jig.    The beauty of this cupboard door is that back in the 60's they were a laminated sandwich of 2mm ply with a 20mm pine interior.   They are very straight and flat and seem to remain that way,  so they're ideal for larger models.   I do intend to glue some cork tiles to one and see how that goes,  but as I jig-build almost everything it's not a problem as-is.

Also,  rather than encumber my modelling bench I can throw projects around the workshop as required
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Kiwi
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« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2019, 11:45:50 PM »

Superb drawings those.

Anyone know why it was called the Lysander?
Most British aircraft and engines were named on a theme, Army Co-op aircraft were named after ancient military leaders (Lysander, Ajax, Hector Audax etc) Hawker fighters were named after wild winds, (Fury, Hurricane, Typhoon, Tempest, Tornado etc) Hawker light "fast" bombers after deer, (Hind,Hart etc)
Heavy bombers named after cities,Lancaster, Halifax, Wellington, Manchester, etc)
When it came to engines Rolls Royce used names of birds of prey (Eagle,  Merlin [Although a magic engine it was named for the bird], Falcon etc) Bristol went for Greek Gods (Pegasus, Mercury, Hercules, Centaurus)
When it cames to jet engines Bristol went for gemstones (Sapphire, Beryl,) whereas Rolls Royce went with Rivers (analogous of the airflow through the engine being like water flowing down a river thus we have Dart, Avon, Conway, Nene, and so forth.
There are a lot of examples from the major companies when you start to look.

In a similar vein from the start of WW2 onwards the US military assigned names to their aircraft for PR purposes as it was found that the general populace related better to names than to the letters and numbers of their official designations.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2019, 12:02:49 AM by Kiwi » Logged
Jack Plane
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« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2019, 12:31:28 AM »

Kudos Kiwi for a succinct and most interesting explanation.
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DavidJP
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« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2019, 04:14:30 AM »

Surprised you did not know that Jon!!  Wink Cheesy. But yes all true.

However there was one case of the “bomber”  “Overstrand” which is a small settlement on the North Norfolk Coast (we have three coasts) and said aeroplane was named that because it is alledged someone in the upper echelons of the MAP had a place there!  But Bolton Paul who had a factory in Norwich seemed to buck the trend and not follow a pattern. The “Defiant” for example. Or Balliol.

I am also pretty sure the “theme” for names was selected by a civil servant acting under orders in MAP.  I have it some where .......
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Kiwi
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« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2019, 04:25:59 AM »

Balliol, being a trainer, fits in with other trainers named after educational establishments or officials, e.g Oxford, Provost, Proctor. Had Defiant been a Hawker product I guess they would have found a "windy" name for it Smiley
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2019, 05:46:10 AM »


Surprised you did not know that Jon!!  Wink Cheesy. But yes all true.


Serves me right for having had a thirty-five year sabbatical from all matters aviation!

Ne'er mind, plenty of time left to remedy that!  Grin
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #38 on: April 07, 2019, 06:05:11 AM »

Kiwi, that is fascinating! There’s probably the potential for a whole book on the subject of aircraft names.

On the related subject of car names, several years ago some wag wrote a letter to Viz comic asking if the Ford motor company were planning to continue their trend of naming cars after men’s adult magazines (Escort, Fiesta). He asked if we could look forward to the Ford Razzle or the Ford Readers’ Wives Special?

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FreeFlightModeller
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Russ Lister



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« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2019, 06:43:10 AM »

Interesting stuff ... as well as the model!

Pete,
I had a Ford Razzle for years ...  Roll Eyes

David,
Anything to do with the large convalescent home there?
My father-in-law had an insurance policy that gave him a few periods of rest there.
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DavidJP
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« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2019, 12:00:31 PM »

No, Russ, but quite an enviable position for such place and must surely have been beneficial!

Good points Kiwi - Defiant? Zephyr?

I wish I could remember where I saw all that on aircraft names - was not a "book" but quite a big article. 

Pete - those magazines you mention some where owned by Paul Raymond and often featured one Fiona Richmond and her adventures in various countries around the world. The reason I know was because for a brief period I was given the task of "vetting" them.  It became very boring (honestly) and I remember on one occasion I was stuck in traffic in London. I was looking at  bundle and looked up to see this lorry driver peering down from his cab looking rather interested. So I have him a handful for which he seemed very grateful. There was also "Mayfair" but the Triumph was before PRs time.

Of course compared with what we can see today the magazines and films etc. produced then were very very soft porn - would go unnoticed almost and certainly not warrant the "top shelf"!

But slightly back on topic I do recall one issue with pictures of model aeroplanes - not that large - being held by young ladies who for some reason were undressed and the model aeroplanes were not very effective in covering their modesty.  Whether one was a Lysander I cannot remember.  Definitely not one as big and the Boys!
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Crabby
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I never met a modeler I didn't like



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« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2019, 12:24:00 PM »

model aeroplanes - not that large - being held by young ladies who for some reason were undressed and the model aeroplanes were not very effective in covering their modesty.  Whether one was a Lysander I cannot remember.  Definitely not one as big and the Boys!

David, now you know the reason behind the popularity of pistachio scale!
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #42 on: April 07, 2019, 01:02:48 PM »

Big apologies to all for triggering David into reminiscing about his sordid past. I really should've guessed that might happen.

On the subject of aircraft names again, there is quite a good Wiki page on the subject here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_military_aircraft_designation_systems
It backs up and adds to what Kiwi was saying with interesting gems like this:
"Aircraft for army co-operation and liaison and gliders were given names associated with mythological or legendary leaders; e.g. Westland Lysander, Airspeed Horsa, General Aircraft Hamilcar, Slingsby Hengist. A sense of irony was present when some of the names were chosen as Hengist and Horsa were the mythical Germanic leaders in the invasions of the British Isles in the 5th century."

(Sorry for all the ongoing distraction, Mike. You'd better build some more of your Lysander pronto and get your thread back on track!)





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ZK-AUD
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« Reply #43 on: April 07, 2019, 02:35:18 PM »

Yes I was beginning to think we'd gone down a bit of a rabbit hole,  or perhaps a bunny, as David JP might have it! 

Not much to report I'm afraid due to a family holiday however normal service resumes tonight after work.  Many thanks to Kiwi(Nev) for a set of very good detail close-ups of the Lysander.  I thought I was well sorted with the Wylam drawings and my Haynes workshop manual but these are the icing on the cake
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3view
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« Reply #44 on: April 07, 2019, 04:02:20 PM »

Don’t forget the Rolls Royce Crecy, a 2stroke V12 engine named after the battle of Crecy.  Rolls Royce chose the theme of battles for their 2 strokes- but only made one- the Crecy which was cancelled due to the arrival of the jet engine

Has Haynes given up with car manuals?

Following the Lysander build with interest

Steve
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kennybflyin
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« Reply #45 on: April 08, 2019, 07:53:27 AM »


Music to build by===== THE BRITISH GRENADIERS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGrxHO-B2TY

kennybflyin
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ZK-AUD
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« Reply #46 on: April 22, 2019, 02:27:17 PM »

No pictures today but just a quick update.  I have now officially abandoned the Howard Boys plan, but I have not abandoned the 50" Lysander scheme.

No iconoclast or de-bunker of myths,  me, but I have come to the conclusion that Mr Boys did not build his model from that plan.  My guess is that he probably designed as he built and that he or someone else  drew the plan for publication later.  There were the obvious inaccuracies around outlines which I was prepared to fix but as I got building I realised that the fuselage sections (while not too inaccurate in shape),  were the wrong dimensions for the internal box structure and the sheeting offsets were wrong.  The wing roots are wrong and percentage to chord also wrong.  Add to that the differences between one wing and the other and I'm afraid I just lost confidence in and patience with, it.

Courtesy of the esteemed brethren on this forum I have the Wylam drawings however when closely compared with detailed factory sketches and photos in the Haynes manual even they contain some surprising inaccuracies.  The 1/24 Aeromodeller prints that Ricky (DHNut) supplied matched the photos perfectly, so to cut a long story short I have enlarged these to 1/12 and that is my new plan

I had made the internal box structure already and the good news is that with some surgery (which I performed last night) the correct sections will fit around it nicely. 

The other change I am making is to build the correct cabane structure which is a kind of triangulated rollover frame not unlike the thing on the top of a PT19,  that sits inside the greenhouse and carries the wings.  As designed, the Boys model has formers that create the cabin shape however I'm guessing he did not have access to a vacuum box  and needed the structure to support various bits of plastic sheeting.  I will be able to save a bit of weight here while also achieveing a more scale representation
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DavidJP
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« Reply #47 on: April 22, 2019, 02:44:29 PM »

Hmmmm....... not a terribly uncommon experience I have found over the years with a variety of plans.  I have also found that referring to authoritative plans - e.g. Wylam  because all kinds of anomalies emerge which can be a bit frustrating!  But that I suppose is the fun part?  I hope not too much of the laser cutting will be wasted.   
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billdennis747
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« Reply #48 on: April 22, 2019, 03:07:39 PM »

But, but......I don´t understand. The advert for the kit in 1939 Aeromodeller says the plan is clear and detailed, ensuring accurate assembly! I suspect a lot of this stuff was drawn by candlelight to avoid the blackout regulations.
Glad you ditched the Wylam drawings. I read somewhere that he deliberately included errors to thwart plastic kit manufacturers!
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DavidJP
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« Reply #49 on: April 25, 2019, 06:00:22 AM »

I know of one person who has admitted to me that for his publications he plagiarises others peoples drawings without checking them for accuracy and so mistakes are perpetuated.  I can understand Wylam incorporating deliberate mistakes - a well know firm who produced maps also did the same so they could prove that their work had been plagiarised. But they were pretty subtle. I was also surprised to learn that many plastic kits were inaccurate. Some of the mistakes unforgivable.

It is also worth noting that certainly in the case of warships the working draughts were often deliberately departed from in the interests of speed and consequently those of a class could all look different.

But inaccuracies in the patterns for parts on a model so they do not fit etc. is a different matter and rather naughty!!  There are inaccuracies in some of the parts on the Keelbild plan but only small, and this easily rectified  and in all probability due to the distortion that has occurred in the copying of the plan. I can say however that the canopy produced by Mike ZK-AUD fits very well.

Photocopies/dyeline prints etc. generally are notoriously inaccurate. 

Bill I don't think the blackout regulations applied when that plan was drawn so they cannot hide behind that one.   
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