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Author Topic: Elias Aircoupe information request  (Read 5190 times)
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ZK-AUD
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« on: October 09, 2017, 07:34:48 PM »

Hi everyone,

This goes out especially to our American and Canadian friends:  I have learned that the sole remaining example this ideal potentially Lacey-beating 1928 aircraft actually still exists and is in un-restored storage at the Mid Atlantic Air Museum in Reading PA awaiting an 80hp Anzani 6 cyl..

I had a response from them this morning in which they have described its colour scheme however no photos - plenty of B/W pictures on the internet and a couple of colourised shots but nothing in actual colour.

I was wondering whether anyone has been to the museum and managed to get a colour shot of it they would care to post?

Many thanks for any help

Cheers, Mike
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« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2017, 12:56:14 PM »

Might just refresh this request here in case someone who could help may have missed it

Cheers, Mike
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« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2017, 01:32:32 PM »

Hi Mike,

Neither American nor Canadian, you 'll have to settle for Greek...

I confess I missed it...

The Aircoupe happens to be another of my long time favorite aircraft and I have done quite a lot of research on it over the years.

I hope I will manage to make an accurate 3-view drawing of it some time. So far I have built 2 peanuts and a pistachio based on Walt's plan, plus a 1/20 scale micro radio control, based on own provisional drawings.

Many years ago I too contacted the Museum. I had the good fortune to receive a rather tiny sample of the original covering. It is yellow. (yes another YHWM...)

I do not have it with me, so that I can give you a possible comparison.

Here is a video of my model one of its early flights back in 2012 (starts at 2:21, but the rest is interesting too  Grin)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM-YRGVj9po

The model is still well and flying, I am thinking of taking it with me To Nijmegen in a month. It can fly free flight, if I trim it for left circles and leave the transmitter on the floor  Grin. More than 10 circles...

George
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« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2017, 02:04:06 PM »

Thanks for that George.  Greek is fine with me thanks!!  I knew I couldn't be the only one afflicted with this aeroplane!  If at some point you were able to get a photo of the fabric sample if it is still in our possession or describe it from memory that would be most appreciated.  Also I see that you were able to determine the logo on the tail,  which I have not so far ...

I'm confident that this could be a Lacey beating peanut.  I built one a while back covered in condenser paper but not detailed or painted.  It was 4g and flew well.

Cheers, Mike
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« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2017, 01:22:32 PM »

Hi Mike,

A long german holiday meant that it was possible for me to come home for a few days...

The color sample is described by the Museum as "Army-Navy Yellow".

I have taken a picture of it, as true as I could, I hope the description helps a bit too. I tried to find my RAL color chart, to give an estimated RAL equivalent, could not locate it...

Here is a pic of the logo too... Also of the side lettering, both copied from the sales brochure.

By some sources it is supported that there were two different airplanes, the Aircoupe (enclosed version) and the Airsport (open version). This is what appears in the original sales brochure as well. but the photos there are heavily touched up.

In my opinion it was the one and same airplane, especially since the name Aircoupe appears in both the open and closed version.

Hope this helps...

BTW, you have made me thinking, it is about time I start it too, in the near future...

George
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« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2017, 01:28:57 PM »

And here is a real challenge...

If only I could find a better copy of this newspaper photograph, sent to me years ago in this rather poor quality...

I have no idea of the newspapaer name or exact date... My guess is 1927-1928. Any help from out there ?

George

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« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2017, 02:06:17 PM »

George you are an absolute star!  Thank you so much for that.  I promise a peanut worthy of your assistance in due course.

Cheers, Mike
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« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2017, 09:57:14 AM »

As just posted in Dan's Farman build thread, here is some info on the engine.

A 6 cyl. Anzani, but of a later date that that of the Carte Postale. Actually an american built engine, the Anzani-Brownback, with 80 h.p.

The attached images were sent to me by the Smithsonian NASM, always very helpful with weird research requests...

See also:
https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/anzani-brownback-10-105-x-140-2-row-radial-10-engine

https://books.google.gr/books?id=Z8PaTOr-jxYC&pg=PA41&lpg=PA41&dq=anzani+brownback&source=bl&ots=9FBqITpnmF&sig=92B4cWugHcN0N5bMjtInjr9qjkA&hl=el&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiZ5e-ovrTYAhVCLVAKHQnQDvUQ6AEIXzAL#v=onepage&q=anzani%20brownback&f=false
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« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2017, 09:57:43 AM »

...
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« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2017, 10:02:14 AM »

From Popular Aviation magazine, just found and saved...
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« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2017, 10:06:53 AM »

Also of interest maybe...

https://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?71177-Six-Cylinder-radial-aero-engines

Too much info for a peanut maybe, but better to have and choose, than not to have at all...

George
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« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2017, 11:14:23 AM »

Good stuff, George!

Cheers and Happy New Year.

Dan.
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« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2017, 11:20:41 AM »

Thanks George  Smiley

I'm glad the Anzani thing came up in Dan's thread. I had picked out what I thought were the best shots from the net for my drawings, but none of them were particularly in profile.
I've been caught out by the foreshortening and had particularly underestimated the stagger of the cylinders (also in part by other three views not showing much stagger)
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« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2018, 12:08:04 PM »

Started the build proper on this over the weekend after a week of making wing ribs.  Also got the tail feathers built
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« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2018, 09:17:03 PM »

Latest updates
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« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2018, 11:07:15 PM »

meant to add some commentary but ran out of time earlier.  I have departed from the Mooney plan a fair bit structurally.  split rib wing construction and after discussions with a valued modelling colleague I have built the fuselage in 1/32 square rather than 1/20.  The original plan doesn't get tip and fin outlines quite right so I have made them in accordance with the 3 view I have.  Also the nose side panels are clearly flat in the photos and not curved as per the plan.  The Anzani is fully exposed and not cowled.

weight-wise we are at 1.5g for total basic bones so far
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« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2018, 03:28:31 AM »

Very, very nice!

Dan.
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« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2018, 03:45:50 AM »

meant to add some commentary but ran out of time earlier.  I have departed from the Mooney plan a fair bit structurally.  split rib wing construction and after discussions with a valued modelling colleague I have built the fuselage in 1/32 square rather than 1/20.  The original plan doesn't get tip and fin outlines quite right so I have made them in accordance with the 3 view I have.  Also the nose side panels are clearly flat in the photos and not curved as per the plan.  The Anzani is fully exposed and not cowled.

weight-wise we are at 1.5g for total basic bones so far


Thats really Beautifully built. 'Hats off' for using 1/32" sq. too! I like the way you seem to have manipulated a little dihedral into the wing without making it stand out. (I seem to remember the original was flat)?
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« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2018, 04:31:30 AM »

Thanks for those comments.  Richard the dihedral is actually scale which is just one more attraction of this aircraft.   Don't know why we don't see more of them.   Laceys watch out here we come!!
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« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2018, 12:02:54 PM »

More progress last night - Sheeted in the top decking and put some stringers in under the nose to support the sheeting there.  Using 12 thou Micro-X I have lying around - good for keeping the weight down
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« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2018, 02:26:56 PM »

It's interesting how this plane compares to the Farman Carte Postale.  The Farman was built three years before and used the same engine.  The Farman had a lower aspect ratio wing but both planes were pretty low aspect ratio.  I suspect the Ercoupe design was influenced by the Carte Postale.

Marlin
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« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2018, 04:30:36 PM »

Well, what to do now ? Speak or keep quiet ?

Since it is still possible to change things without too much fuss, I might as well speak...

Beautiful and light structure, first of all. A joy to watch evolve.

There are however some errors, as there were in Walt Mooney's plan.

Side and bottom nose panels are all flat, no curvature.
Also, the top rear decking aft the cockpit is not a triangle, as viewed from the front, but rather a curved (elliptic) shape.

It is your decision now, Mike...

Yes, there was plenty of scale dihedral in this one...
http://www.earlyaviators.com/celias.htm

Finally, some interesting and unusual pictures, of the Aircoupe in a rather bard state, probably in the 1950s...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154994086127731&set=p.10154994086127731&type=3&theater&ifg=1
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154994090037731&set=p.10154994090037731&type=3&theater&ifg=1

Best regards,

George
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« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2018, 04:35:34 PM »

Always speak up George!  Actually I noted both of those things last night when I was studying the photos (after I had built it of course!) but it's a happy problem as sheeting the nose will be lighter and easier to build!  Hopefully I can determine sufficient detail to fix the rear deck shape (but I will)

Many thanks
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« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2018, 04:42:40 PM »

George those are amazing images  Thank you so much!!
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« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2018, 05:31:49 PM »

Mike, another side view picture. Open cockpit, yet Aircoupe on the fuselage. In my opinion there never was an "Airsport". Existing pictures with Airsport on the side show serious signs of retouching (ancient photoshop  Grin)

Compare this with the Airsport picture in earlyaviators.com. Clearly the same picture, only this is the original...
The logo on the door does look cooler though, I agree...

George
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