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Author Topic: Ikarus Bleriot III upgrade  (Read 635 times)
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farmerj
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« on: January 12, 2017, 03:27:14 PM »


I don't know if this is the right section, but here goes. My brother and I are updating some of the models in my dad's fleet that has been sitting for about 14 years. One is a foam park flyer - Ikarus Bleriot III. It was set up with a graupner speed 280 connected to a three blade prop with a gear drive, and Jeti JES 110 Speed controller. Not sure what gear ratio, but I could try to count/measure if needed. We installed an orange RC receiver with a 2s 800mah hobby king battery, and it went fine, although a little low on power. So, we tried it again with a 3s 850mah battery, and it went great for several short flights, until the motor stopped, and apparently overheated based on how hot it was after landing. I was hoping it might work after cooling off, but nope, seems to be fried. Did we over volt it with the 11.1 v 3s battery? Can someone recommend a better, modern battery and motor combination for this model? It was a lot of fun while it lasted.
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Konrad
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« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2017, 05:41:37 PM »

Loved the Icarus models. They flew well with the old 500 mAHh Sanyo cells 8.4v (7 cell). Your lack of power on 2 cell liposuction can most likely be traced back that they result in 7.4V. A change to higher pitch prop would have brought back the power (slightly more amp draw) and added the needed pitch speed to help the ring produce lift.  As to replacement power system I have to ask what are you willing to change, like an brushless ESC, firewall and motor mount?
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farmerj
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« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2017, 10:59:44 PM »

Konrad, basically everything is on the table - brushless motor and esc, and even changing the gear and prop arrangement.  There is no motor mount or firewall really.  The motor was held to the square aluminum tube fuselage with two narrow wraps of tape.  The gearbox in the existing set-up is basically a large cap that fits tight around the shaft end of the motor, with a large ring gear inside that engages a pinion on the motor.  From what I've learned so far (since I made the first post) about brushless, I would need an in-runner to have any hope of using the old gearing.  Or, would it be better to ditch the gears and go direct drive with an outrunner?   
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Konrad
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« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2017, 09:04:56 PM »

Yep, I’m partial to the inrunner myself. But they are often a problem in that changing the pinion gear can damage the pinion or the motor shaft. The only outrunners I’m aware of are of the brushless type. This means that you would need to change the speed controller to one that offers the commutation function. Normally called a brushless speed controller.
Assuming you want to stay with the 2 cell set up
What I’d try is to replace the burned up motor. I believe it was a Mabuchi. A lot of hobby dealers on Amazon sell them https://www.amazon.com/RS-380PH-Motor-by-Mabuchi/dp/B004OVD1CK
Find the numbers off of your burned up motor and try to replace it with a bit “Hotter”  (one with maybe one less wire wind on the armature), (AKA having a higher KV rating).

If using the same replacement motor use a prop with a bit more pitch (you can twist most plastic props with careful application of a heat gun). Remember the 2 cell lipo has less voltage than what the power package was first set up to have.

Now if going with a 3 cell set up it might be best to go brushless and stick mount such as these.
https://www.amazon.com/E-flite-EFLM1915-Outrunner-Stick-Mount/dp/B000BRQUJC

You might want to look for a low KV  motor to allow you to turn as large a diameter prop as practical using direct drive (normal for outrunners).  A motor such as this might fill the job https://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id=V450327&pid=B1688512
This motor should give you the performance you had prior to burning up the stock motor using a 9 x 4.7 prop

On two cells lipos and a 11x5 it should give you better than stock performance.

If moving away from stock power systems I strongly recommend you get an amp meter to help keep from over amping the motor and burning it up.
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Cut it twice and it's still too short!
farmerj
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« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2017, 10:16:20 PM »

Thanks for all the good info Konrad.  I decided to try an outrunner, and ordered this one: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-2730-brushless-motor-1300kv.html  , with a 10A brushless esc and several 8x4.5 and 9x4.5/4.7 props.  Curious to know what you think of the selection.  I'll post flight results.  The stick mount looked cool, but unfortunately too small for the 3/8" square tube on the Bleriot, and they don't seem to have any other sizes.
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Konrad
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« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2017, 10:43:22 PM »

Should work. Make sure to keep the amps in check like under 6 amps. So how are you going to mount the motor to the plane?
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farmerj
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« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2017, 11:03:14 PM »

Motor mount will probably be something like the plastic eflite deal, but plywood - maybe just parallel vertical sheets sandwiching the metal tube, with a firewall attached to the front edges above the tube.  Any recommendation for an amp meter?  I've not used one or even shopped.
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Konrad
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« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2017, 11:12:55 PM »

Strongly recommend an inductance DC clamp on style. Maybe something like this one https://www.google.com/shopping/product/3179315557609304194?lsf=seller:9119074,store:17601955052904717094&prds=oid:4589003113216007601&q=inductance+DC+amp+meter&hl=en&ei=i-p-WIH3E8vGjwO_z53ABQ&lsft=sid:IDx20141117x00001xlpla&lsft=gclid:Cj0KEQiAnvfDBRCXrabLl6-6t-0BEiQAW4SRUM_1ycvX77o-6tOe0h3xU-ZfMPVH9sM_wzGNcbZcPBgaAgu28P8HAQ

Make sure it can handle "DC" voltages. What is nice about these is that you don't need to break into the electrical circuit.
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Cut it twice and it's still too short!
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