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Author Topic: 1/10 Fokker DVII  (Read 17759 times)
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Monz
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« on: May 22, 2017, 04:26:10 PM »

Hello everyone  Smiley

Thought I'd start a thread here and see how it goes. I've been following a number of builds here but have missed interacting with some of you.

As the heading says, this'll be a DVII, a big one, for next year's Indoor Scale Nationals Open rubber class. Span will be 34" with the top wing having a chord of 6". I'm aiming for 150g without rubber or prop, so probably close to 185 - 190g flying. The weight limit is 200g so I'll have to careful as I go.

I'm using the three views and construction drawings from the Windsock Datafile Anthology #2 to build from (the actual DVII datafile is only available for £60, bit too heavy for my pocket) and it will be of a full size replica of Rudolph Starck's 'Li' of Jaste 35b which is in the National Museum of the USAF, there are some pretty good pictures of that aeroplane for me to work from.

I've become quite enamoured with the DVII after flying my little Herr version and with so many great schemes to choose from for future versions I might just become the 'Divs Masters of DVIIs'  Cheesy

Here are a couple pics of the subject:

https://media.defense.gov/2007/Oct/29/2000436263/-1/-1/0/071029-F-1234S-014.JPG

https://media.defense.gov/2007/Oct/29/2000436262/-1/-1/0/071029-F-1234S-015.JPG

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daveh
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« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2017, 04:36:38 PM »

Good to have you back Monz and looking forward to this build.

Dave
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Rich Moore
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« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2017, 05:10:49 PM »

Hey Monz! A nice big challenging one for indoor. Marvellous. 
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USch
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« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2017, 05:17:25 PM »

Welcome back Monz. Will follow with interest to see how you paint all these lozenges  Cheesy

Urs
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cvasecuk
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« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2017, 05:22:46 PM »

You haven't even started it and yet I am already thinking about the possibility of driving the 260 miles next year just to see it!
Ron
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« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2017, 05:33:18 PM »

Great to see you back ... look forward to the build  Smiley
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2017, 05:57:32 PM »

Welcome back! This forum needs you.
Great choice of model. Obviously it will look superb and if it flies half as well as your other DVII it'll be a double treat.

(But don't forget to add a pilot before you reach the 200g limit! Grin)
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Mark Braunlich
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« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2017, 07:49:45 PM »

Monz,
The scale drawing available through the link is 1:10 scale and very good.

https://airandspace.si.edu/sites/default/files/media-assets/Dwg_Karstens_20111116.pdf
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Mark
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« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2017, 08:13:58 PM »

This should be an interesting challenge - I'll be following with interest.

John
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Glenn (gravitywell) Reach
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« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2017, 08:25:10 PM »

It just amazes me that modellers build these large ships and fly them indoors!  Just amazing.  As always I look forward to watching you build and eventually fly this DVII.  One of my fav planes by the way! Smiley
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Glenn Reach
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« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2017, 06:53:57 AM »

All Monz build threads are highly motivating and informative so I'm very pleased to have the opportunity to observe. I was exceedingly impressed by the performance of your Herr version and to me even that seemed like a pretty big model for indoor rubber scale. It's a great subject for lightweight construction and I'm sure you can hit the weight you want - but at such a large scale the detailing is the devil, it can be one of those never-ending tasks!

Ink-jet printed tissue for the lozenge again?
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DavidJP
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« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2017, 07:36:24 AM »

The colour scheme you have chosen is chrateristically ambitious.. I shall now sit quietly and observe.  Glad you seem to be be OK. 
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g_kandylakis
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« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2017, 11:59:01 AM »


Ink-jet printed tissue for the lozenge again?

I do not know what Monz decides on that. She has repeatedly proven her airbrush skills,  so I would add to her challenge, covering with pre-sprayed tissue, using stencils for each colour. ..

The only problem might be, she still finishes it before the end of summer. .. That way we get to see it flying in Nijmegen. ..

George
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« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2017, 06:15:41 AM »

I'm sure she will confirm one way or the other in due course the covering intention for the new model, but if I recall correctly what she told me a few weeks ago correctly, the Herr one she is flying at the moment is inkjet-printed tissue. I was puzzled by how exceptionally smooth and even the multi-coloured finish was, which was what prompted me to ask the question.
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Monz
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« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2017, 03:45:21 PM »

Thanks everyone for the nice comments.

I've been thinking about various ways of doing the lozenge tissue and I'll mock up a few test pieces to see which will work best, though I think George's suggestion of painting each colour with stencils might just be th..... naaaaah! I'm nuts, but not that nuts!

The Herr DVII was laser printed tissue, which came out well initially but went much more transparent after sealing. I've used inkjet printed tissue before on a DVI which looked great, but wasn't sealed so I either need to buy an inkjet or figure a way to make the laser work. The issue with laser is the heat from the imaging drum activates the 'de-tacked' glue used to attach tissue to carrier making it very difficult to remove without tearing. The plus is it's waterproof. So I need to find an alternative method to attach tissue to carrier.

Or...

I've been thinking about trying clear decal sheet with the lozenge printed and then laid over the sealed tissue. Kinda reverse mylar. I've done large areas of decal over tissue before on the Extra which worked really well and was negligible weight wise, much less than paint would have been. I'm hoping that doped tissue with printed clear decal over will give just the right level of see-through-ness that the real fabric has. We shall see.
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Art356A
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« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2017, 04:06:15 PM »

Why don't you run it past Rob Wells (Crabby)? He used to make lozenge tissue in several different scales and patterns. He might have what you need.

art.
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Don McLellan
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« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2017, 04:10:37 PM »

Hi Monz,

First of all, great that you've got another building thread going.  Always fun to watch.  If you buy an inkjet printer, suggest getting an Epson.  The ink is waterproof.  Also, wondering if chalking the backside of the printed tissue would help with transparency.  (I've never tried printing tissue with a laser printer).

Don
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« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2017, 04:31:31 PM »

Just a wild-card thought: what about block-printing the lozenge one colour at a time onto one of the harder, whiter, shinier tissues with printer's inks and a big letter press? I did some woodcut and linto-cut printing a couple of years ago on a wide variety of paper and card stocks including some tissues that felt very similar to Esaki, and it worked well on the tissues. This was for artistic rather than modelling purposes but I'm sure it would be a possiblility for repeated patterns like lozenge.
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« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2017, 06:50:45 PM »

Thanks everyone for the nice comments.

I've been thinking about various ways of doing the lozenge tissue and I'll mock up a few test pieces to see which will work best, though I think George's suggestion of painting each colour with stencils might just be th..... naaaaah! I'm nuts, but not that nuts!

The Herr DVII was laser printed tissue, which came out well initially but went much more transparent after sealing. I've used inkjet printed tissue before on a DVI which looked great, but wasn't sealed so I either need to buy an inkjet or figure a way to make the laser work. The issue with laser is the heat from the imaging drum activates the 'de-tacked' glue used to attach tissue to carrier making it very difficult to remove without tearing. The plus is it's waterproof. So I need to find an alternative method to attach tissue to carrier.

Or...

I've been thinking about trying clear decal sheet with the lozenge printed and then laid over the sealed tissue. Kinda reverse mylar. I've done large areas of decal over tissue before on the Extra which worked really well and was negligible weight wise, much less than paint would have been. I'm hoping that doped tissue with printed clear decal over will give just the right level of see-through-ness that the real fabric has. We shall see.

You might want to consider covering with mylar if you're seriously considering decal for the lozenge pattern.  The decal sheet would attach to the mylar like decals and plastic models.  Just a thought!
Tom
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« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2017, 07:33:36 AM »

I thnk that's a good thought about mylar under decal film.

To build on those thoughts: From experience in the static modelling world I would expect that base white decal sheet would give much better results when overprinted than clear decal sheet.
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« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2017, 08:53:58 AM »

Hi Monique. based on your Fok DVI (Fratz) years ago you have what you need to make you own tissue. If your are concerned about opacity, and want a light weight solution, may I suggest lightly ghosting some white floral spray to the backside of your tissue before printing. I had good success in the past, although my initial goal was to save the whites behind the crosses. A serendipitous result was the near opacity of the printed tissue. I like the. stained glass effect lozenge has when light passes through it though. So much for that. But if opacity is what you are after.... anyway as Art mentioned I have lots of DVII files, and about 12 different patterns. I no longer sell it, but would be glad to assist you, but you seem to be very capable. I got an Epson after my HP died.
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« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2017, 10:47:39 PM »

Great to have you back Monique.  Looking forward to being inspired by your design and building skills.
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Monz
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« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2017, 04:44:26 PM »

Hi all, thanks for the comments/advice on the tissue issue.

I've used decals well over tissue in the past, so I'll do a few test frames to see. I've used mylar before but think I'd need a lot more practice on other models before using it on this thing. White decal sheet will be too opaque, so I think the clear over doped white tissue will give just the right feel of the full size fabric covering in terms of see-through-ness. I've also been studying the photos I have and I'm going to have to make my own pattern to print to get it to match the photos (thanks for the offer though Crabby).

I've made a bit of a start with one fuselage side drying. I'll start the next one over that shortly. First time I'm trying it this way too - I normally build them separately. This is all 3/32" balsa with a few bamboo skewers to simulate the round tube visible in the cockpit area.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff96/Monsts1/2C10DB4C-7218-40FF-AFD1-4CB31F2A18A3_zps2zlwvlao.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff96/Monsts1/E304235B-400A-4E02-9770-595E2621B894_zpso8yjakvm.jpg

1/10 Fokker DVII
1/10 Fokker DVII
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« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2017, 02:53:30 PM »

Crikey, how did I miss the start of this thread?  Welcome back Monz...

Andrew
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BG
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« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2017, 04:12:12 PM »

Monz,
On tissue and colour etc. I have found that printed tissue augmented with white chalk rubbed on the dull side comes out with a more opaque rich colour after a dusting with crylon or similar.

BG
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