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Author Topic: Ornithopters  (Read 1615 times)
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cglynn
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« on: November 11, 2016, 08:40:35 AM »

In an attempt to get out of an indoor rut and find some inspiration to build something, I think I am going to tackle an ornithopter.  I have seen a few plans in Winning Designs USIC, and Indoor flying models, and it is definitely something I can build.  I was wondering if anyone could post some close ups of the drive mechanism for the wings?  I would like to see how all the little wire bits and pieces and what not all work together to make these fascinating craft.

Thanks
CG
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tross
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« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2016, 08:59:46 AM »

Sorry Chris.
I didn't realize you were looking for the indoor mechanism details.
I still wish I could figure out how this guy flies 2 minutes outdoors. Smiley
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EczfOaB8qNU

TR
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 10:33:14 AM by tross » Logged

Instructions: Step One...Assemble the pile of sticks shown in pic "A" to look like the model airplane shown in pic "B"........
NormF
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« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2016, 01:46:26 PM »

Jerky Herky should be a good one to start with. Good clear drawing. It was kitted by Curt Stevens (MRL).  The plan is on Outerzone: http://www.outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=6645

Norm
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cglynn
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« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2016, 02:35:32 PM »

Thanks guys.  I will definitely use that as a starting point.  Looks like a good way to get into the event.  What I am really interested in though, is the mechanism that Frank Kaiser, Roy White, and/or Ray Harlan uses for their tandem models, as something like that is what I would like to really get into.  I found a basic looking plan for one of Harlan's models on the INAV site, but there isn't a whole lot to go on.

Thanks
Chris
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Starduster
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« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2016, 02:36:52 PM »

Yes, I've posted this before, but if you really want to be humbled:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9Nw_TbASgg

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dslusarc
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« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2016, 04:21:28 PM »

My first biplane one was Kaiser's Fancy Girl with the aluminum tubes on the crank. I have a new one on my drawing board , been many years since I had one.
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Ray_K
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« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2016, 07:54:13 PM »

11-15-2016

Hello CG,

After reading your post I decided to throw together a Free Bird real quick, it took about 2 1/2 hours to build and she flys very well, I get about 40 secs to a minute from her, here are some close up pics of the drive and wing hook ups for you, pretty straight forward.

Cheers, Ray K.  Wink
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Ray_K
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« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2016, 07:56:40 PM »

11-15-2016

A few more.

The last one is a four winger of my own design that I want to try, should have pics of this one in a day or two.

Cheers, Ray K.
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cglynn
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« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2016, 08:44:58 AM »

Ray, thanks for the pics.  The free bird type mechanism looks like its pretty straightforward.  The one that I can't yet wrap my mind around is the biplane mechanism like Kaiser, White, and Harlan use.  From looking at the plans and some stuff I found on youtube, it looks like there is a separate connecting rod for each wing spar, and that the con rods for the upper wings are linked to one bend on the crankshaft, but at 180* to another.  Then the same for the lower wings, on another bend in the crank. 

I really just need to sit down with my Gitlow book and some balsa, and start trying some stuff.  I am sure if I worked at it for a few hours, I can figure it out. 

CG
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« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2016, 09:23:54 AM »

Chris,

 I look forward to seeing you build an Orni. We need more people flying them. I'd give you details on mine, but it's a design unique to me and I've never drawn plans for it. I still haven't decided whether it has competitive potential...did 4 or 5 minutes at USIC, far behind Larry's times.
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dslusarc
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« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2016, 10:02:35 AM »

Chris ,

You got it correct. It is just two single ornithopters on top of each other with different flap ranges. The upper one goes level and up only the lower down to level only. The 180 out of phase is why they are less jerky than singles but the do sway side to side some. Glad to see interest in other events. How soon until we get into that gym! 
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billdennis747
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« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2016, 10:06:43 AM »

I built an ornithopter once - Flutterby in Aeromodeller August 1969. It had four wings and flew over the garden fence to land in a pond. It was very simple and went well.
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cglynn
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« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2016, 11:05:43 AM »

Thanks for the response Don.  I have the paper work filled out and awaiting approval.  If all goes well, first meeting should be December 4th.  I will let you know.

 I just got around to opening my destroyed model box and checking out the carnage.  It wasn't so bad.  Wiped out all my F1D wings and stabs, but the motor tubes and booms are okay.  My LPP was destroyed, but needed a redesign anyway.  My F1L acquired a hole in the fin, but also needs a redesign.  About the only model that came out unscathed was my EZB, which while nice to have a flying model, also needed a rebuild.  This one weighs about 485mg, and I want one under 400mg.  Just started cutting wood last night, and am on my way there.

It was really hard to get motivated for the season with Kent not happening, but finally got the resolve to build for West Baden.  Since it is only a few months away, I figure I need to get building and testing. 

What do you think...quarter motors in the gym, flown to 20 feet for baden?

CG
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Art356A
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« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2016, 01:52:27 PM »

Anybody seen one of these before? Yes, it really flies.
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« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2016, 01:56:04 PM »



What do you think...quarter motors in the gym, flown to 20 feet for baden?

CG

And half motors for Rantoul!!! Wink Grin

Rey
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dslusarc
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« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2016, 07:57:24 PM »

Thanks for the response Don.  I have the paper work filled out and awaiting approval.  If all goes well, first meeting should be December 4th.  I will let you know.
It was really hard to get motivated for the season with Kent not happening, but finally got the resolve to build for West Baden.  Since it is only a few months away, I figure I need to get building and testing. 
What do you think...quarter motors in the gym, flown to 20 feet for baden?
CG

Yeah loosing Kent was a kick in the gut and really put me off building. My plans were for two day all day Midwest Indoor Champs. I did find out some RC guys now get into Kent for two hour sessions for $15 a pilot but they are paying $275 per hour to fly! So they need ~40 guys to cover the cost so probably a busy airspace, might be able to test fly off in the corner but fans/heaters may be on etc. So far my 2017 looks like EAA, West Baden, then Pontiac in May then done for the year :-(

I think 1/4 motors in the gym would be reasonable to simulate West Baden.

Don   

   
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dslusarc
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« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2016, 07:59:17 PM »

And half motors for Rantoul!!! Wink Grin
Rey

I wish Rantoul was about 2 hours closer to me! It would make going there routine.

Don
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Hepcat
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« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2016, 07:53:25 AM »

response to #13.
Art,
Yes, I have seen lots of those little Fokkers and they are almost always covered in red tissue... oh! er! did you mean the big aeroplane hanging at the back?  Well, I have never seen one in the flesh but it is instantly recognized as  a design of the great Dr. Alexander Lippisch and the plan had a worthy place in the 1938 Zaic Year Book.  Nicely made by the way.  Did you do it?
John
 
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Art356A
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« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2016, 02:09:56 PM »

That one (the blue one) was built 40-odd years ago. I transported it safely from New York to Florida by gently putting it inside the fuselage of the half-built Sonex, which went in the moving van. Right now, the balsa structure is feeling its age a bit. Crumbles if you look at it too hard.  There were a couple of issues with the Zaic plan, the most serious of which was the overall height of the fuselage, which Frank called out as 2 inches, and the 2 inch crankthrow. Must've been the metric to American conversion. I had already built the fuse (to the plan) and decided to build a new, taller, one rather than compromise the pushrod travel. If you Google "Lippisch Ornithopter" and then open the "Images" entry, you'll find a more accurate and complete plan, from a more contemporary Aeromodeller Annual. It shows a little more chord to the flappers and it gives the profile of the short rib, which Zaic omitted.

Outerzone has one called the "Flapper", by Art Horak, which appears to have been based on Lippisch's design with some improvements, like twin fins, a piano wire spar rather than bamboo,and only a forward motor rather than fore and aft ones. He set a couple of records with it. In the "Ornithopter Images" there's also Lippisch's Libellula, which is just a normal rubber sport job, but has a small flapping "wing" arrangement on the nose instead of a propeller.

Which begs the question, are these really ornithopters? Seems to me that the flapping part of the wings provide no lift at all, but only thrust, the same as a fish's tail, or a stern oar on a little boat. All the lift comes from the exaggerated undercambered airfoil on the fixed inboard part of the wing. When the outer panels push, the inboard ones lift. Isn't that cheating? 

a.

 

 
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My arms are so weak, it's like that pushup I did last year was a total waste.
adanjo
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« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2016, 12:34:24 AM »

These are my SOD (Single(?) Ornithopter Design) rule models.
One is a mono tractor and the other is a bipe tractor.

Aki
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adanjo
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« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2016, 12:37:59 AM »

My SOD (Single(?) Ornithopter Design) rule model that is a bipe pusher.

SOD rule is: 16" span, 3.1g, 50% stab, etc.

Aki
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« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2016, 11:23:33 AM »

Aki,

Beautiful models!  Thanks for sharing.

Brian T.
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cglynn
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« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2016, 10:07:47 AM »

Aki san.  That is exactly what I was looking for.  Thank you for sharing your amazing workmanship with us.

Chris
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