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Author Topic: What Did You Do Airplane Wise Today?  (Read 114173 times)
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LASTWOODSMAN
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REAL PLANES HAD ROUND ENGINES AND TWO WINGS



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« Reply #1775 on: September 13, 2019, 10:49:01 AM »

     Working on the 20"  Osprey Glider fuse ...

Pic #1   3209  SNIP
Pic #2   3211  snip

LASTWOODSMAN
Richard
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OH, I HAVE SLIPPED THE SURLY BONDS OF EARTH ... UP, UP THE LONG DELIRIOUS BURNING BLUE ... SUNWARD I'VE CLIMBED AND JOINED THE TUMBLING MIRTH OF SUN-SPLIT CLOUDS ...
Smithy64
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« Reply #1776 on: September 13, 2019, 12:19:23 PM »

    Working on the 20"  Osprey Glider fuse ...

Pic #1   3209  SNIP
Pic #2   3211  snip

LASTWOODSMAN
Richard

Wow I love all the Heath Robinson support while it dries looks impressive. 

Neil

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Smithy64
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« Reply #1777 on: September 13, 2019, 12:23:05 PM »

I’ll have a look at some trimming advice ...

Long grass and no wind  Grin

Long grass is a problem round here virtually nowhere that isn’t a farmers field, most of the the place is short grass and heather and gorse which I had to retrieve the plane from several times.

Neil
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LASTWOODSMAN
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REAL PLANES HAD ROUND ENGINES AND TWO WINGS



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« Reply #1778 on: September 13, 2019, 12:30:35 PM »

Thanks Smithy     Smiley   -   I'm building it the right way now ...     Embarrassed   What is a Heath Robinson?

Gotta let the glue dry on this  1/16" sq  "longeron" balsa strip before adding the other.  Tough to get the first one to seat tight in the corners.

Pic 3213

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OH, I HAVE SLIPPED THE SURLY BONDS OF EARTH ... UP, UP THE LONG DELIRIOUS BURNING BLUE ... SUNWARD I'VE CLIMBED AND JOINED THE TUMBLING MIRTH OF SUN-SPLIT CLOUDS ...
Smithy64
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« Reply #1779 on: September 13, 2019, 01:20:55 PM »

Thanks Smithy     Smiley   -   I'm building it the right way now ...     Embarrassed   What is a Heath Robinson?


LASTWOODSMAN
Richard

Heath Robinson is a saying we have here about complex set ups of anything it comes from W Heath Robinson a cartoonist if you google his work you will see he did humorous cartoons of people using crazy set ups for lots of things.

Neil
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flyfac
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« Reply #1780 on: September 13, 2019, 02:17:55 PM »

Covered this Comet Pepper built from an excellent Volare Products kit.

Great job on the Pepper Scot! I have its more buxom sister the Sparky! it is a no fail plane and can take as much power as I have guts to throw at her. ALWAYS up for flying in any weather. The Pepper has been on my build list for a long time. For fun look at some of the flights Flyguy has gotten deep in the concrete jungle of NYC with his Pepper!

Thanks Crabby, 

I've had this one on the short list for a while.  Strong family resemblance between the Pepper and the Sparky, but the wing/fuselage juncture is a lot simpler on the Pepper. 

Looking forward to getting a prop on it and some air under the wings.

Best,

Scot Dobberfuhl
Forest Grove, OR
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flydean1
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« Reply #1781 on: September 13, 2019, 05:12:14 PM »

Good effort Smithy64.  No time is wasted.

I would need to see a video of your model flying.  From the looks of things, you may be under elevated.  That means, it could need more "nose up".  Hard to explain here.  If you could rubber band some straight balsa or other sticks under the wing and stab where they are parallel to the fuselage and can be sighted from the side.  They need to be at least 8 inches long.

Looking from the side, the stick on the stab should be "tilted down" relative to the stick on the wing.  Or--the wing stick should be "tilted up" compared to the stab.  How much, is difficult to say.  If I had a protractor, I would say 2 degrees difference as a starting point.  Some trim tabs, taped to the trailing edge of the stab may help with small adjustment.

One technique is to find some weight like a blob of modeling clay equal to the prop, and replace the prop and hanger and hand glide the model sliding the wing forward or aft until it glides smoothly.

Then replace the prop and hanger and start with a few winds like LASTWOODSMAN suggests. 
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Smithy64
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« Reply #1782 on: September 13, 2019, 05:27:40 PM »

Good effort Smithy64.  No time is wasted.

I would need to see a video of your model flying.  From the looks of things, you may be under elevated.  That means, it could need more "nose up".  Hard to explain here.  If you could rubber band some straight balsa or other sticks under the wing and stab where they are parallel to the fuselage and can be sighted from the side.  They need to be at least 8 inches long.

Looking from the side, the stick on the stab should be "tilted down" relative to the stick on the wing.  Or--the wing stick should be "tilted up" compared to the stab.  How much, is difficult to say.  If I had a protractor, I would say 2 degrees difference as a starting point.  Some trim tabs, taped to the trailing edge of the stab may help with small adjustment.

One technique is to find some weight like a blob of modeling clay equal to the prop, and replace the prop and hanger and hand glide the model sliding the wing forward or aft until it glides smoothly.

Then replace the prop and hanger and start with a few winds like LASTWOODSMAN suggests. 

Thanks for the pointers I will study what you say and see if I can work it out when I have the time next week.

Neil
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LASTWOODSMAN
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REAL PLANES HAD ROUND ENGINES AND TWO WINGS



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« Reply #1783 on: September 14, 2019, 08:49:35 AM »

     We were out on our early walk this AM and just missed the "Harvest Moon" full moon Moonset  at  7:22 am.  Tomorrow it will set at  8:21  AM,    so I should be able to see that one and it should be almost just as full  -  maybe a Red Moonset for a couple of pics   Grin  .
     But I did get the early sun, and took a few pics of our Spitfire and Hurricane Replicas in Jackson Park, Windsor, Ontario, Canada.   The leaves are starting to change color.    Time for some fall color flying in the Cricket Field of Jackson Park.    Smiley
     When the sun is lower in the Winter, I can then get some good pics of the underwing colors and hues, as the sun rises.

LASTWOODSMAN
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OH, I HAVE SLIPPED THE SURLY BONDS OF EARTH ... UP, UP THE LONG DELIRIOUS BURNING BLUE ... SUNWARD I'VE CLIMBED AND JOINED THE TUMBLING MIRTH OF SUN-SPLIT CLOUDS ...
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« Reply #1784 on: September 14, 2019, 12:58:13 PM »

Quote
All in all it was a bit of fun, not sure how much I learnt from it but I will see next time after repairs, the last flight went disastrously wrong, but I noticed the tail fin had loosened which explains the lack of flight and it was the only one I attempted to video, so I have a nice 2 sec clip of it plummeting into the ground.

Hi Neil

 Would this help ? see attached Jpegs. I searched our own HPA library for basic trimming and er we don't have any  Undecided other than within some aeromodelling books.
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Smithy64
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« Reply #1785 on: September 14, 2019, 01:04:01 PM »

    Working on the 20"  Osprey Glider fuse ...

Pic #1   3209  SNIP
Pic #2   3211  snip

LASTWOODSMAN
Richard


Thank you Lastwoodsman so much for taking the time, appreciated.

Neil



Neil
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Squirrelnet
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« Reply #1786 on: September 14, 2019, 01:09:12 PM »

Tackled a problem I've been meaning to sort out for while now.

I built a 130% KK Piper Family Cruiser to house a GM300 CO2 motor. It flew well, as the design does but I was a bit frugal in the wood sizes and the tailplane had the habit of doing a propeller impression while in storage. Each flying session was preceded by a de-warping wetting and pinning down to a board but eventually even the car journey to the flying site would return it to it propeller impersonating ways.

Radical action was needed so I've made a new tail using laminated 1/32" basswood for the outline. The shape was formed around a 1/8" balsa former after the basswood was subjected to a few minutes blasting with a wallpaper stripper. The balsa former was then cut up to form the 1/8" square strip for the main structure.

Hopefully this one will be less prone to warping
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« Reply #1787 on: September 14, 2019, 02:38:54 PM »


They look fantastic Mike I’m just about to attempt to make a prop not sure of the technique but will look online see if I can find something to help.

Neil

Thanks Neil - lots of good articles on prop carving (and many other subjects) in the National Free Flight Society Technical Library (link here:  https://freeflight.org/library/technical-library/#P)

Cheers,

Mike
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« Reply #1788 on: September 14, 2019, 03:23:24 PM »

Chris,
        I had this issue with a Heinkle 100 tail and fixed by putting thin cap strips over the ribs. This seems to lock the joints and resist twisting to large degree. I now do this on all my small rubber models and it has reduced warping. It gets a bit tricky when you separate the elevators and rudders. I also use laminated outlines with a bass core and balsa outlines. They stand a lot more abuse. What does the model weigh ands what span is it?
Ricky   
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Smithy64
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« Reply #1789 on: September 14, 2019, 03:30:42 PM »

Quote
All in all it was a bit of fun, not sure how much I learnt from it but I will see next time after repairs, the last flight went disastrously wrong, but I noticed the tail fin had loosened which explains the lack of flight and it was the only one I attempted to video, so I have a nice 2 sec clip of it plummeting into the ground.

Hi Neil

 Would this help ? see attached Jpegs. I searched our own HPA library for basic trimming and er we don't have any  Undecided other than within some aeromodelling books.

Sorry Squirrelnet I meant to thank you for the info but it all went pear shaped tired posting on the train home from work.

Neil
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Smithy64
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« Reply #1790 on: September 14, 2019, 03:33:47 PM »



Thanks Neil - lots of good articles on prop carving (and many other subjects) in the National Free Flight Society Technical Library (link here:  https://freeflight.org/library/technical-library/#P)

Cheers,

Mike

Thanks for the link I will study it before attempting the prop.

Neil
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Squirrelnet
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« Reply #1791 on: September 14, 2019, 04:05:07 PM »

 Hope its a help Neil

Quote
Chris,
        I had this issue with a Heinkle 100 tail and fixed by putting thin cap strips over the ribs. This seems to lock the joints and resist twisting to large degree. I now do this on all my small rubber models and it has reduced warping. It gets a bit tricky when you separate the elevators and rudders. I also use laminated outlines with a bass core and balsa outlines. They stand a lot more abuse. What does the model weigh ands what span is it?
Ricky   

 Good thoughts Ricky - the Piper is 28" span and weighs around 108g so quite light. I thought about cap strips but I'm hoping the added thickness in the structure and laminated outline on its own will do the trick. My new tail is already twice the weight of the old one but as I needed some tail weight that should be OK...hopefully . A slightly heavier model is preferable to one I can't fly because the tail keeps warping  Wink
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MKelly
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« Reply #1792 on: September 14, 2019, 04:16:34 PM »

A slightly heavier model is preferable to one I can't fly because the tail keeps warping  Wink

I'm dealing with the same problem on my Comet Navion.  I decided to try diagonal crossmembers and more robust LE and TE stock to (hopefully) get a more stable stab.

Mike
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« Reply #1793 on: September 14, 2019, 04:17:27 PM »

Chris,
        The continual battle with weight and stiffness. Don Spray has a Super Cruiser powered by a GM300 that goes indecently well with flights of up 90 seconds and looks very nice in the air. Not sure what his weight is but the span is similar. Could be a thermal catcher.
I look forward to hearing how it flies. I had a guided tour from Andy Hewitt at Rolls yesterday that was impressive.
Ricky
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Squirrelnet
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« Reply #1794 on: September 14, 2019, 04:22:46 PM »

Nice Ryan Navion Mike. Hope the diagonal structure cures your warps

Quote
I had a guided tour from Andy Hewitt at Rolls yesterday that was impressive.

Very Nice Ricky
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Squirrelnet
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« Reply #1795 on: September 15, 2019, 12:39:25 PM »

The tailplane structure is substantially stiffer. It's covered in water shrunk Esaki tissue and given a couple of coats of thinned non-shrinking dope. The added weight of the tail means it needed less tail weight so AUW is the same  Cheesy

 Hopefully that will do the job


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« Reply #1796 on: September 15, 2019, 07:08:47 PM »

Cute little YHWM Chris. I hope the tail issues that you and mike have been having are over.

John
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« Reply #1797 on: September 16, 2019, 03:55:04 AM »

This trick about cap strips on the tailplane  is something I have also used in the past and it obviously works, amazing to think Earl Stahl had it right all those years ago!!!!!
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« Reply #1798 on: September 16, 2019, 04:33:14 PM »

Went out to try and get the little plane I built to fly again, after the advice I removed the prop and got it to glide and added a replacement 5” prop instead of the 6” one I had. Couldn’t get it to fly it was actually worse than the first time, so I removed the prop again and concentrated on getting it to glide again, by adding some extra weight on the nose I managed to get it to glide amazingly well, but I’m at a loss to get it to fly with power.  Not sure how you adjust the prop thrust or do any of the trimming to get it to fly.

I will have to do some more reading as the instructions are like a foreign language I don’t understand all the terms or how to do the adjustments. A lot more for me to try to learn.

Neil
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #1799 on: September 16, 2019, 04:53:21 PM »

Neil

Use thin ply or cardboard shims to adjust thrust-lines.  Usually want some down and some right.  Deal with each methodically until the power from the rubber motor produces a gradually but not stalling initial climb (down-thrust) and doesn't roll the model over sharply to the left (right-thrust).  You want a left-hand circuit normally, not too tight nor too wide.  As the power runs down and the model levels out and then starts to descend, it'll be moving into more of a low-powered glide-phase.  You still want the model to be turning in a left-hand circle, which is achieved by having a bit of left-rudder (or left trim-tab) throughout.  If when test-gliding at the early stages this left-rudder has the effect of rolling the model to the left, you can counter this by having a small down trim-tab under the left wing (about 2/3rds of the way out beyond the wash from the prop) and/or a bit of plasticine on the right-hand wing-tip.

The whole thing is a bit of an art which comes from experience - but you can begin to learn what causes what by making small methodical changes only one thing at a time and observe what effect each of these have on the model as you proceed.

Jon

PS Also if you haven't already got these, then two essential books which will dramatically increase your understanding of free flight models are:

'Rubber Powered Model Airplanes' by Don Ross (available new on Amazon)

'Peanut Power' by Bill Hannan (ditto but second-hand and crazily expensive at present)
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