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Author Topic: P-30 props  (Read 4099 times)
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skyrocket
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« on: February 06, 2017, 01:36:15 PM »

Do we still have to use the ramp provided with the prop or can I saw the ramp off and use a Garami style clutch?...I really hate all that plastic up front with a ramp.
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Bredehoft
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« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2017, 02:48:42 PM »

Per the rules on the AMA website:

1.4. The propeller shall be a commercially available plastic freewheeling propeller between 23 and 25 centimeters (9.05 and 9.84 inches) in diameter. Only the following changes will be allowed:

1.4.1. Flashing may be removed.

1.4.2. Balancing by the addition of weight to one blade will be allowed.

1.4.3. Enlarging the hole of the propeller hub will be allowed in order to accept a larger diameter shaft and/or a bushing cut from metal tubing.

I am not a lawyer (or an AMA CD), but to me - you cannot remove the ramp and legally fly in an AMA P-30 event.

--george
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danberry
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« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2017, 02:52:19 PM »

And I'm pretty certain that you cannot add a Garami style clutch to the prop.
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ram
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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2017, 02:54:17 PM »

And I'm pretty certain that you cannot add a Garami style clutch to the prop.


Agreed, but you can add a clutch to the propshaft.  Just don't modify the prop.

Rey
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skyrocket
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« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2017, 05:53:35 PM »

Thanks everyone...it is I suspected and I appreciate the prompt reply...case closed.
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NeilH
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« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2017, 05:57:11 PM »

The way I read it is that alt 2 and 3 are not allowed but the others are OK.

Neil
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skyrocket
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« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2017, 06:02:59 PM »

I like #6...similar to what I use with Old Timers...thanks for the tip...
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applehoney
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« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2017, 06:23:59 PM »

2 and 3 not legal in N. America but acceptable in other parts of the world.
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calgoddard
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« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2017, 08:42:30 PM »

If you have a hook-to-peg distance of approximately 19 inches in your P-30, and use a standard 6 x 1/8 inch 9.8 gram rubber motor (un-braided), a simple dog (L-shaped bend) on the forward part of the motor shaft will usually work just fine with the ramp, i.e. the P-30 prop will free wheel after the conclusion of the motor run.  The 19 inch hook-to-peg distance seems to be pretty typical in P-30 models.  I think that is the distance in all five of my P-30 models.

However, to be on the safe side, I recommend using one of the legal free-wheeling mechanisms.

That being said, I use the simple L-shaped dog on my Pirate P-30 with the 9 1/2 inch orange Chinese prop (from Volare Products) and it free wheels very reliably. See the attached picture.

The yellow Czech prop in the picture is equipped with a bail-type free wheeling mechanism from Volare Products, and it has never failed to free wheel.  It has the advantage of allowing rapid replacement of props.

In both cases I used the black plastic GizmoGeezer nose bearing assembly to allow for accurate thrust line adjustments.
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Tapio Linkosalo
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« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2017, 12:56:28 AM »


I've been a happy camper using the molded wedge on the front of the prop. Less than 1 flight of - maybe - 100 has had the prop bind due to motor bunching and pulling the shaft tight. It helps to have large enough diameter fuselage so that rubber does not bunch. In the other hand, for a releasing clutch the bunching rubber easily causes a "shaft run" when the motor unwinding is stoppedlong enough to a premature release the clutch. Here too larger motor tube helps.

One thing that is important for the operation is to bend the loop in the front end of the shaft so that the cross bar is trailing the shaft on the wedge. This way the torque/pressure loads onto the outer edge of the wedge, so that it holds firmly and does not easily slip. Nor wear the wedge prematurely.
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skyrocket
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« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2017, 08:17:55 AM »

ref #8 & #9...yep, that seems to be the way to go but I'm not crazy about the Gizmo-Geezer...being a Luddite, I like to make everything myself...thanks everyone!!
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danberry
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« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2017, 10:18:47 AM »

ref #8 & #9...yep, that seems to be the way to go but I'm not crazy about the Gizmo-Geezer...being a Luddite, I like to make everything myself...thanks everyone!!

The ramp freewheeler does a fine job.
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skyrocket
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« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2017, 06:29:11 PM »

yep...that's where I'm going...right now I'm working on a new P-30 with a short motor tube built up from 3/32" squares, geodetic, streamlined mated to a Carbon boom and the wing/stab from my Panther and a Chinese orange prop...9 grams ready to cover...I got the idea from those French 'coupes from the sixties...
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danberry
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« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2017, 09:39:01 PM »

yep...that's where I'm going...right now I'm working on a new P-30 with a short motor tube built up from 3/32" squares, geodetic, streamlined mated to a Carbon boom and the wing/stab from my Panther and a Chinese orange prop...9 grams ready to cover...I got the idea from those French 'coupes from the sixties...

Short motor tube?
What sort of motor are you gonna use?
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skyrocket
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« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2017, 09:59:56 PM »

1/16" multi-strand...I've been playing with 1/16" rubber in another ship and I like the brute power and this new one is just for experimenting with while I build
another Panther as a back up because the original is getting a little tattered and rebuilt so many times it is becoming an eyesore...P-30 is growing on me and
I like them almost as much as the Cherokee and Hepcat I fly...
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danberry
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« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2017, 11:09:20 PM »

Ooop! I meant length.
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skyrocket
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« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2017, 10:50:54 AM »

front end to hook equals 14 1/2" so far...it's coming along nicely and built the stab and fin this morning and will make up a kit of parts some time today or tomorrow
...pics later when I get things all covered...
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danberry
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« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2017, 12:23:02 AM »

Motor will be 15" or so? Or will you run a longer one maybe braided?
I'm interested in hearing how the prop handles the extra torque if you go with the short motor.
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skyrocket
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« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2017, 08:59:17 AM »

Yes I try to braid all my motors and depending on the total length of rubber at 9.5 grams and the length of the stirrup I use because I might have to make up special ones for the shorter motors...just working on joining the wing panels together now...so far I've kept all it light and the geodetics have kept it rigid and straight...the only problem I've faced is mating the CF boom to the fuselage with a block of balsa and keeping it straight and so a little bit of incidence crept in...we'll see because I've added 3 alternative positions for the wing to go back and forth...I'm pleased so far...
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skyrocket
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« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2017, 06:37:28 PM »

So I joined the wing panels together this afternoon and the dihedral came out too shallow....so I cut the panels out at the first geodetic bay each side and cranked in an additional 3/4" which brought the total dihedral up to 3 1/8" each side...the first 2 break dihedral I've made...will try to cover it this weekend...the finished fuselage came out at 13.8 grams...
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skyrocket
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« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2017, 01:38:03 PM »

I finished the new one last Friday...40.5 grams so I was under what I thought it would be...the up in the boom might be problematic and might have to add nose weight because the wing mount is at the farthest back position but we'll as soon as I can get to test it ...
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Bigbandito
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« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2018, 05:42:18 PM »

Quote
1.4.2. Balancing by the addition of weight to one blade will be allowed.

Does this mean no scraping or sanding to balance? [he asked, afraid of what the answer might be]
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applehoney
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« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2018, 06:57:04 PM »

That is so.  Sorry.....
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ZK-AUD
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« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2018, 07:20:10 PM »

There was some discussion about freewheels earlier on - here is my current approach,  though these photos are on a small scale model.  It's just a tube cross-drilled through a larger tube and sleeved to the shaft diameter with a small length of the smaller diameter tube.  The solder goes in through the front which hits the cross tube and shaft at the same time.  They've never let go on me.  I used to square lash the cross tube directly to the shaft and solder but this is fiddly and can let go sometimes.  This is much better.
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danberry
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« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2018, 08:48:28 PM »

Quote
1.4.2. Balancing by the addition of weight to one blade will be allowed.

Does this mean no scraping or sanding to balance? [he asked, afraid of what the answer might be]


Correct
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